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Do electric cars emit fine dust when hitting brakes?

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Auto review of the 4th generation Prius Lion batteries cost was stated as $7.5K

Here is Toyota cost guide for older Prius (2nd gen) using NiMh. (And doesnt include installation labor charge.)

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1078138_toyota-hybrid-battery-replacement-cost-guide

Remember what I said. For a new Prius (2015), it's what's gonna be the cost of the battery from Toyota versus what the car is worth (ie, what you'd be able to sell it for). (Right now, you cant easily get a cost for the LIons w/o going into a dealer.)

http://ask.metafilter.com/277423/Prius-Replace-recondition-or-junk

If you read the auto news section in the paper, woman told how her kid stuck a silly putty mold-able toy on the Prius touch screen damaging it.

Cost to replace/repair was $4,500.
 
C1 said:
Auto review of the 4th generation Prius Lion batteries cost was stated as $7.5K

Here is Toyota cost guide for older Prius (2nd gen) using NiMh. (And doesnt include installation labor charge.)

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1078138_toyota-hybrid-battery-replacement-cost-guide

Remember what I said. For a new Prius (2015), it's what's gonna be the cost of the battery from Toyota versus what the car is worth (ie, what you'd be able to sell it for). (Right now, you cant easily get a cost for the LIons w/o going into a dealer.)

http://ask.metafilter.com/277423/Prius-Replace-recondition-or-junk

If you read the auto news section in the paper, woman told how her kid stuck a silly putty mold-able toy on the Prius touch screen damaging it.

Cost to replace/repair was $4,500.
Click to expand...

From your own link:
I have an '05 Prius and my mechanic is a hybrid only mechanic who says that they regularly see my year/generation of Prius with 300+K miles on original battery (mostly taxis and hardcore commuters). I live in a temperate climate, so that's a certainly a factor. But, before I sprang for a new battery, I'd get a second opinion unless your mechanic is a hybrid specialist or sees a lot of Priuses.

This generation of Prius is a workhorse. I'd replace the battery. Probably not from Toyota. The other two options would depend on the general condition of the car and how much money I had to devote to the car.
Click to expand...

From your other link:
Whatever you think of the prices above, it's worth reiterating that replacement batteries are the exception rather than the norm, and the vast majority of owners will never incur the cost of a replacement unit.
Click to expand...
A 2015 Prius is under warranty for 8-10 years. Your cost comparison is utterly worthless unless you know what prices will be after the warranty period has expired (or if you plan on buying one and putting 80-100k on it in a year or two).
 
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C1 said:
Auto review of the 4th generation Prius Lion batteries cost was stated as $7.5K

Here is Toyota cost guide for older Prius (2nd gen) using NiMh. (And doesnt include installation labor charge.)

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1078138_toyota-hybrid-battery-replacement-cost-guide

Remember what I said. For a new Prius (2015), it's what's gonna be the cost of the battery from Toyota versus what the car is worth (ie, what you'd be able to sell it for). (Right now, you cant easily get a cost for the LIons w/o going into a dealer.)

http://ask.metafilter.com/277423/Prius-Replace-recondition-or-junk

If you read the auto news section in the paper, woman told how her kid stuck a silly putty mold-able toy on the Prius touch screen damaging it.

Cost to replace/repair was $4,500.
Click to expand...

so you're using the replacement value of a new battery for a new car?

why do you have to replace it if it has warranty and is brand new?

also since it is brand new in 8 years when the warranty expires it'll be cheaper.
 
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True, the cost of replacement batteries over time appears to come down as the battery source(s) expand. (Remember though, LiON for 2015 is relatively new.)

Right now, the cost of replacing a battery is stated in reputable journals as equivalent to an engine rebuild. Battery longevity is a function of how the car is driven with frequent hard acceleration & braking resulting in reduced life cycle.

Effectively though, it is stated in the literature that you cant get nothin for a hybrid with a dead battery.


SiouxO Posted: 6/27/2013 12:18am PDT
I have a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid that was serviced at a dealer in Illinois before I shipped the car to Hawaii. The dealer in Illinois commented what good shape my car was in for 125,000 miles. Three weeks later when my car arrived the hybrid battery was dead and the Toyota dealer in Hawaii offered me $500 for my car that was valued at $11,600 (Edmunds Blue Book) before I shipped it!
That is not a typo…….Five HUNDRED dollars for a car in otherwise good shape…good tires, filters, belts air conditioning, power windows, power seats, sun roof, leather seats, xm radio…..
I'm sickened tat I spent $1,800 to ship a car now worth $500. Never again a Toyota.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...ath-what-happens-when-your-prius-battery-dies
 
C1 said:
True, the cost of replacement batteries over time appears to come down as the battery source(s) expand. (Remember though, LiON for 2015 is relatively new.)

Right now, the cost of replacing a battery is stated in reputable journals as equivalent to an engine rebuild. Battery longevity is a function of how the car is driven with frequent hard acceleration & braking resulting in reduced life cycle.

Effectively though, it is stated in the literature that you cant get nothin for a hybrid with a dead battery.


SiouxO Posted: 6/27/2013 12:18am PDT
I have a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid that was serviced at a dealer in Illinois before I shipped the car to Hawaii. The dealer in Illinois commented what good shape my car was in for 125,000 miles. Three weeks later when my car arrived the hybrid battery was dead and the Toyota dealer in Hawaii offered me $500 for my car that was valued at $11,600 (Edmunds Blue Book) before I shipped it!
That is not a typo…….Five HUNDRED dollars for a car in otherwise good shape…good tires, filters, belts air conditioning, power windows, power seats, sun roof, leather seats, xm radio…..
I'm sickened tat I spent $1,800 to ship a car now worth $500. Never again a Toyota.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...ath-what-happens-when-your-prius-battery-dies
Click to expand...

http://imgur.com/gallery/j8Bcp

Probably a $10 repair.

You "cant get nothin" for a regular car with a bad engine either.
 
C1 said:
True, the cost of replacement batteries over time appears to come down as the battery source(s) expand. (Remember though, LiON for 2015 is relatively new.)

Right now, the cost of replacing a battery is stated in reputable journals as equivalent to an engine rebuild. Battery longevity is a function of how the car is driven with frequent hard acceleration & braking resulting in reduced life cycle.

Effectively though, it is stated in the literature that you cant get nothin for a hybrid with a dead battery.


SiouxO Posted: 6/27/2013 12:18am PDT
I have a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid that was serviced at a dealer in Illinois before I shipped the car to Hawaii. The dealer in Illinois commented what good shape my car was in for 125,000 miles. Three weeks later when my car arrived the hybrid battery was dead and the Toyota dealer in Hawaii offered me $500 for my car that was valued at $11,600 (Edmunds Blue Book) before I shipped it!
That is not a typo…….Five HUNDRED dollars for a car in otherwise good shape…good tires, filters, belts air conditioning, power windows, power seats, sun roof, leather seats, xm radio…..
I'm sickened tat I spent $1,800 to ship a car now worth $500. Never again a Toyota.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...ath-what-happens-when-your-prius-battery-dies
Click to expand...

I honestly have no idea why ANYONE would ship a car from Illinois to Hawaii. Do you really want to know why the dealership offered him/her $500 for the car? Because it is from the rust belt and will be harder for the dealer to sell. Car dealerships will always offer you the least possible amount they can for a car, especially if they can find something wrong with it and bonus for them if it's something they can easily fix. It's what they do. Get it fixed and sell it yourself. SiouxO is a moron.

By the way, cars have been "throw aways" since the mid 1970s. Chrysler sold nearly half a million of those crappy Reliant and Aries K-cars in the 1980s but how many of them do you see on the roads these day? Almost nil. I bet junk yards are full of them if they haven't been crushed into beer cans by now.

How long do you think someone will keep putting money into fixing a 15 year old Chevy Cruze with 200k miles on it? Throw away. Yet people still covet those Honda Insight hybrids from the late 1990s.

Basically, you've been completely wrong about everything you've posted in this thread.
 
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jlee said:
http://imgur.com/gallery/j8Bcp

Probably a $10 repair.

You "cant get nothin" for a regular car with a bad engine either.
Click to expand...

This one is more a function of the service not being equipped to handle battery diagnosis. In warranty, "swap the battery pack and send to the factory for refurbishment" is a reasonable answer for any battery problem. Out of warranty "trash the battery pack, and buy a new one" isn't unless there is a *hefty* discount available for the core, which it sounds like there wasn't which is little silly in an NiMH battery since the materials are reasonably valuable (though I could be wrong on the value in comparison to the battery)
 
C1 said:
Hybrids are throw-aways.

...bullshit...

Knock the bull shit off.
Click to expand...

Please take your own advice, particularly your next two posts.

OP: I am not going to read your link, as electric vehicles rely less on friction brakes (not breaks, BTW) than ICE ones. Even a Toyota Prius, which has very lackluster regen compared to proper BEVs, will have friction brakes that outlast an ICE vehicle's of similar weight.

The rest is up to the driver. A shitty driver who floors it to the next red light to stomp on the brakes is going to be emitting more fine dust, at least the electric vehicle will be able to absorb some of this moron's bad driving habits in the form of electricity, that much less energy which has to be turned into dust and heat by the friction brakes.

edit: read the article, it's the usual quick click-bait blurb with zero journalism. The author seems to have never driven an electric car, or doesn't realize that regenerative braking from the motor causes less wear on the friction brakes. Had they went in to how some electric generation methods are more dirty than just burning gasoline in an ICE vehicle with emissions controls, they might have had a point. It would be a well beaten dead horse of a point, but still a modicum of truth to this "article" would have been much better than the drivel the unnamed author put out.
 
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Why bother replacing a whole battery when only a few cells just need to be replaced. And given how enthusiastic and borderline murderously obsessive greenies are about saving the environment, they WILL do whatever it takes to reduce the next emission generated from making that Li-ion cell.
 
dirtboy said:
I have an electric car and rarely use the brakes due to regenerative braking... author is clueless.
Click to expand...

Remember, there is this group of people that hate alternate energy and the lefties that promote it. This group is constantly trying to spin hearsay into facts that verify there bias against alternate energy. The reporter that wrote the story obviously knows nothing and took the word of one of these Luddites and crafted a hit piece that bares no relation to the real world.

Hybrids are a bit heavier and that could cause more tire wear, but does the actual tire life stats bare that out? With hybrids deriving power from both an engine and an electric motor the power output and torque tends to be smoother which should reduce tire wear. The whole brake nonsense is, well nonsense!


Brian
 
Brian Stirling said:
Remember, there is this group of people that hate alternate energy and the lefties that promote it. This group is constantly trying to spin hearsay into facts that verify there bias against alternate energy. The reporter that wrote the story obviously knows nothing and took the word of one of these Luddites and crafted a hit piece that bares no relation to the real world.

Hybrids are a bit heavier and that could cause more tire wear, but does the actual tire life stats bare that out? With hybrids deriving power from both an engine and an electric motor the power output and torque tends to be smoother which should reduce tire wear. The whole brake nonsense is, well nonsense!


Brian
Click to expand...

With instant torque on tap from an electric motor, I would argue that if anything you'd see slightly higher tire wear. However, the difference in wear from "normal" acceleration rates is so small that it's an utter waste of anybody's time to even be thinking about it, let alone arguing on the internet.
 
jlee said:
With instant torque on tap from an electric motor, I would argue that if anything you'd see slightly higher tire wear. However, the difference in wear from "normal" acceleration rates is so small that it's an utter waste of anybody's time to even be thinking about it, let alone arguing on the internet.
Click to expand...

I got about 40,000 miles out of the first set of tires on my Camry Hybrid which is more than I got out of the first set of tires on my Maxima when it was new. The Camry weighs about 200lbs more than the Maxima and they are very similar in size and classification. Maxima HP was rated at 240hp IIRC and the Camry Hybrid is rated at 205hp. 0-60 Maxima was approx. 6 seconds. 0-60 in the Camry Hybrid is 7 seconds. Night and day difference in fuel economy. 😉
 
JulesMaximus said:
I got about 40,000 miles out of the first set of tires on my Camry Hybrid which is more than I got out of the first set of tires on my Maxima when it was new. The Camry weighs about 200lbs more than the Maxima and they are very similar in size and classification. Maxima HP was rated at 240hp IIRC and the Camry Hybrid is rated at 205hp. 0-60 Maxima was approx. 6 seconds. 0-60 in the Camry Hybrid is 7 seconds. Night and day difference in fuel economy. 😉
Click to expand...

Were the tires identical? 😛
 
I had to replace the hybrid battery on my 2001 Insight a few years back. It was $1100 for a new battery. Alternatively I could've replaced the one or two cells that had issues for about $60 and some labor. I decided I might as well get a new one. The original had 170,000 hard miles on it and was 11 years old at the time.

ALSO - the car ran fine with a defective battery. It was just slower to accelerate and didn't have auto stop. It still could do 90 on the freeway. The car was getting 50 MPG when I had a bad battery. It was worth replacing because it's much quicker with the battery due to the gearing on the car. This isn't an EV but gives an example of hybrids.
 
I bet if you traced it far enough, you'd find Koch brothers ALEC money behind this garbage information.
 
jlee said:
With instant torque on tap from an electric motor, I would argue that if anything you'd see slightly higher tire wear. However, the difference in wear from "normal" acceleration rates is so small that it's an utter waste of anybody's time to even be thinking about it, let alone arguing on the internet.
Click to expand...

I agree, but the thing is folks that drive hybrids tend to be less heavy footed than others -- not 100% of the time, of course. There are hybrid owners that do run the piss out of there cars, but on average they tend to be less heavy footed than others.

But, this story was about brakes and the idea that a car that achieves a significant amount of braking via regenerative braking that doesn't use the brakes at all would be harder on brakes and produce more brake dust a shear lunacy. But, there are a lot of lunatics out there so...


Brian
 
JulesMaximus said:
They were pretty close actually right down to the size.

Maxima had Bridgestone Potenza 225/55-17 (these tires were crap in the wet)
Camry had Bridgestone Turanza 215/55-17 (not a great tire either)
Click to expand...

One of those is a high performance tire. The other is a touring tire -- that explains the life difference. 🙂
 
tweakmonkey said:
I had to replace the hybrid battery on my 2001 Insight a few years back. It was $1100 for a new battery. Alternatively I could've replaced the one or two cells that had issues for about $60 and some labor. I decided I might as well get a new one. The original had 170,000 hard miles on it and was 11 years old at the time.

ALSO - the car ran fine with a defective battery. It was just slower to accelerate and didn't have auto stop. It still could do 90 on the freeway. The car was getting 50 MPG when I had a bad battery. It was worth replacing because it's much quicker with the battery due to the gearing on the car. This isn't an EV but gives an example of hybrids.
Click to expand...

And those cells might even have been able to be revived without replacement.

Over time, battery packs get out of balance, with some cells being at higher or lower states of charge than others. You're limited to the capacity difference between the highest and lowest cells, and most hyrbrids have little to no ability to rebalance their packs.

My battery was misbehaving recently. It seemed weak, would discharge quickly and I got frequent recalibrations. So, I spent $30 at Radioshack and on eBay and built a battery balancer. After 48 hours of trickle charge, bringing all of the cells up to full, it feels like a new battery. Where I could empty the battery before with 2-3 brisk 0-60's, I can now lean on it heavily for almost 15 minutes before it hits zero.

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By doing this, you can get YEARS of more useful life out of a battery. This works as well on a Toyota bettery as it does on a Honda, and presumably just as well on any other.
 
JulesMaximus said:
200lbs isn't going to make much difference in wear even if they were the exact same tire.
Click to expand...

Nope, it's not. But you do realize that one of your cars had soft sticky tires that wear quickly, and the other had touring tires that don't wear quickly..? 😕

I guess I'm not quite sure what exactly it is we're discussing. 😛
 
jlee said:
Nope, it's not. But you do realize that one of your cars had soft sticky tires that wear quickly, and the other had touring tires that don't wear quickly..? 😕

I guess I'm not quite sure what exactly it is we're discussing. 😛
Click to expand...

No, I realize that but it's a moot point anyway.

We're discussing how wrong C-None is. 😉
 
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