Do crime statistics justify prejudice in policing? And what is the solution to the discrepancies?

[UglyCasanova]

Should police be blind to ethnicity or do crime statistics justify more targeted policing? Someone made a post in the "Existing while black" thread which had some interesting stats, I looked it up and it looks accurate. If one ethnicity commits far more crime per capita than others should police be blind to that fact or is a more targeting policing effort justified? And what is the solution to the vast discrepancies?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

According to the US Department of Justice, African Americans accounted for 52.5% of all homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with European Americans 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for African Americans was almost 8 times higher than European Americans, and the victim rate 6 times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of European Americans victims killed by European Americans, and 93% of African Americans victims were killed by African Americans.[49][50][51]​

​

So the reality is that an ethnicity that is 13% of the population accounts for 52.5% of homicides. There’s various reasons for that, poverty being cheif among them, but no matter the reasons the reality is they are way more likely to commit murders. And the fact that 93% of the blacks that are killed are murdered by other blacks it’s obvious that it’s a problem internal to their communities.

Personally I think that yes it should be taken into account, it would be foolish not to. Police should be working with these communities to be more ingrained in them and work to actually serve and protect instead of police and arrest.

What’s causing the discrepancies though? Is it purely poverty? Does culture play a part in it?

 

[fskimospy]

Government trying to counteract discrimination against black people in employment? RACISM.

Government targeting black people for arrest? SOUNDS GOOD.

Odd how the Totally Not Racists on here always somehow decide the Not Racist answer is to do the thing that’s bad for black people.

 

[senseamp]

I thought conservatives believed in individual responsibility, but apparently it's racial group responsibility.

 

[senseamp]

Are you also OK with affirmative action based on race? Or you think that it's foolish for police to not take race into account, but it's foolish for colleges to take it into account. You should at least be consistent if you go down that rabbit hole.

 

[alcoholbob]

Well, a lot of black ex-pats mention feeling safer in Asia than in the U.S, mainly due to police interactions. The thing is, crime rates are affected by a ton a variables. However, that doesn't justify racism or police brutality, you should still treat every person as an individual. That vast majority of people are not criminals, and treating people differently based on race is just guilt by association. I'm sure cops in Asia are aware of different crime rates by ethnicity but don't go around harassing people based on race, since it's not a crime fighting strategy, it's just pointless racism.

Race based policing is about as low resolution of a governing strategy as affirmative action is.

 

[ch33zw1z]

No, full stop. Then you have your flawed logic, where the numbers come from the same system where systemic racism has been used to generate those numbers.

 

[pmv]

OP sounds extremely disengenuous to me.

But taking it at face value. If one is concerned purely with "results" for policing, then one needs to take into account the social effect, and consequences for police-community co-operation, that targeting by race is going to have.

I don't think there are any solutions in terms of policing, though, the problem is much bigger than that. It's above a cop's pay-grade, so to speak.

 

[brycejones]

Lol just saw why the OP started this thread. Stories of racist incidents against blacks don’t move him but a troll post from an alt account does.

#totallynotracist

 

[UglyCasanova]

Government trying to counteract discrimination against black people in employment? RACISM.

Government targeting black people for arrest? SOUNDS GOOD.

Those are great points and thinking about it one would need to agree with both or neither. I think I’m going to go with neither, police are far too heavy handed their policing which only causes distrust in the communities they police. For hose communities to realize they are being policed based on skin color alone would rightly cause tons of anger towards the police.

So no, not a good idea even if the statistics are there to justify it. But why are they though 6 times more likely to commit homicides for instance?

 

[UglyCasanova]

In fact I’m not only gonna not kind of side with police shouldn’t do it, I’m 110% gonna side with they shouldn’t. I guess when I posted it last night it was sparked by a stat claim in a different thread and I hadn’t thought it through well. The police should not be profiling by skin color at all, ever.

But now the more interesting question is why the stats are the way they are in the first place.

 

[soulcougher73]

Poverty, culture, racism, racial inequality , etc. many factors why the rate is higher among blacks. We should work to address and fix those issues.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Poverty, culture, racism, racial inequality , etc. many factors why the rate is higher among blacks. We should work to address and fix those issues.

working to remediate the situation promotes racism - Republicans

oh well, nothing to be done.

 

[ch33zw1z]

But now the more interesting question is why the stats are the way they are in the first place.

Maybe just something else you haven't thought through either. Hint: systemic racism

 

[feralkid]

OP's back on the ManicTrain.

 

[Fenixgoon]

OP's back on the ManicTrain.

perfect zoidberg usage!

 

[blankslate]

And what is the solution to the vast discrepancies?

Economic Justice is imho the true solution to the discrepancies.

MLK had started to turn his focus to this subject (as well as an anti-war message) before he was assassinated.

"This country has socialism for the rich, and rugged individualism for the poor."

Martin Luther King Jr. wasn't the first to express such thoughts but he recognized the Truth of it.




_________

 

[UglyCasanova]

That’s a good quote and very true.

 

[soulcougher73]

working to remediate the situation promotes racism - Republicans

oh well, nothing to be done.

Darn. Foiled again. Those dastardly republicans. Always getting away with “oh well, too hard, nothing can be done”

 

[HomerJS]

I will answer the question this way. Suppose like stop and frisk law enforcement started stopping 50 year old white males on the streets outside banks and brokerage houses, searched their papers, computers and storage. Walked them back up to their office and start a random search of their files looking for violations of law.

That program would last 24 hours before the phone calls are made to the right person.

I picked 50 year old white male because it fits the profile of people who commit financial fraud that cost this country far more money then brown people ever could.

 

[UglyCasanova]

So you do agree that profiling makes sense?

 

[HomerJS]

So you do agree that profiling makes sense?

I'm saying if profiling by race makes sense why aren't white guys profiled?

 

[UglyCasanova]

I'm saying if profiling by race makes sense why aren't white guys profiled?

They are (or would be) if police cared about financial crimes. Unfortunately they don’t though.

 

[UNCjigga]

In fact I’m not only gonna not kind of side with police shouldn’t do it, I’m 110% gonna side with they shouldn’t. I guess when I posted it last night it was sparked by a stat claim in a different thread and I hadn’t thought it through well. The police should not be profiling by skin color at all, ever.

But now the more interesting question is why the stats are the way they are in the first place.

Statistics can be misleading. Do the stats really mean that blacks commit more crime per capita, or are charged/convicted with more crimes per capita? How do you control for biases within the justice system that lead to more charges/convictions for blacks vs. non blacks? What difference does access to private legal representation vs. public defenders make?

If we peel back these stats and look at other factors (I.e. socioeconomic class aside from race) do the stats between whites and non whites converge at lower income levels? One only needs to look at the discrepancies in blacks vs. non-blacks for minor drug offenses to see the bias at work (I.e marijuana possession/drug paraphernalia charges). He’ll, just look at the current Administration and how many white officials are refusing subpoenas, or even how white men accused of rape are treated to see that white & white collar crime is rarely charged or enforced, or results in sweet plea deals with no criminal record from a stats point of view.

 

[Paratus]

I'm saying if profiling by race makes sense why aren't white guys profiled?

They really should be. White men are over represented in white collar crimes.

ABSTRACT: Any serious survey of the evidence on white collar crime offenders lends strong support to the proposition that the class- race-gender construct structures criminal opportunities and shapes criminal behavior. Class-advantaged white males in particular are uniquely situated to take advantage of an extraordinary range of opportunities to commit the most substantial forms of corporate and occupational crime. Conversely, class-disadvantaged nonwhite females are unlikely to be so situated. Some criminologists have argued that the advantaged have stronger deviant motivations, enjoy greater deviant opportunities, and are subject to weaker social controls than the disadvantaged and the powerless. Anthony Harris (1991) has suggested that upper-class whites and underclass blacks may well have in common a pronounced lack of fear about committing crime, in the one case due to a sense of immunity and in the other a relative indifference to the consequences. The victims of white-collar crime, particularly that which produces hazardous products and corporate practices, are often minorities, women, and the poor. 51 references



Abstract and Keywords
Our knowledge regarding white-collar offenders has increased substantially since the time of Edwin Sutherland. A considerable percentage of white-collar offenders are gainfully employed middle-aged Caucasian men who usually commit their first white-collar offense sometime between their late thirties through their mid-forties and appear to have middle-class backgrounds. Most have some higher education, are married, and have moderate to strong ties to community, family, and religious organizations. White-collar offenders usually have a criminal history, including infractions that span the spectrum of illegality, but many do not overindulge in vice. Recent research examining the five-factor personality trait model determined that white-collar offenders tend to be more neurotic and less agreeable and conscientious than their non-criminal counterparts. Type A personality research could hold promise, but it has yet to be thoroughly examined.

And of course white men have committed most of the mass shootings in this country.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

As a middle aged white guy I can tell you that there are parts of white culture that glorify, greed, guns, and violence.

 

[PJFrylar]

This is an unbelievably complex issue. If you want a real answer on it, I suggest you do hard research. This situation is centuries upon centuries of history in the makings - there is no easy and quick answer. I've seen enough to realize the whole "race" concept is bullshit. Ignore "race" and look into cultures, while you do it - think of things as just different instead of better and worse. Think of why things got the way they are. There are incredibly smart people who spend their whole lived studying this kind of shit - we won't answer it in this thread. It is the entirety of our history as a human race.. I propose we try to move past what got us here and just try to make things right.

As for genetics ... what is it like 97% similar in DNA to rats? Humans of all races are within that constraint, with basically as much variability between members of the same race versus people of different races. Nature versus nurture? It's nurture.