Do British Muslims really pose a threat to that country and its traditional values?

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Lurching toward radicalism
The homegrown plot to blow up transatlantic flights has intensified fears that the 1.6 million Muslims in Britain are rejecting political tolerance and free speech for a violent, radicalized version of Islam. Do British Muslims really pose a threat to that country and its traditional values?

Some answers are provided by the most comprehensive survey to date of Muslim opinion in Britain. And the results from NOP Research, broadcast by Channel 4-TV on August 7, are startling.

To begin with, 50% say that 9/11 was a conspiracy by the American and Israeli governments -- more than twice as many as those who say it was not a conspiracy. Meanwhile, one in four British Muslims believes that last year's 7/7 attacks on London were justified because of British support for the U.S.-led war on terror.

When asked, "Is Britain my country or their country?" one in four say it is not their own. Thirty percent of British Muslims would prefer to live under Sharia (Islamic religious) law than under British law. Half of those who express a preference for living under Sharia law say that, given the choice, they would move to a country governed by these laws.

Twenty-eight percent dream of the U.K. becoming a fundamentalist Islamic state, which comports with last year's Daily Telegraph newspaper survey that found one-third of British Muslims believe Western society is decadent and immoral and that Muslims should seek to end it.

The news is no less alarming on the question of freedom of speech. Seventy-eight percent support punishment for the journalists who earlier this year published cartoons featuring the Prophet Mohammed. Sixty-eight percent support arrest and prosecution for those British people who "insult Islam." When asked if free speech should be protected, even if it offends religious groups, 62% of British Muslims say it should not be.

According to NOP Research, "hardcore Islamists" constitute 9% of the British Muslim population. A slightly more "moderate" group is comprised of "staunch defenders of Islam." This second group comprises 29% of the British Muslim population. Young Muslims are significantly more likely than older Muslims to hold this position and, tellingly, are twice as likely as older Muslims to reject the democratic process.

The Muslim threat to British security is so severe that London's assistant police commissioner, Tarique Ghaffur, has called for an inquiry into the radicalization of young Muslims. Ghaffur has observed "a generation of angry young people vulnerable to exploitation."

The predictable sociological explanation is that the extremists are the victims of social exclusion. But the NOP survey found no significant difference in political and religious attitudes by social class. Upper- and middle-class Muslims are as likely to be radical defenders of Islam as lower middle class and poorer ones.

Before the London bombings, British intelligence services estimated that 1% of British Muslims either support or are involved in terrorism. It seems improbable that there are really 16,000 potential Muslim terrorists in the U.K.: This is a mainly peaceful and productive immigrant population. But the number prepared to act against their own country is still significant: The British government has learned that, in recent years, 3,000 British Muslims have returned home from al-Qaeda training camps.
*rubs his chin* Well, uh. Yeah. The only thing that really shocked me was the part I bolded.

As the article says on page two, score another one for the melting pot. The only proper way to treat immigration is to insist: New country first, everything else second. Don't like it - leave. Gotta hand America credit where its credit is due.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
When asked if free speech should be protected, even if it offends religious groups, 62% of British Muslims say it should not be.

Pretty scary statistic there. It is this kind of attitude that is the Enemy of western civilization.
 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
765
0
0
What??? Bush was wrong? Muslims aren't freedom loving and want to hold hands with Jews?

This is not news. Everyone should know these facts by now.

Sixty-eight percent support arrest and prosecution for those British people who "insult Islam."

:disgust: Too bad I'm not British, otherwise I'd insult away.
 

5150Joker

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2002
5,549
0
71
www.techinferno.com
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
When asked if free speech should be protected, even if it offends religious groups, 62% of British Muslims say it should not be.

Pretty scary statistic there. It is this kind of attitude that is the Enemy of western civilization.



Funny, if you say anything remotely negative about Jews or Israel you're instantly labeled an anti-semite and people go for your jugular. Look at poor old Mel Gibson and the public flogging he got just for uttering some nonsense while he was drunk no less. There's already active censorship about anti-Jewish/Israel speech, it should extend equally to all faiths.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: Termagant
What??? Bush was wrong? Muslims aren't freedom loving and want to hold hands with Jews?

This is not news. Everyone should know these facts by now.

Sixty-eight percent support arrest and prosecution for those British people who "insult Islam."

:disgust: Too bad I'm not British, otherwise I'd insult away.

Yes Jews need to feel threatened by Muslims.
Jews in Israel watch out. 20% of your population is planning a mass murder sphree!!

:rolls eyes:
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,043
6,600
126
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
When asked if free speech should be protected, even if it offends religious groups, 62% of British Muslims say it should not be.

Pretty scary statistic there. It is this kind of attitude that is the Enemy of western civilization.

Wonder what the statistics are among non-religious groups is toward denying religious groups that are enemies of Western civilization the freedom to express their ideas.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Any solutions to this issue being posed in this thread, or more whining?
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
It is true we do not target to kill as many civilians as we can, but if we find out a terrorist is living in an apartment building and they could escape before we get there... then you better bet we will level that apartment building killing everyone inside.



 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
765
0
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Termagant
What??? Bush was wrong? Muslims aren't freedom loving and want to hold hands with Jews?

This is not news. Everyone should know these facts by now.

Sixty-eight percent support arrest and prosecution for those British people who "insult Islam."

:disgust: Too bad I'm not British, otherwise I'd insult away.

Yes Jews need to feel threatened by Muslims.
Jews in Israel watch out. 20% of your population is planning a mass murder sphree!!

:rolls eyes:

WTF are you talking about? Which religious militia just launched about 200 rockets into Israel?

What do people have to say with the completely un-Western statistics from the OP?
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: Termagant
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Termagant
What??? Bush was wrong? Muslims aren't freedom loving and want to hold hands with Jews?

This is not news. Everyone should know these facts by now.

Sixty-eight percent support arrest and prosecution for those British people who "insult Islam."

:disgust: Too bad I'm not British, otherwise I'd insult away.

Yes Jews need to feel threatened by Muslims.
Jews in Israel watch out. 20% of your population is planning a mass murder sphree!!

:rolls eyes:

WTF are you talking about? Which religious militia just launched about 200 rockets into Israel?

What do people have to say with the completely un-Western statistics from the OP?

You sound like a redneck who just started watching the news (FoxNews) for the first time ever.

Here are some facts to educate you:

1) The majority of Muslims are not from the Middle East.
2) Arabs are only 12% of the Muslim population
3) Islam says nothing about murder, suicide bombings, or killing of Jews.

 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
765
0
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Termagant
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Termagant
What??? Bush was wrong? Muslims aren't freedom loving and want to hold hands with Jews?

This is not news. Everyone should know these facts by now.

Sixty-eight percent support arrest and prosecution for those British people who "insult Islam."

:disgust: Too bad I'm not British, otherwise I'd insult away.

Yes Jews need to feel threatened by Muslims.
Jews in Israel watch out. 20% of your population is planning a mass murder sphree!!

:rolls eyes:

WTF are you talking about? Which religious militia just launched about 200 rockets into Israel?

What do people have to say with the completely un-Western statistics from the OP?

You sound like a redneck who just started watching the news (FoxNews) for the first time ever.

Here are some facts to educate you:

1) The majority of Muslims are not from the Middle East.
2) Arabs are only 12% of the Muslim population
3) Islam says nothing about murder, suicide bombings, or killing of Jews.

Don't try to patronize me. Do you want to talk about the subject of the OP?
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: Termagant
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Termagant
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Termagant
What??? Bush was wrong? Muslims aren't freedom loving and want to hold hands with Jews?

This is not news. Everyone should know these facts by now.

Sixty-eight percent support arrest and prosecution for those British people who "insult Islam."

:disgust: Too bad I'm not British, otherwise I'd insult away.

Yes Jews need to feel threatened by Muslims.
Jews in Israel watch out. 20% of your population is planning a mass murder sphree!!

:rolls eyes:

WTF are you talking about? Which religious militia just launched about 200 rockets into Israel?

What do people have to say with the completely un-Western statistics from the OP?

You sound like a redneck who just started watching the news (FoxNews) for the first time ever.

Here are some facts to educate you:

1) The majority of Muslims are not from the Middle East.
2) Arabs are only 12% of the Muslim population
3) Islam says nothing about murder, suicide bombings, or killing of Jews.

Don't try to patronize me. Do you want to talk about the subject of the OP?

Im educating you. Sorry if you learned a thing or two.
 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
765
0
0
Twenty-eight percent dream of the U.K. becoming a fundamentalist Islamic state, which comports with last year's Daily Telegraph newspaper survey that found one-third of British Muslims believe Western society is decadent and immoral and that Muslims should seek to end it.

Should Western nations put limits on immigrants of certain religions to maintain society as its present citizens want? Given that there are very divergent views among some immigrants and some natives.

The example that immediately springs to mind is Japan which has strict limits on who can move in, because the society has decided it wants to control its evolution. Especially considering its high standard of living and low birth rate.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
I find these types of polls interesting because one of the things we were lead to believe was poverty and political repression is a reason for these people's crazyness.

But when you start looking at people from outside the region, living in a western country and they come from all walks of life and 30% prefer to live in an Islamic state it should send up red flares to the local population.

What to do about it? I dont know, but I think westerners need to realize this culture war is starting to get hot and demographics are not on our side.

 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,167
43,286
136
Makes us in the US glad we only have to worry about illegal immigrants from Latin America. They don't want to change/destroy our country, only to build better lives for themselves and their children.

Radical Islam is the biggest threat to face the western world since the Soviet Union and one that is much harder to combat. Though those who support it should realize that the west hasn't crushed it brutally not because it doesn't have the means or will, but because we know at least know some restraint and conscience. The history of Europe is filled with thousands of years of brutal religious and political wars (a period without a major war or 5 is notable). Only recently has most of it known a very peaceful and prosperous time. They are poking a rather terrible sleeping monster in the eye with a stick, eventually it may once again rouse and mercilessly destroy the perceived threat and anyone caught in the middle.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
I find these types of polls interesting because one of the things we were lead to believe was poverty and political repression is a reason for these people's crazyness.

But when you start looking at people from outside the region, living in a western country and they come from all walks of life and 30% prefer to live in an Islamic state it should send up red flares to the local population.

What to do about it? I dont know, but I think westerners need to realize this culture war is starting to get hot and demographics are not on our side.

I'm not sure we can rule out the cause I bolded, Europe does not exactly have a good track record when it comes to accepting immigrant groups, the problems in France, for instance, are very well documented. Face it, as much as we like to think of Europe as an America with a bunch of funny accents, they do NOT have the same attitudes towards all things freedom that we do. I'd be far more interested to see a similar poll done in the United States...it's interesting that European polls keep getting flogged on the internet, while American versions have yet to surface...perhaps they are not so convincing, eh?
 

straightalker

Senior member
Dec 21, 2005
515
0
0
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Funny, if you say anything remotely negative about Jews or Israel you're instantly labeled an anti-semite and people go for your jugular. Look at poor old Mel Gibson and the public flogging he got just for uttering some nonsense while he was drunk no less. There's already active censorship about anti-Jewish/Israel speech, it should extend equally to all faiths.
Here's "funny" for you 5150Joker. Mel Gibson recieving a public flogging for a rant about Jews. While being the creator of a purposely gratuitously bloody 3hr snuff film all about Jewz and Romanz flogging, beating, stabbing, torturing and spitting on Jesus Christ and then nailing him live to a cross until dead. Think there is any connection?

This is a perfect link to chew on. Muslim Conquests in Europe.
In less than 100 years, Muslim warriors conquered lands for Islam from Persia to Spain. Muslims then pushed further into Europe. Their incursion into Western Europe was stopped in France. Their invasion from the east was finally halted at the gates of Vienna.
Islam always advances across any continant (or island) with the sole intention of killing everyone who will not convert, and then setting up an Ismic fascist Dictatorship in it's place. As a springboard to plot the next invasion of a Christian or other type of soveriegn land. Never mind if the people to be conquered are willing to live side by side in peace with Islam. They will all be annihilated as will everyone in the UK eventually if nothing is done to halt the current Islamic invasion happening there now. I'm simply projecting history forward and not ranting. Please study history and speak from it. It's the source of predicting the future and safeguarding that future. Our future. Not theirs. They care only about themselves and no one else.


 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: straightalker
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Funny, if you say anything remotely negative about Jews or Israel you're instantly labeled an anti-semite and people go for your jugular. Look at poor old Mel Gibson and the public flogging he got just for uttering some nonsense while he was drunk no less. There's already active censorship about anti-Jewish/Israel speech, it should extend equally to all faiths.
Here's "funny" for you 5150Joker. Mel Gibson recieving a public flogging for a rant about Jews. While being the creator of a purposely gratuitously bloody 3hr snuff film all about Jewz and Romanz flogging, beating, stabbing, torturing and spitting on Jesus Christ and then nailing him live to a cross until dead. Think there is any connection?

This is a perfect link to chew on. Muslim Conquests in Europe.
In less than 100 years, Muslim warriors conquered lands for Islam from Persia to Spain. Muslims then pushed further into Europe. Their incursion into Western Europe was stopped in France. Their invasion from the east was finally halted at the gates of Vienna.
Islam always advances across any continant (or island) with the sole intention of killing everyone who will not convert, .......... As a springboard to plot the next invasion of a Christian or other type of soveriegn land. Never mind if the people to be conquered are willing to live side by side in peace with Islam. They will all be annihilated as will everyone in the UK eventually if nothing is done to halt the current Islamic invasion happening there now. I'm simply projecting history forward and not ranting. Please study history and speak from it. It's the source of predicting the future and safeguarding that future. Our future. Not theirs. They care only about themselves and no one else.
Well if you had studied history you'd know that during the Crusades it was the Christian Crusaders who slaughtered the Muslims and Jews they conquered while the Muslims spared the lives of the Christians and Jews despite the brutality of the Crusaders.
 

Alaa

Senior member
Apr 26, 2005
839
8
81
Originally posted by: straightalker
Here's "funny" for you 5150Joker. Mel Gibson recieving a public flogging for a rant about Jews. While being the creator of a purposely gratuitously bloody 3hr snuff film all about Jewz and Romanz flogging, beating, stabbing, torturing and spitting on Jesus Christ and then nailing him live to a cross until dead. Think there is any connection?

This is a perfect link to chew on. Muslim Conquests in Europe.
In less than 100 years, Muslim warriors conquered lands for Islam from Persia to Spain. Muslims then pushed further into Europe. Their incursion into Western Europe was stopped in France. Their invasion from the east was finally halted at the gates of Vienna.
Islam always advances across any continant (or island) with the sole intention of killing everyone who will not convert, and then setting up an Ismic fascist Dictatorship in it's place. As a springboard to plot the next invasion of a Christian or other type of soveriegn land. Never mind if the people to be conquered are willing to live side by side in peace with Islam. They will all be annihilated as will everyone in the UK eventually if nothing is done to halt the current Islamic invasion happening there now. I'm simply projecting history forward and not ranting. Please study history and speak from it. It's the source of predicting the future and safeguarding that future. Our future. Not theirs. They care only about themselves and no one else.

I am starting to laugh, is that what you want?
Muslims killed everyone who would not convert..what a punch of crap talk is this?
Muslims only wanted to spread Islam. Jihad is a way of spreading Islam and we don't want to kill because we are told to kill! This is a way to reach our goal not our goal! And that is completely different than killing people who do not convert because we only killed in wars but when it comes to civilians we cannot touch them whether they converted or not and this can be EASILY identified from Quran : "Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion." 109:6.
I hope you come up with "Anti-Islamism" soon.

 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
When asked if free speech should be protected, even if it offends religious groups, 62% of British Muslims say it should not be.

Pretty scary statistic there. It is this kind of attitude that is the Enemy of western civilization.



Funny, if you say anything remotely negative about Jews or Israel you're instantly labeled an anti-semite and people go for your jugular. Look at poor old Mel Gibson and the public flogging he got just for uttering some nonsense while he was drunk no less. There's already active censorship about anti-Jewish/Israel speech, it should extend equally to all faiths.

You have to b kidding...right?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
Originally posted by: Termagant
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Termagant
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Termagant
What??? Bush was wrong? Muslims aren't freedom loving and want to hold hands with Jews?

This is not news. Everyone should know these facts by now.

Sixty-eight percent support arrest and prosecution for those British people who "insult Islam."

:disgust: Too bad I'm not British, otherwise I'd insult away.

Yes Jews need to feel threatened by Muslims.
Jews in Israel watch out. 20% of your population is planning a mass murder sphree!!

:rolls eyes:

WTF are you talking about? Which religious militia just launched about 200 rockets into Israel?

What do people have to say with the completely un-Western statistics from the OP?

You sound like a redneck who just started watching the news (FoxNews) for the first time ever.

Here are some facts to educate you:

1) The majority of Muslims are not from the Middle East.
2) Arabs are only 12% of the Muslim population
3) Islam says nothing about murder, suicide bombings, or killing of Jews.

Don't try to patronize me. Do you want to talk about the subject of the OP?

patrinize you?? In order to talk about a subject you need to have some knowledg about a specific subject. Thus the need to eucate before talking can occur!!