Do any of you guys lift weights? Let's start a suppliment/myth thread.

[Bleeding Jawa]

Sounds like you are getting lots of protien!!!

However, I bet you could take the money you spend on your "super shakes" & eat out at a nice steak house 3 times a day!!!

 

[Athanasius]

Bleeding Jawa & Moose Knuckle:

Excellent posts. I am no nutritionalist, professional, or hard-core "gym rat," but I tend to doubt the sincerity of the "Suppliments" industry. I wonder how many of the guys on this thread who are really loading up on supplements are teenagers or young college guys? I am not criticizing anybody, or trying to put anybody down. I just think people should think long and hard about their motives and what they are willing to possibly risk for what they might really gain. Image/form counts for very little. You might do well to listen to some who are older ones who are still into exercise and have 10+ years of experience. In other words, those who have successfully persevered without dedicating their entire life to weightlifting.

I believe exercise should be a life-long discipline. You want to develop a mindset that enables you to enjoy exercise when you are forty five, not just when you are 15-25 and seeing obvious results that probably have much more to do with genetics and puberty than they do with any supplements you are taking.

If you are a serious athlete in track and field, football, or some such sport, than you have to push to maximize your peak between fifteen and twenty-five years old. Otherwise, long-term goals steadily pursued are what generally lead to results and greater happiness or self-confidence for the one who perseveres.

 

[AndrewR]

Since some people are trying to legitimize the use of ephedrine or its herbal equivalent, ephedra: Do not use either of these. There have been several deaths around the country (one here in Georgia not too long ago) from the use of ephedrine and ephedra (also called ma huang or something like that). Since it boosts your heartrate, it can exacerbate existing heart conditions, whether latent or known, and can kill you -- plain and simple. That's a FACT, not hyperbole. It is also exceedindly dangerous for diabetics, and since that condition is one of the most undiagnosed in the country, there's an added chance of susceptibility which would probably also include those with hypoglycemia.

If you need the extra energy boost of something like ephedrine, you probably need to get more sleep or to adjust your diet. It's not worth it.

 

[K_Factor]

There is an incredible amount of incorrect information in this thread.

Bleeding Jawa,

Don't try to offer people advise about getting big, because you don't know what you are talking about. Dude, no offense, but you have trained for distance and have a distance runners body.

Basically that means you are eating about six OR MORE solid meals, plus lifting 4 hours or more each day.

This statement is rediculous. Most people that train for size and strength only work out for around and hour, 3 or 4 times a week. The key is intensity. Working out 4 hours per day would lead to serious overtraining. Don't try to fool yourself, most competitive "bodybuilders" use steriods, and that is the only way they are able to get freaky huge.

Do not waste your money on HMB. EAS must be doing a great job of marketing the stuff from some of the posts in this thread. The stuff is useless.

Muscle does not turn to fat after people stop lifting. They simply don't adjust their diet, and as a result gain weight. The "bitch tits" can be attributed to large chest muscles (which are still there) covered by more fat.

Gains from creatine do not disappear after people stop using it. Creatine allows people to lift harder than they normally could, thus causing more muscle damage. This extra damage will lead to more muscle growth if a persons gets enough rest, has a good diet, and a good training program.

Millions of people use ephedrine based products every day. I bet more people have died from using aspirin than ephedrine. The key is moderation. Follow the directions on the bottle and listen to your body. Many of the deaths involved teenagers who took way to much of the stuff at one time.

 

[Bleeding Jawa]

First of all, I find it really really quite funny that you can judge my experience even though I haven't told you anything about it. For your information, I personally have never been an endurance athlete myself. At both the high school & college level, I was a long jumper & triple jumper as well as a sprinter. Though my goal was never to "get big," my goal, like powerlifting, was ALWAYS to increase strength, and more importantly POWER. Addtitionally, I have over 10 years of experience teaching & coaching others in power events.

Secondly, I DO know about "getting big;" however, I would NEVER offer advice about doing so. "Size" is primarily a byproduct of genetic makeup. "Strength" is a byproduct of intensity. YES, they are related, but you cannot get big just by lifting--some people will NEVER get big regardless of what they do--BUT they WILL get stronger. To build one pound of muscle requires a great deal of work, but also a LOT of EXTRA calories. When I mentioned 4 hours of lifting, I'm not talking about the "Average Joe" & I would never recommend that for ANYONE.

I have had this argument more times than I care to remember. The result is always the same--people will do what they want to do. It is just really unfortunate that our self-image has to be derived from "TV" & "Movies" & people cannot work to better themselves in a realistic, HEALTHY manner.

Best of luck to everyone in your pursuits, regardless of what they may be.

 

[K_Factor]

Bleeding Jawa,

I shouldn't have assumed that you trained for distance. From reading your previous posts, your max squat is pretty impressive for your weight. While I do agree that some supplements are worthless (andro, HMB, and many others), others are actually quite useful. It is very hard for most people that train (including myself) to eat enough protein each day without protein powder or MRPs. Multivitamins are also good. If you are still training for strength and power, you should try creatine. I think you will be happy with the strength and intensity increase you experience. While there are no long term studies on the safety of creatine, it seems to be a very safe product. From thinking of all the other toxins that people injest (alcohol, cigerettes, caffeine, very fatty food, ...) I have a hard time believing that creatine will have any serious long term side effects. The human body has the remarkable ability to adapt to many substances.

 

[MooseKnuckle]

K_Factor, HMB is useless? Maybe for you, I find it quite beneficial.
EAS makes fine products, as does Apex. I've just started using Apex products and for me they seem to work well. Everyone is different, one's body may absorb or digest a certain supplement differently. I'm basing my findings on 15 yrs. of lifting. Let me say one thing, no one is going to get big overnight off of any supplement. The problem or misconception in the industry is fueled by all the bodybuilding magazines. I weight train 6 times a week for 45mins. at a time, and I'm no where near the bodybuilders in those magazines. Those guys do one thing differently, they take steriods. It's a shame that the editors of this magazines don't come right out and say these things. It's very disappointing for a young kid starting out and having dreams of looking like the bodybuilders in the pages of these rag magazines. I'll admit I read them, but only for their nutritional and exercise information. My best friend owns two health clubs, I have young guys come up to me every week asking about ways to get big. My advice is a clean and healthy diet, plenty of rest and proper protein intake based on lean muscle mass. Also, drinking 16-22oz. of water before and during a workout is key. Studies have shown that a hydrated body is 25 percent more efficient during exercise. A quality protein supplement after a workout along with a portion of complex carbs is also helpful in aiding muscle growth. Varying exercise along with diet is the best way to not plateau. You basically keep your body guessing, therefore growing. Don't believe everything you read in magazines, go with your gut and learn to know your body. BTW, I take EAS and other higher priced supplements because of their quality, and I don't pay for them.

 

[Netopia]

K_Factor, I have to agree with MooseKnuckle... HMB is most definitly effective. I would testify in court from my own experience with it! Whether it is worth the money is a completely different matter. I believe that (as Athanasius said) most people don't have an actual need for most of the this stuff, so to spend $100+ per month on HMB alone is probably a waste. If you are a competitive athlete though, it might be worth the money.

Also, to say that Andro is worthless is just silliness. While I don't take it and don't think that it is necessarily safe, I'm not so foolish as to say that it chemically do what it is supposed to.

Joe

 

[AndrewR]

Well, fact of the matter is that ephedrine HAS killed people. None of the other products discussed in here has had the same effect, to my knowledge. Cocaine in moderation isn't all that bad, either. You can also injest small levels of nicotine without dying. Both of those will also kill you at higher levels.

If you want to risk it, it's your heart. Enjoy.

 

[billandopus]

I won't and can't say that unequivocably that Ephedra is 100% safe but this goes without saying for everything. However, I would agree with K-Factor's supposition that probably more people have died or been harmed from aspirin usage than ephedra usage.

In addition, from my own personal experience and from reading the latest findings and results from clinical trials it has been suggested that HMB does not have the efficacy as claimed by Bill Phillips of EAS who was the first big name to bring HMB to the market, if I remember correctly.

I prefer Creatine and Glutamine.

However, whatever floats your boat. If HMB works for you then it works for you. Period. That's what counts.

I've noticed that many people stick with EAS products on this thread and i'm wondering why they do considering the benefit/cost relationship. More to the point: what does it cost you to have EAS products compared to what you spend for something else? I find other products to be better for less. Prolab for example. Less expensive and a better product, IMO. But that's me.

Again, whatever works for you.