Do a lot of people not understand why America was formed?

[ModerateRepZero]

How is California screwed up and how is that a direct result of their proposition system?

It's been awhile, so bear with me if I'm in error:

California has been facing a budget crisis for the last few years. Not only is the deficit bigger than that of other states, but Gov. Schwarzenegger is restricted in his options to cut spending. As a result of various rules and regulations, California Legislature needs a 2/3 super majority to pass budget bills, and also because of California's proposition system, all sorts of ballot initiatives changes have been proposed (in 2004 the historical average was 18 propositions) and a few have passed. Two notable examples are Proposition 13 which as I understand it limits the increase in property taxes and also Proposition 98 which mandates minimum k-12 educational funding.

There's probably a number of criticisms of California's referendum system but the most relevant ones to your question are as follows:

- The flurry of propositions proposed make it easy for voters to make hasty and/or ill-informed decisions, and any propositions that pass may and probably will conflict with existing propositions or California law.

- Some of these propositions put constraints or restrictions on state actions or spending...whether it be mandating a minimum amount/threshold, putting a ceiling, etc. It may be a good thing that the governor can't borrow money to balance the budget, but it makes things difficult if you can't find enough items to cut in the budget and have to rely on increased fees and/or taxes. But what if you can't increase property taxes by a meaningful amount due to Proposition 13?......

one article discussing criticism of the budget crisis & proposition system:
http://www.iandrinstitute.org/New I...tsusaka - CA Budget and Initiatives - IRI.pdf

 

[Linflas]

Lets not forget the US didn't become "great" until really after after WW II.

Actually we just remained isolationist until WWII. It was our isolationism and tendency to totally stand down our military after conflicts that caused countries like Japan and Germany to totally dismiss the awesome industrial power we actually possessed and the capabilities of it when we devoted all our resources to a conflict the way we did in WWII.

 

[Cuda1447]

Good thread guys. A lot of quality discussion, imagine that. I want to hit on a few points people have made.... but no time will do later.

 

[zinfamous]

taxation without representation /= excessive taxation.

I stopped reading the rest of your post, because your anchor point is obvious BS.

sorry.

 

[zinfamous]

Actually we just remained isolationist until WWII. It was our isolationism and tendency to totally stand down our military after conflicts that caused countries like Japan and Germany to totally dismiss the awesome industrial power we actually possessed and the capabilities of it when we devoted all our resources to a conflict the way we did in WWII.

Eisenhower, Truman....all of them rejected the notion of a permanent standing army. They feared it would be the end of this country.

We became great primarily under the smoking husk of Europe and Japan.

 

[zinfamous]

It's been awhile, so bear with me if I'm in error:

California has been facing a budget crisis for the last few years. Not only is the deficit bigger than that of other states, but Gov. Schwarzenegger is restricted in his options to cut spending. As a result of various rules and regulations, California Legislature needs a 2/3 super majority to pass budget bills, and also because of California's proposition system, all sorts of ballot initiatives changes have been proposed (in 2004 the historical average was 18 propositions) and a few have passed. Two notable examples are Proposition 13 which as I understand it limits the increase in property taxes and also Proposition 98 which mandates minimum k-12 educational funding.

There's probably a number of criticisms of California's referendum system but the most relevant ones to your question are as follows:

- The flurry of propositions proposed make it easy for voters to make hasty and/or ill-informed decisions, and any propositions that pass may and probably will conflict with existing propositions or California law.

- Some of these propositions put constraints or restrictions on state actions or spending...whether it be mandating a minimum amount/threshold, putting a ceiling, etc. It may be a good thing that the governor can't borrow money to balance the budget, but it makes things difficult if you can't find enough items to cut in the budget and have to rely on increased fees and/or taxes. But what if you can't increase property taxes by a meaningful amount due to Proposition 13?......

one article discussing criticism of the budget crisis & proposition system:
http://www.iandrinstitute.org/New I...tsusaka - CA Budget and Initiatives - IRI.pdf

:thumbsup:

excellent.

 

[dmcowen674]

It is pretty much accepted as fact that one of the main reasons the United States was formed was due to excessive taxation.

This was why we fought the Revolutionary War.

This was why we formed the United States.

Now we have excessive tax again, there will be another revolution, period.

Different target same result.

SSDD

 

[heyheybooboo]

Now we have excessive tax again, there will be another revolution, period.

Different target same result.

SSDD

Uhhh, wut?

Federal tax receipts are at the lowest level of GDP since the Great Depression --- and roughly 60% of FY2000 levels (the last time there was a surplus in the Unified Budget)





--

 

[piasabird]

A large percentage of the properties are sitting unoccupied in California. So raising taxes will not help that much. They need to attract people to move to California, not leave California. The other states dont want all the freaks.