DNA tests get man freed after 26 years

[techs]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._re_us/dna_exoneration

DNA tests get man freed after 26 years 1 hour, 33 minutes ago


A man who contended throughout his 26 years in prison that he never raped a woman who lived five houses down from him was freed Thursday after a judge recommended overturning his conviction.

Charles Chatman, 47, was released on his recognizance as several of his eight siblings cheered. He was freed on the basis of new DNA testing that lawyers say proves his innocence and adds to Dallas County's nationally unmatched number of wrongfully convicted inmates.

"I'm bitter. I'm angry," Chatman told The Associated Press during his last night in jail Wednesday. "But I'm not angry or bitter to the point where I want to hurt anyone or get revenge."

He became the 15th inmate from Dallas County since 2001 to be freed by DNA testing.

Dallas has freed more inmates after DNA testing than any other county nationwide, said Natalie Roetzel of the Innocence Project of Texas. Texas leads the country in prisoners freed by DNA testing, with at least 30 wrongfully convicted inmates since 2001.

Mike Ware, who heads the Conviction Integrity Unit in the Dallas County District Attorney's office, said he expects that number to increase.

One of the biggest reasons for the large number of exonerations in Texas is the crime lab used by Dallas County, which accounts for about half the state's DNA cases. Unlike many jurisdictions, the lab used by police and prosecutors retains biological evidence, meaning DNA testing is a viable option for decades-old crimes.

District Attorney Craig Watkins also attributes the exonerations to a past culture of overly aggressive prosecutors seeking convictions at any cost. Watkins has started a program in which law students, supervised by the Innocence Project of Texas, are reviewing about 450 cases in which convicts have requested DNA testing.

Chatman was 20 when the victim, a young woman in her 20s, picked him from a lineup. Chatman said he lived five houses down from the victim for 13 years but never knew her. At the time the woman was assaulted, Chatman said he didn't have any front teeth; he had been certain that feature would set him apart from the real assailant.

"I'm not sure why he ended up on that photo spread to begin with," Ware said.

Chatman, who was convicted of aggravated sexual assault in 1981 and sentenced to 99 years in prison, said his faith kept him from giving up.



He's not bitter?
Well, I sure would be.

 

[Craig234]

Common sense suggests that since only very few cases have all the facts lined up just right to where DNA evidence can show the verdict was wrong, the same errors in the system that resulted in those wrong results probably resulted in wrong results in many, many more cases as well than can ever be fixed by DNA testing. There are doubtless many innocents sitting in jail.

 

[jonks]

Which is why we need to fry em now before they get out and file suits. It's the taxpayer that's gonna bear the brunt of this in the end!

 

[RightIsWrong]

It's really fortunate for us living in Texas that the state is willing to use the death penalty so liberally and swiftly. If they weren't these vile, violent criminals would be back out on the streets to rape, plunder and pillage again. Oh wait.... :roll:

As if it was really needed, yet another example why the barbaric death penalty has long outlasted its "usefullness".

 

[Aimster]

From my understanding you can't sue the state for anything.

States usually give them money out of "good-will" or create special laws to compensate the victim.

The State however does not have to do anything if it doesn't want to.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Aimster
From my understanding you can't sue the state for anything.

States usually give them money out of "good-will" or create special laws to compensate the victim.

The State however does not have to do anything if it doesn't want to.

If you are referring to "sovereign immunity" then yes, you can only sue the state when it allows. But the state doesn't make a case by case determination about when it will allow people to sue. It creates statutes that apply to everyone under which a citizen can sue. Wrongfully imprisoned citizens can sue under a variety of state sanctioned tort laws, as well as under federal and constitutional deprivation of liberty claims.

Additionally, when the state enters into a contract, say hiring a construction company to build the roads, the plaintiff can sue on the contract where the state is acting as a commercial entity.

ED: of course, as craig says below, the right to sue doesn't get you money, you still have to prove someone screwed up either intentionally, or negligently enough to be liable

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Aimster
From my understanding you can't sue the state for anything.

States usually give them money out of "good-will" or create special laws to compensate the victim.

The State however does not have to do anything if it doesn't want to.

I'm no expert on the law on this, but there is as you say a legal doctrine making the government immune from some lawsuits, but there are times it can be sued.

However, the wrongful conviction is problematic as a lawsuit, as it's hard to prove who did what wrong with intent or negligence.

If you can show the prosecutor did something illegal, etc., that's another matter, but is the exception. This is more of a 'goodwill' situation.

Also don't forget the law of unintended consequences - would compensation of many millions overly incent the state not to investigate innocence too hard?

 

[jonks]

oops

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: Aimster
From my understanding you can't sue the state for anything.

States usually give them money out of "good-will" or create special laws to compensate the victim.

The State however does not have to do anything if it doesn't want to.

Are you sure about that? I have read a few times about False Imprisonment/Wrongful Detention cases where people have gotten millions.

couple examples
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...F930A35751C1A96E958260

http://www.aele.org/law/Digests/jail39.html

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Aimster
From my understanding you can't sue the state for anything.

States usually give them money out of "good-will" or create special laws to compensate the victim.

The State however does not have to do anything if it doesn't want to.

Most states have no laws on the books and those that do are pretty horrific. This guy is "fortunate", according to Texas law is eligible for $500,000 max which equates to him working a job @ ~$19k/yr.

If you figure that he was "on the job 24/7"....

(24*365)+6 ( 1/4 day to account for leap year) = ~$2.19/hr (no vacation/no sick days/probably raped)

That sounds pretty fair.

http://pbs.gen.in/wgbh/pages/f.../burden/etc/chart.html

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: Aimster
From my understanding you can't sue the state for anything.

States usually give them money out of "good-will" or create special laws to compensate the victim.

The State however does not have to do anything if it doesn't want to.

Are you sure about that? I have read a few times about False Imprisonment/Wrongful Detention cases where people have gotten millions.

couple examples
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...F930A35751C1A96E958260

http://www.aele.org/law/Digests/jail39.html

From the first article, the state passed a law allowing the lawsuits:

By law, the state would be liable for $25,000 for each of the 10 years that Dr. Sheppard served in prison, plus lawyers' fees and any loss of earnings, which could be considerable, given that he had had a large medical practice.

Your second link appears to discuss wrongdoing, holding prisoners longer than their sentences.

 

[Farang]

If this isn't enough to end the death penalty I don't know what could. Is vengeance enough of a reason for the state to murder innocent people? It is unavoidable in the current system, and until a perfect system can be devised we should abstain from all executions.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: Aimster
From my understanding you can't sue the state for anything.

States usually give them money out of "good-will" or create special laws to compensate the victim.

The State however does not have to do anything if it doesn't want to.

Are you sure about that? I have read a few times about False Imprisonment/Wrongful Detention cases where people have gotten millions.

couple examples
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...F930A35751C1A96E958260

http://www.aele.org/law/Digests/jail39.html

From the first article, the state passed a law allowing the lawsuits:

By law, the state would be liable for $25,000 for each of the 10 years that Dr. Sheppard served in prison, plus lawyers' fees and any loss of earnings, which could be considerable, given that he had had a large medical practice.

Your second link appears to discuss wrongdoing, holding prisoners longer than their sentences.

I think I see the point you are making, if the state locks you up and the jury had reason without doubt to inprison then the state is not responsible. But if there was an error on a state that falsly imprisons the guy they are able to be sued.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: techs
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._re_us/dna_exoneration

DNA tests get man freed after 26 years 1 hour, 33 minutes ago


A man who contended throughout his 26 years in prison that he never raped a woman who lived five houses down from him was freed Thursday after a judge recommended overturning his conviction.

Charles Chatman, 47, was released on his recognizance as several of his eight siblings cheered. He was freed on the basis of new DNA testing that lawyers say proves his innocence and adds to Dallas County's nationally unmatched number of wrongfully convicted inmates.

"I'm bitter. I'm angry," Chatman told The Associated Press during his last night in jail Wednesday. "But I'm not angry or bitter to the point where I want to hurt anyone or get revenge."

He became the 15th inmate from Dallas County since 2001 to be freed by DNA testing.

Dallas has freed more inmates after DNA testing than any other county nationwide, said Natalie Roetzel of the Innocence Project of Texas. Texas leads the country in prisoners freed by DNA testing, with at least 30 wrongfully convicted inmates since 2001.

Mike Ware, who heads the Conviction Integrity Unit in the Dallas County District Attorney's office, said he expects that number to increase.

One of the biggest reasons for the large number of exonerations in Texas is the crime lab used by Dallas County, which accounts for about half the state's DNA cases. Unlike many jurisdictions, the lab used by police and prosecutors retains biological evidence, meaning DNA testing is a viable option for decades-old crimes.

District Attorney Craig Watkins also attributes the exonerations to a past culture of overly aggressive prosecutors seeking convictions at any cost. Watkins has started a program in which law students, supervised by the Innocence Project of Texas, are reviewing about 450 cases in which convicts have requested DNA testing.

Chatman was 20 when the victim, a young woman in her 20s, picked him from a lineup. Chatman said he lived five houses down from the victim for 13 years but never knew her. At the time the woman was assaulted, Chatman said he didn't have any front teeth; he had been certain that feature would set him apart from the real assailant.

"I'm not sure why he ended up on that photo spread to begin with," Ware said.

Chatman, who was convicted of aggravated sexual assault in 1981 and sentenced to 99 years in prison, said his faith kept him from giving up.



He's not bitter?
Well, I sure would be.

Sounds more like the county of most false convictions, maybe they better look for the kangaroo in the court room. DA "I am convinced he is guilty, hang the evidence!".

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Farang
If this isn't enough to end the death penalty I don't know what could. Is vengeance enough of a reason for the state to murder innocent people? It is unavoidable in the current system, and until a perfect system can be devised we should abstain from all executions.

Well, most reversals are with cases from the 80s and very early 1990s when DNA was new or not even avalible. The reversal rates for cases since 1996 are MUCH MUCH lower, almost non existent. But yeah the death penalty needs to be done away with.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: techs
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._re_us/dna_exoneration

DNA tests get man freed after 26 years 1 hour, 33 minutes ago


A man who contended throughout his 26 years in prison that he never raped a woman who lived five houses down from him was freed Thursday after a judge recommended overturning his conviction.

Charles Chatman, 47, was released on his recognizance as several of his eight siblings cheered. He was freed on the basis of new DNA testing that lawyers say proves his innocence and adds to Dallas County's nationally unmatched number of wrongfully convicted inmates.

"I'm bitter. I'm angry," Chatman told The Associated Press during his last night in jail Wednesday. "But I'm not angry or bitter to the point where I want to hurt anyone or get revenge."

He became the 15th inmate from Dallas County since 2001 to be freed by DNA testing.

Dallas has freed more inmates after DNA testing than any other county nationwide, said Natalie Roetzel of the Innocence Project of Texas. Texas leads the country in prisoners freed by DNA testing, with at least 30 wrongfully convicted inmates since 2001.

Mike Ware, who heads the Conviction Integrity Unit in the Dallas County District Attorney's office, said he expects that number to increase.

One of the biggest reasons for the large number of exonerations in Texas is the crime lab used by Dallas County, which accounts for about half the state's DNA cases. Unlike many jurisdictions, the lab used by police and prosecutors retains biological evidence, meaning DNA testing is a viable option for decades-old crimes.

District Attorney Craig Watkins also attributes the exonerations to a past culture of overly aggressive prosecutors seeking convictions at any cost. Watkins has started a program in which law students, supervised by the Innocence Project of Texas, are reviewing about 450 cases in which convicts have requested DNA testing.

Chatman was 20 when the victim, a young woman in her 20s, picked him from a lineup. Chatman said he lived five houses down from the victim for 13 years but never knew her. At the time the woman was assaulted, Chatman said he didn't have any front teeth; he had been certain that feature would set him apart from the real assailant.

"I'm not sure why he ended up on that photo spread to begin with," Ware said.

Chatman, who was convicted of aggravated sexual assault in 1981 and sentenced to 99 years in prison, said his faith kept him from giving up.



He's not bitter?
Well, I sure would be.

Sounds more like the county of most false convictions, maybe they better look for the kangaroo in the court room. DA "I am convinced he is guilty, hang the evidence!".

Prior to DNA testing, there wasnt much evidence. Obviously there was enough circumstantial evidence for a conviction, but prior to DNA testing the extent of physical evidence in cases like these was extremely limited.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: Aimster
From my understanding you can't sue the state for anything.

States usually give them money out of "good-will" or create special laws to compensate the victim.

The State however does not have to do anything if it doesn't want to.

Are you sure about that? I have read a few times about False Imprisonment/Wrongful Detention cases where people have gotten millions.

couple examples
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...F930A35751C1A96E958260

http://www.aele.org/law/Digests/jail39.html

From the first article, the state passed a law allowing the lawsuits:

By law, the state would be liable for $25,000 for each of the 10 years that Dr. Sheppard served in prison, plus lawyers' fees and any loss of earnings, which could be considerable, given that he had had a large medical practice.

Your second link appears to discuss wrongdoing, holding prisoners longer than their sentences.

I think I see the point you are making, if the state locks you up and the jury had reason without doubt to inprison then the state is not responsible. But if there was an error on a state that falsly imprisons the guy they are able to be sued.

Right - but states can allow compensation for people who are later found to be innocent, if they want - the public seems sympathetic (thank goodness) to that.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Farang
If this isn't enough to end the death penalty I don't know what could. Is vengeance enough of a reason for the state to murder innocent people? It is unavoidable in the current system, and until a perfect system can be devised we should abstain from all executions.

Well, most reversals are with cases from the 80s and very early 1990s when DNA was new or not even avalible. The reversal rates for cases since 1996 are MUCH MUCH lower, almost non existent. But yeah the death penalty needs to be done away with.

But do you understand that doesn't mean the wrongful convictions are gone - only those where there happens to be DNA evidence.

There's a basic criminal justice process, with various kinds of evidence. It has an error rate. Most cases are decided under that process without DNA being a deciding factor.

DNA was like a one-time 'magic wand' to see if the process worked, for a subset of cases where DNA evidence existed and was preserved, but had been useless at trial.

It no longer works that way, because when there's DNA evidence now, it's used at the police phase and rules out suspects. So the majority of trials, where there's no DNA evidence to prove guilt or innocence, continue as they were, and can't be later verified by DNA - it was a one-time period where we did trials and could later apply DNA testing to test the accuracy of the trial.

Unfortunately, that one-time period saw, IIRC, hundreds of verdicts proven wrong, showing a sizable error rate in the criminal justice process that still goes on.

This is why it should be an ongoing effort to improve the system - it's an invisible problem, outside of the one-time DNA window, where claims of innocence are not believed.

We've had the discussion before what the 'right' ratio is of letting guilty go free, to avoid convicting someone innocent, and it was clear the answer is, 'ignorance is bliss'.

As in, the answer is platitudes about 'it's terrible if it happens', but little commitment to do much about it, and a desire to assume it doesn't happen.

I'm more in favor of additional data being available (that can include more cameras, including on police cars), and funding investigations.

I've also liked the idea of allowing jurors to ask witnesses questions, through the judge. It's a common experience for jurors to feel key questions went unasked.

 

[Nemesis 1]

So if your innocent of a crime. Either their was no evidance that the person did the crime and it was all manufactored(Which is a crime) or a witness lied (Which is a crime). No matter how you look at it . If a person is convicted of a crime they didn't do. Somewhere evidence against that person is manufactored. Its a crime but we all know the justic system is blind when it comes to justic. All laywers and judges would be better off dead for all the bad they have done.

Here's the trueth . Their are 2 differant kinds of criminals in the world . The ones the operate outside the law . That go to prison . You know the ones that newspapers and TV and the web . Talk about.

Than their are the real snakes . These people are easy to recognize. Their usually vary rich . Have positions of power. That the blatantly abuse for others in there class.

I know its blasphemy to talk about our justic system like this. Its true never the less.

Enron swindle 80 billion dollars . WHO WENT TO JAIL ?

The Floridia pres. vote . Supreme court stopped everthing . WHY?

The subprime morgage problem . Many high up bankers should be jailed for this one. But will any? NO!

I could go on and on. But whats the point? Than there is the special prisons for the rich and powerful. Discrimination at its worse . Rich crimninals are better than poor ones . LOL Welcome to America Land of complete BS.