Distributor related question. (Coil)

[Emission]

I'd like to upgrade the distributor in my 1970 Chrysler 440 Engine with an electronic points-less one, and I was wondering if it would be a good idea to replace the original coil as well. Does a higher voltage coil require any additional equipment or a special distributor? Or is voltage irrelevant?

All I know is that higher voltage would equal greater spark energy and a more completely burned mixture, at least that's my educated guess from what I know so far.

I can give more specific details if need be.

 

[crosshairs]

Replacing the coil also, is a good idea.....and no, you don't need anything special.
Get a good quality coil, and bolt it in.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Emission
I'd like to upgrade the distributor in my 1970 Chrysler 440 Engine with an electronic points-less one, and I was wondering if it would be a good idea to replace the original coil as well. Does a higher voltage coil require any additional equipment or a special distributor? Or is voltage irrelevant?

All I know is that higher voltage would equal greater spark energy and a more completely burned mixture, at least that's my educated guess from what I know so far.

I can give more specific details if need be.

Mopar used the same coil for points and Electronic Ignition/ESA, esp after 1970.

If you feel you need a new coil just get one from your local Mopar dealer.

A new ballast resister is required if you use an Accel Super Coil.

Also for the conversion you will need a new ballast resister, ECU (orange box will be good for your application), wiring connector and instructions on how to hook everything up.

There are walk-throughs in older Mopar magazines and books from Mopar Performance.

 

[Emission]

They sell electronic distributor kits especially for this engine, New distributor, ECU, wiring harness, ballast resistor, and installation instructions, so I'm not worried about any of that. I just wanted to make sure that it was safe to use a higher voltage coil with this equipment. The original coil is due for replacement so why not put in a more powerful one? The reason being that it should result in more spark energy, and a more thoroughly burned mixture.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Emission
They sell electronic distributor kits especially for this engine, New distributor, ECU, wiring harness, ballast resistor, and installation instructions, so I'm not worried about any of that. I just wanted to make sure that it was safe to use a higher voltage coil with this equipment. The original coil is due for replacement so why not put in a more powerful one? The reason being that it should result in more spark energy, and a more thoroughly burned mixture.

your set up should work just fine.

I converted my Lean Burn 318 10 years ago. I didn't use the kit. I just got good parts here and there. I paid $20 for a brand new small block distributor from the wreckers (score!), a chrome ECU from a friend selling his old parts for $20 ( over $75 new), the ecu harness from Mopar Performance and accel cap and rotor with Moroso wires.

I recurved the distributor and have had no problems at all.

 

[Emission]

This particular 440 is a bit rich burning, which could just be the result of a failing coil, but I figure if I'm going to replace it I might as well upgrade it, right?

Nice score on the parts, but I'm not familiar with any junk yards around here and I'd like to get new parts anyway for the sake of longevity.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Emission
This particular 440 is a bit rich burning, which could just be the result of a failing coil, but I figure if I'm going to replace it I might as well upgrade it, right?

Nice score on the parts, but I'm not familiar with any junk yards around here and I'd like to get new parts anyway for the sake of longevity.

could be the carb, too.

What vehicle is this and is the engine stock?

 

[Pacfanweb]

Coils rarely fail. Unless they are VERY old, like yours. They get replaced a lot, but usually aren't the cause of whatever problem they are bought to fix.

Points suck. You need an electronic distributor of some sort. Getting one of those, with a good magnetic trigger will be a good thing.....THEN, you will benefit from a different coil. Otherwise, you're wasting your money just putting a coil on the points system. What's going to make the coil put out more is the electronic module that's driving it.

So I see there is a conversion for the Chrysler stuff. That's good....the Chrysler electronic module is a good one, from what I've heard.

Here's a tip: Don't look at the voltage ratings of coils. They are mostly irrelevant....any good coil will do. Any gas engine, up to and including Nascar and even Fuel engines, only need about 45000 volts to fire reliably.
Changing the plug gap will significantly change the voltage the coil puts out. Reason being, it has to saturate a tad longer to build up enough energy to jump the larger gap.

There is a point of diminishing returns, though....much bigger than .050" or so, and you lose amperage....but changing the plug gap from what the stock setting is...probably .030-35" or so, to .045" will up the voltage of the coil and put you in the "sweet spot" of gap/voltage/amperage, where you get the best power/mileage.

There is also the option of switching to an HEI distributor. I mention this since you say you want all new parts. Originally a GM product, they are made for about any domestic V-8 now. They usually come complete, with one-wire hookup. Coil, module contained in one unit.
Keep the plug gap thing in mind with these....some makers claim you can run .055" gap on them.....while on any system, the larger the gap gets the more voltage you'll get, you also run the risk of the spark deciding to find an easier path to ground than the plug electrode.
The HEI would be a much easier way to do it than all that wiring harness crap, and separate module and coil mess. One wire to power the HEI, and run your plug wires...set the timing and DONE.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Coils rarely fail. Unless they are VERY old, like yours. They get replaced a lot, but usually aren't the cause of whatever problem they are bought to fix.

Points suck. You need an electronic distributor of some sort. Getting one of those, with a good magnetic trigger will be a good thing.....THEN, you will benefit from a different coil. Otherwise, you're wasting your money just putting a coil on the points system. What's going to make the coil put out more is the electronic module that's driving it.

So I see there is a conversion for the Chrysler stuff. That's good....the Chrysler electronic module is a good one, from what I've heard.

Here's a tip: Don't look at the voltage ratings of coils. They are mostly irrelevant....any good coil will do. Any gas engine, up to and including Nascar and even Fuel engines, only need about 45000 volts to fire reliably.
Changing the plug gap will significantly change the voltage the coil puts out. Reason being, it has to saturate a tad longer to build up enough energy to jump the larger gap.

There is a point of diminishing returns, though....much bigger than .050" or so, and you lose amperage....but changing the plug gap from what the stock setting is...probably .030-35" or so, to .045" will up the voltage of the coil and put you in the "sweet spot" of gap/voltage/amperage, where you get the best power/mileage.

There is also the option of switching to an HEI distributor. I mention this since you say you want all new parts. Originally a GM product, they are made for about any domestic V-8 now. They usually come complete, with one-wire hookup. Coil, module contained in one unit.
Keep the plug gap thing in mind with these....some makers claim you can run .055" gap on them.....while on any system, the larger the gap gets the more voltage you'll get, you also run the risk of the spark deciding to find an easier path to ground than the plug electrode.
The HEI would be a much easier way to do it than all that wiring harness crap, and separate module and coil mess. One wire to power the HEI, and run your plug wires...set the timing and DONE.

DUI that's the distributor you are thinking of has clearance issues in most Mopars.

The Mopar Performance kit is the best way to go. However, the fast advance curve can cause issues if there is a low vacuum signal at idle. It will cause the timing to vary at idle.

 

[Emission]

Thanks for that useful tidbit of info, lots of good things that I'll keep in mind when re-doing the system. I was waiting to change the spark plugs until after I replaced the rest of the parts so that I would get maximum benefit, so I haven't looked at what my spark plug gaps are right now, but If I adjust them to just slightly more spaced than stock, it should produce the desired effect.

The HEI distributor sounds like a very nice option. I was skimming through my Summit Racing catalogue and spotted the HEI distributors and wondered what they we're all about. The whole one-wire deal and lack of a separate coil/module/harness sounds very appealing, and I think they have models that fit my engine, so I'll definitely look into it.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode
DUI that's the distributor you are thinking of has clearance issues in most Mopars.

The Mopar Performance kit is the best way to go. However, the fast advance curve can cause issues if there is a low vacuum signal at idle. It will cause the timing to vary at idle.

No, not talking about DUI specifically, although they do make a nice unit. Several makers make HEI's for about everything.

What clearance issues? Not that familiar with the Mopar setup. Don't see why they'd make them if you couldn't install them.

HEI is the absolute best and easiest bet, IMO. One wire install, (or two if you have a tach), no wiring harness or other extra work, and it's all self-contained.

Plus, they are dirt-simple to tune the advance curve if need be.

edit: the DUI's are around 400 bucks. So are MSD's. The "house brands" at Summit and Jegs are usually under 200, and you have everything you need except plug wires.

and keep in mind, I'm not saying the Mopar conversion isn't a good option as well, just that the HEI will be much easier, not to mention a better, cleaner look.

 

[Emission]

I was thinking of picking up the kit from MSD for $400 that includes everything from the distributor and coil down to the spark plug wires, and it includes even higher quality wires than I have in there now, 8.5mm vs 8.0mm. I might even grab one of their ignition boxes so I can hook up a tach if I'd like, which is a nice thing to have.

I'll probably go with this kit. It's the easiest to set-up that I've seen so far and it appears to be of high-quality. I'll probably have to make new spark plug wires, but for this system it's worth it.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Can't go wrong with that. It'll be superior to any stock setup.

 

[Emission]

Thanks for the help guys .

 

[Demon-Xanth]

440's have the distributors in the front if I'm remembering correctly, I don't think it'd have a clearance issue. The LA's might since it's in the back and would hit the firewall though.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
440's have the distributors in the front if I'm remembering correctly, I don't think it'd have a clearance issue. The LA's might since it's in the back and would hit the firewall though.

there can be issues up front depending on options, heater hoses, radiator hoses and manifold issues too. Its best to mock it up and see.

I just prefer the Mopar style, that's all.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Emission
I was thinking of picking up the kit from MSD for $400 that includes everything from the distributor and coil down to the spark plug wires, and it includes even higher quality wires than I have in there now, 8.5mm vs 8.0mm. I might even grab one of their ignition boxes so I can hook up a tach if I'd like, which is a nice thing to have.

I'll probably go with this kit. It's the easiest to set-up that I've seen so far and it appears to be of high-quality. I'll probably have to make new spark plug wires, but for this system it's worth it.

The MSD stuff is great too. Way easier to adjust mechanical advance as well as vacuum advance. Roller bearings also are a big plus.

So come on and tell what car this is for.

 

[Emission]

Wow I can't believe I haven't mentioned the car, it's a 1970 Chrysler New Yorker. I'm doing an entire engine overhaul really, replacing a lot of parts that are corroded and such.

Unfortunately $400 only gets me the distributor. I need an additional $80 for the 8.5mm wires, and $40 for a new coil. Ah well, it seems worth it versus the Mopar kit with the external box.

 

[herm0016]

ha.. an old land barge. neat old cars.
I second the HEI. we went from points in our 402 Big Blocks in a chevelle and a pickup to HEI, they work great and are very easy to adjust.

 

[Emission]

I'd do HEI but I can't find a distributor that's compatible with this 440.