Dissent Inside Military Grows As Morale Continues To Drop

jpeyton

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Aug 23, 2003
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Text

By IAN URBINA

Cpl. April Ponce De Leon describes herself and her husband as ?gung-ho marines,? and in two weeks she deploys to Iraq, where her husband has been fighting since March.

But she says she stopped believing in the war last month after a telephone conversation with him.

?He started telling me that he doesn?t want me to go and do the things he has been doing,? said Corporal Ponce De Leon, 22, speaking by telephone as she boxed up her belongings in their apartment near Camp Lejeune, N.C.

?He said that ?we have all decided that it?s time for us to go home.? I said, ?You mean go home and rest?? And he said, ?I mean go home and not go back.?

?This is from someone who has been training for the past nine years to go to combat and who has spent his whole life wanting to be a marine,? she continued. ?That?s when I realized I couldn?t support the war anymore, even though I will follow my orders.?

In voicing her shifting view on the war in Iraq, Corporal Ponce De Leon is not alone. In the past few weeks, President Bush has faced defections within his own party over his handling of the war by Republicans who have cited a growing weariness among military families as having played a central role in changing their opinions. At a news conference last week, Senator Pete V. Domenici, Republican of New Mexico, who had been a staunch supporter of the president?s handling of the war, said he had sensed a shift among some military families. He recounted how a father he spoke to recently said his son was proud to serve.

?But then this man said, ?I?m asking you if you couldn?t do a little extra to get our troops back,? ? Mr. Domenici said, recalling the conversation. ?I heard nothing like that a couple years ago.?

Experts cite three causes of eroding morale among military families: longer and multiple deployments, the continued chaos in Baghdad, and the growing death toll ? April, May and June were the deadliest three months for American troops since the invasion of Iraq in March 2003.

Among military members and their immediate families who responded to a national New York Times/CBS News poll in May, two-thirds said things were going badly, compared with just over half, about 53 percent, a year ago. Fewer than half of the families and military members said the United States did the right thing in invading Iraq. A year ago more than half held that view, according to the a similar poll taken last July. The May poll had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 7 percentage points.

Recruiting efforts are also suffering. Despite granting more waivers for recruits with criminal backgrounds, offering larger cash bonuses, loosening age and weight restrictions, and accepting more high school dropouts, the Army said it had missed its recruiting targets in May and June. Pentagon officials say resistance from families is a major recruiting obstacle. Membership is also increasing among antiwar groups that represent the active military and veterans. Military Families Speak Out, one such group, which was started in the fall of 2002, now has about 3,500 member families. About 500 of them have joined since January.

Nancy Lessin, a founder of the group, said it was noteworthy that about a hundred military wives living on bases had joined in the last three months. Wives living on bases, she said, are more reluctant than parents of soldiers to speak out.

For Beth Pyritz, 27, who recently joined the group, the turning point came last month when her husband, an Army specialist, left for Iraq for his third deployment.

?I voted for Bush twice,? said Ms. Pyritz, seated with her five children in their home at Fort Eustis near Virginia Beach. ?I backed this war from the beginning, but I don?t think I can look my kids in the eyes anymore, if my husband comes home in a wooden box, and tell them he died for a good reason.?

She said her views began changing late last year as the administration seemed slow to release information about the chaos unfolding in Baghdad and crystallized when military deployments were extended to 15 months from 12 months.

Paul Jones, 51, a social worker who for three years has been counseling members of the National Guard and Army Reserve, said he had seen a growing number of troops who were angry and on edge, which is fueling dissent within military families.

?The soldiers have come home from a war zone with a whole different perception of how things are,? said Mr. Jones, 51, who did not want to divulge the base where he works to protect the soldiers? confidentiality.

In the past six months, he said, among the units he counsels there have been 14 drunken driving incidents involving military members, compared with two incidents a year ago; four soldiers per unit divorcing, compared with two a year ago, and six soldiers per unit struggling to interact appropriately with their children, compared with one case a year ago.

Although some military members return from Iraq with a renewed sense of focus, he said, ?a lot of them have what we call ?the thousand mile stare.? ?

He continued, ?A pothole gets them jittery because it reminds them of potential bombs. They wake up with night terrors and shove their spouse out of bed while still partially asleep.?

The military has taken steps to try to deal with the growing strain among the troops. Some who are re-enlisting have been given the option of picking locations outside Iraq, including the United States, Europe and Korea, and others are allowed to choose a military school for retraining in a different job classification.

Many military families still support Mr. Bush and his handling of the war. Outspoken dissent from soldiers overseas is rare. Dissent, including among some members of the military and their families, was wider spread during the Vietnam War, in part because of the draft. Although soldiers have varied views on the war and on the Iraqis? ability to resolve their differences, most focus on dealing with the threats they face, staying alive and carrying out their orders.

On Tuesday, the Army chief of staff, Gen. George W. Casey Jr., said the Army would soon announce plans to give more money to programs that help family members of deployed soldiers cope with the long deployments.

For some, the Army?s efforts have come too late. Penny Preszler, 46, a furniture refurbisher in Phoenix, said she had stopped wearing red on Fridays as she had done for the past year to honor the war effort. ?It was when my son started saying he wished he could be injured so he could come home,? Ms. Preszler said.

?There was no pride left in his voice, just this robotic sense of despair,? she said, describing a telephone conversation with her son, Skyler, 24, an infantryman on his second tour of duty in Iraq. ?Mom, we killed women on the street today. We killed kids on bikes. We had no choice,? she recounted his saying.

The same week, she said, her son told her he thought he had seen the worst when he had to pick up the body parts of his dead buddy, but then he saw an Iraqi boy picking up what was left of his dead father.

Jaine Darwin, a psychologist and a director of Strategic Outreach to Families of All Reservists, said many families she counseled said they felt trapped.

?Some of them say they fear we can?t leave Iraq because the job isn?t done,? said Ms. Darwin, whose organization, which is apolitical, offers free mental health therapy to military families. ?But they still feel like it?s time to get out.?

Their frustrations have led some soldiers to take drastic steps.

Iraq Veterans Against the War, started in July 2004, has grown to 500 members, with 100 joining in the past two months. The Appeal for Redress Project, which since last September has been advising active duty military members and reservists on how to write to their representatives in Congress expressing their opposition to the war, has about 2,000 members, almost half of whom have joined in the past six months.

Michelle Robidoux, an organizer with the War Resisters Support Campaign in Toronto, which advises Americans who have deserted or crossed the border to avoid military service, said in recent months the group has received calls that included two Army sergeants and a Navy chief petty officer.

In the 2006 fiscal year, the Army reported that 3,196 soldiers had deserted, compared with 2,543 in fiscal year 2005 and 2,357 soldiers in fiscal year 2004. In the first quarter of the current fiscal year, which began Oct. 1, 871 soldiers deserted.

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This kind of collateral damage is one that many people seem to forget about; the damage war does to our military and their families. Continuing use of failed strategies, increased violence, and quickly eroding support at home make Iraq an entirely different situation now than it was back in 2003 for our troops. We need to bring them back home as soon as possible, so they can defend our homeland; not be used as butchers in a war for profit.

This could explain why military contributions for the 2008 Presidential Election heavily favor anti-war candidates like Ron Paul and Barack Obama.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I believe this war will tramatise the US military like no event since the Vietnam war---where strangely--the soldier and not the politician gets blamed for losing a politically botched war. And the greatest military cost is going to be borne by reserve units who are going to find it harder and harder to get recruits.

But for an organization that prides itself in being able to fight anyone in the world---the US military is totally gutless when it comes time to tell its Commander and Chief that he is totally Full of Sh!T---the lesson of Shinseki turns their guts to water as they will totally prostitute themselves while saying can do over the wasted lives of those they command.

Let us face the facts---Iraq was a military problem our armed forces solved in two weeks of combat---and now Iraq is a political problem and has been for better than four years. And we are all still waiting for GWB&co to START doing the political things needed ---even after we gave him a blueprint handbook in Baker Hamilton.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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My Reserve unit's morale is quite good; as is my own - and we've all been deployed several times each.
 

keird

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
3,714
9
81
I'm deployed and my morale is okay. I'm in the National Guard. I have been deployed on various missions for nearly 4 years since 9/11. Will this get published?
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
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?I voted for Bush twice,? said Ms. Pyritz, seated with her five children in their home at Fort Eustis near Virginia Beach. ?I backed this war from the beginning, but I don?t think I can look my kids in the eyes anymore, if my husband comes home in a wooden box, and tell them he died for a good reason.?

A reminder that the majority of voters in the United States got what they wanted in 2004. Stay the course.
 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
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Originally posted by: Balt
?I voted for Bush twice,? said Ms. Pyritz, seated with her five children in their home at Fort Eustis near Virginia Beach. ?I backed this war from the beginning, but I don?t think I can look my kids in the eyes anymore, if my husband comes home in a wooden box, and tell them he died for a good reason.?

A reminder that the majority of voters in the United States got what they wanted in 2004. Stay the course.

Dumb asses reap what they sow???
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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palehorse74 and keird,

How do you think the war is going? Good, average, badly?

Do you think the US did the right thing invading Iraq? Yes or no?

Your families agree with your viewpoints?

I'm sure what you guys are saying is true for yourselves; can't say it holds true for the majority, though.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: palehorse74
My Reserve unit's morale is quite good; as is my own - and we've all been deployed several times each.

You're in the minority, and aren't very quick on the uptake to begin with.
 

jrenz

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
1,788
0
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Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: palehorse74
My Reserve unit's morale is quite good; as is my own - and we've all been deployed several times each.

You're in the minority, and aren't very quick on the uptake to begin with.

Support our troops, right? Or only when they say what you want them to...
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,908
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Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: palehorse74
My Reserve unit's morale is quite good; as is my own - and we've all been deployed several times each.

You're in the minority, and aren't very quick on the uptake to begin with.

I myself and pleased there are many who can handle the stress. I would not want an army required to fight a real and dangerous enemy threat, unlike Iraq, and fold up in ten minutes. My thanks to those who serve. May you all come home with your physical and mental health.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: palehorse74
My Reserve unit's morale is quite good; as is my own - and we've all been deployed several times each.
You're in the minority, and aren't very quick on the uptake to begin with.
You must have the inside scoop... please, do tell!

And thank you Moonbeam! - remember, nothing here should be taken personally; and, at the end of the day, I'm sure every single one of us would have a blast sharing some good single malt with the others!

be safe...
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
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Originally posted by: palehorse74
My Reserve unit's morale is quite good; as is my own - and we've all been deployed several times each.

Yup, I'm in the NG after doing four years of active duty, including getting deployed to Iraq. I'll probably go back within the next couple years. My morale's fine. Most of the people I served with in Iraq had decent morale. And we weren't admin or logistics types; we were kickin' down doors, getting shot at, working 16-hour days, and everything.

What I don't think jpeyton et al understand is that this should not be taken as implied support of the administration's policy of indefinitely continuing the war.

My own explanation is that soldiers' morale comes from local sources rather than global ones. That is to say, in Iraq, you don't work your ass off to make sure Bush's policies come to fruition. You work to make sure the people you're in charge of come back okay. And if they do, that's a pretty good day. In regard to leadership, morale is much more dependent on the first three levels above you (that is, your boss, your boss's boss, and your boss's boss's boss) than on the decision-makers in Washington and the Pentagon. Beyond voting in elections, there's no way to change decisions made ten levels above you, so why let it affect your morale?
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
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You're in the minority, and aren't very quick on the uptake to begin with

Am I also in the Minority? I don't know of anyone in my unit that is here that didn't volunter to be here in Iraq. Most of us here are planning on finding odd missions here and there when we get back to stave off the boredom!

Lifes not roses in the military...never has been, but we should have known that when we signed on the line and raised the Right Hand. If not, then we are either confused about what armies do to each other, or just ignorant in the ways of the world.



 

datalink7

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
16,765
6
81
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: palehorse74
My Reserve unit's morale is quite good; as is my own - and we've all been deployed several times each.

You're in the minority, and aren't very quick on the uptake to begin with.

How exactly is he in the minority?

I am directly in charge of a platoon of soldiers, and interact with hundreds more. Out of everyone I interact with, I know of three who are having a hard time coping, and two of those don't want to be sent home, just some sleeping pills to help them sleep.

Morale is fine in my unit and most everyone I interact with. Does that mean we all support the war? No. Some do, some don't. But we don't think about it most of the time. We stay mission focused as that is what keeps you and your buddies alive.
 

novasatori

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2003
3,851
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Originally posted by: datalink7
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: palehorse74
My Reserve unit's morale is quite good; as is my own - and we've all been deployed several times each.

You're in the minority, and aren't very quick on the uptake to begin with.

How exactly is he in the minority?

I am directly in charge of a platoon of soldiers, and interact with hundreds more. Out of everyone I interact with, I know of three who are having a hard time coping, and two of those don't want to be sent home, just some sleeping pills to help them sleep.

Morale is fine in my unit and most everyone I interact with. Does that mean we all support the war? No. Some do, some don't. But we don't think about it most of the time. We stay mission focused as that is what keeps you and your buddies alive.

Didn't you know? No one listens to the positive voices, only the negative ones.


stay safe
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: datalink7
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: palehorse74
My Reserve unit's morale is quite good; as is my own - and we've all been deployed several times each.

You're in the minority, and aren't very quick on the uptake to begin with.

How exactly is he in the minority?

I am directly in charge of a platoon of soldiers, and interact with hundreds more. Out of everyone I interact with, I know of three who are having a hard time coping, and two of those don't want to be sent home, just some sleeping pills to help them sleep.

Morale is fine in my unit and most everyone I interact with. Does that mean we all support the war? No. Some do, some don't. But we don't think about it most of the time. We stay mission focused as that is what keeps you and your buddies alive.


Which I would think would affect your objectivity on evaluating what morale really is. You have a tough job to do and you HAVE to stay focused on it. It seems to me the best (perhaps only) way to do that is to focus on the positivies and ignore the negatives.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: datalink7
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: palehorse74
My Reserve unit's morale is quite good; as is my own - and we've all been deployed several times each.

You're in the minority, and aren't very quick on the uptake to begin with.

How exactly is he in the minority?

I am directly in charge of a platoon of soldiers, and interact with hundreds more. Out of everyone I interact with, I know of three who are having a hard time coping, and two of those don't want to be sent home, just some sleeping pills to help them sleep.

Morale is fine in my unit and most everyone I interact with. Does that mean we all support the war? No. Some do, some don't. But we don't think about it most of the time. We stay mission focused as that is what keeps you and your buddies alive.


Which I would think would affect your objectivity on evaluating what morale really is. You have a tough job to do and you HAVE to stay focused on it. It seems to me the best (perhaps only) way to do that is to focus on the positivies and ignore the negatives.
Did you just tell a platoon leader that he does not understand, or even know how to recognize, the morale within his own unit?

ridiculous!

/thread
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: datalink7
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: palehorse74
My Reserve unit's morale is quite good; as is my own - and we've all been deployed several times each.

You're in the minority, and aren't very quick on the uptake to begin with.

How exactly is he in the minority?

I am directly in charge of a platoon of soldiers, and interact with hundreds more. Out of everyone I interact with, I know of three who are having a hard time coping, and two of those don't want to be sent home, just some sleeping pills to help them sleep.

Morale is fine in my unit and most everyone I interact with. Does that mean we all support the war? No. Some do, some don't. But we don't think about it most of the time. We stay mission focused as that is what keeps you and your buddies alive.


Which I would think would affect your objectivity on evaluating what morale really is. You have a tough job to do and you HAVE to stay focused on it. It seems to me the best (perhaps only) way to do that is to focus on the positivies and ignore the negatives.
Did you just tell a platoon leader that he does not understand, or know how to recognize, the morale of his own unit?

ridiculous!

/thread

He admits that some are for the war and some are against it. How do you fight a war with soldiers who are expected to kill human beings when they are against the war? That's asking a lot, and as he points out they focus on the task at hand, which is staying alive.

A rather simplistic view of what morale means and it doesn't paint the whole picture in my view, but coming from our resident millitary intelligence propagandist I suppose your view of his statments is to be expected.

 

Kwaipie

Golden Member
Nov 30, 2005
1,326
0
0
Does supporting the troops in Iraq mean that they all get the benefit of doubt and a free pass?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,781
8,884
136
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
More of the price we pay when we empower a disaster.

People voting with their feet classifies as a price we pay? I think not.

As to the OP, let's get something straight. It's our performance and NOT ideological opposition that turns me, and a great deal of people against "support" for it.
 

MonkeyK

Golden Member
May 27, 2001
1,396
8
81
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
How do you fight a war with soldiers who are expected to kill human beings when they are against the war?

Umm, it might just be part of his job to deal with that.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
How do you fight a war with soldiers who are expected to kill human beings when they are against the war?

Umm, it might just be part of his job to deal with that.

True, but that's what the Nazi's claimed about the Holocaust too.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
How do you fight a war with soldiers who are expected to kill human beings when they are against the war?

Umm, it might just be part of his job to deal with that.

True, but that's what the Nazi's claimed about the Holocaust too.
ummm, whoa.

what exact parallel are you attempting to draw there?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
How do you fight a war with soldiers who are expected to kill human beings when they are against the war?

Umm, it might just be part of his job to deal with that.

True, but that's what the Nazi's claimed about the Holocaust too.
ummm, whoa.

what exact parallel are you attempting to draw there?

Parrallel? It's the Slippery slope argument. Where is the line here, or do you think we all should just blindly do as we're told??

I personally haven't met the man I'd blindly follow into battle.