Dish Network and an LCD

[WaTaGuMp]

I just recently jumped to DN from cable and well since I am using a 14 year old TV I decided to get me an LCD. So yesterday I picked up a Samsung LNT 3253H and after hooking it up and trying for hours to get it to look like I thought it should it just never did. Anyhow I took back the TV cause not only did it look bad it had a block of dead pixels or something that didnt sit well with me.

My question is this I am currently using the DVR they gave me for free http://www.dishnetwork.com/dow.../625_Prod_SheetWeb.pdf
As you can see all outputs are analog and I have a feeling this is why the TV looked the way it did. Would this cause the picture to not be up to par for what an LCD should be? I tried both composite and s-video and both looked bad and I have a feeling its cause they dont put out the proper resolution. Any advice from the experts would help cause the CSR I spoke to didnt help much.

 

[Blayze]

Your Standard Definition channels, that you currently get with the Dish 625 receiver, may not look as good on a LCD HDTV. S-Video would be a better choice than Composite. However to get the full effect of the new TV you should have tried some HD channels. If you just switched to Dish Network it might be hard to get them to upgrade you to a HD receiver without "purchasing" a new one (probably a few $100, and a new contract).

You can always try to see what HD channels you can get over the air with a antenna. Depending on your location you should be able to get some, if not all your locals this way.

If the LCD had a block of dead pixels I don't blame you for returning it. Some HDTVs are better than others with Standard Definition channels.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Originally posted by: Blayze
Your Standard Definition channels, that you currently get with the Dish 625 receiver, may not look as good on a LCD HDTV. S-Video would be a better choice than Composite. However to get the full effect of the new TV you should have tried some HD channels. If you just switched to Dish Network it might be hard to get them to upgrade you to a HD receiver without "purchasing" a new one (probably a few $100, and a new contract).

You can always try to see what HD channels you can get over the air with a antenna. Depending on your location you should be able to get some, if not all your locals this way.

If the LCD had a block of dead pixels I don't blame you for returning it. Some HDTVs are better than others with Standard Definition channels.

Thx for the reply, am I correct tho by assuming the picture looked bad based on the connections the receiver has? Wont I need a digital connection either HDMI, DVI etc to run the proper res, right now with the way the TV looks buying an LCD using this receiver is not an option, IMHO its a waste of money. It seems like they gave me a receiver that has zero room for upgrading my TV which doesnt make any sense. I am not really worrying about HD right now I just want to be able to have an LCD look how it should for an 800$ TV.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

It looks bad because it's a standard def Dish signal on a high def TV. Using s-video may improve the quality a bit, but better connections than that aren't going to make a difference. My buddy has Dish on his HD TV and it really doesn't come close to what the TV is capable of. Sometimes it looks just plain bad. I also have Dish on my SD TV and running into my PC over a tuner card and am not that impressed with the quality either, especially on my PC monitor. Unless you have good HD sources (or at least ones that upscale) or are using it for console games I don't think an HD TV upgrade is really worth it at the moment unless you just need a new TV.

 

[kalrith]

Think of an HDTV like a computer monitor. You have a screen made to run at 1366x768 resolution, and you're sending it an SD signal at 640x480. If you had a LCD computer monitor with a native res of 1280x960 and set it to 640x480, it's going to look like crap too. It works a little differently with TVs because everything scales to the native resolution, but it's basically the same idea.

You can get HD through Dish, or you might be able to get your local channels in HD with a over-the-air antenna. I can't get my locals in HD through Dish, so I plan on getting an antenna for the locals even with the Dish HD subscription.

HD programming is either sent as 720p (1280x720 progressive) or 1080i (1920x1080 interlaced). Both of those are MUCH higher than the 640x480 of SD. There is no 1080p TV programming as of yet even though a few devices like PS3 and blu-ray are 1080p. That's a completely different topic though.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

This is gonna be a real PITA, I just spoke to someone at Frys who has Dish Network and a Samsung TV and hes running an SD signal into his and he says it looks fine. Now I wonder if I had a bad TV. HD right now is out of the question im not spending 20 bucks a month plus the cost to upgrade my receiver. I just wanna possibly get a better TV and have it look decent. The thing is the info from you folks make it sound like it cant happen

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Well, "decent" and "fine" are subjective. SD on an HDTV can look decent I suppose, but it's a far cry from what the TV will do with an HD signal. It's possible the TV you got was bad, go to Fry's and check out their display TV's. Get them to run SD signals to a few (if they aren't already) and see how things look there. I wouldn't worry with HD on Dish right now either. It's expensive and I think only a handful of channels are in actual HD. Try a decent OTA antenna and see what local HD channels you can get. There are a few upscaling DVD players for less than $100 that you might want to take a look at too (I personally wouldn't invest in a HD-DVD or BluRay player now either).

Just a few things to add about what I've noticed with Dish. On both my SD CRT TV and PC monitor I've noticed some blurriness from what I think is some kind of temporal comb filter being used. Everything seems to have a very slight motion blur to it. On my buddy's TV I can't say for certain I've noticed this, but there is a very noticeable pixelation to the picture sometimes. Color blocking and such. It really makes me question whether the Dish signal is even an honest 480i. He's got his dvd player hooked up with composite (ugh) but it still looks much, much better than the Dish signal (over S-video). The TV stretching the 4:3 Dish signal might be a factor here though.

 

[kalrith]

Read up on how well different TVs handle SD content. Some reviews mention it. You can search at avsforum.com and find a lot of info there. The TVs have to take a signal that is 640x480 resolution and scale it to the native res (i.e. 1366x768). Some TVs do this really well and can make a good-quality SD signal look pretty decent. Other TVs do a really crappy job of this. From what I've read, plasmas typically handle SD content better than LCDs, and Pioneer plasmas have some of the best processing. However, if you're looking to save money, you probably won't want to spend the extra for the Pioneer.

Also, component typically does the best job of transferring SD. My Dish DVR also only has S-video out, which is better than the RCA cables, but not as good as component. If you do get another TV, at the very least go to antennaweb.org and enter your address. It will show what (if any) local HD channels you can get and how powerful of an antenna you'll need. If you're in the city, you might get away with a $30 antenna you can set on top of your TV.

 

[bunker]

I can attest to what kalrith says. I have a Philips plasma and a DirecTV standard def DVR (hi-def coming next week). Everyone who's seen the picture is fairly amazed at how good the standard def picture looks on my tv. It looked like crap with a S-Video connection but improved tremendously with component cables.

 

[SearchMaster]

I just got an HD receiver to replace an SD receiver with Dish. The difference is incredible. You are absolutely wasting your TV by using an SD signal with it. Through component, even the SD channels are a huge improvement over the previous receiver.

Dish is running a promotion where you should be able to get the HD DVR for $50 after rebate (we lease ours)...the HD channel package is a relative ripoff at $20/month but the first 6 months are free.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Originally posted by: SearchMaster
I just got an HD receiver to replace an SD receiver with Dish. The difference is incredible. You are absolutely wasting your TV by using an SD signal with it. Through component, even the SD channels are a huge improvement over the previous receiver.

Dish is running a promotion where you should be able to get the HD DVR for $50 after rebate (we lease ours)...the HD channel package is a relative ripoff at $20/month but the first 6 months are free.

I spoke to DN about the whole thing already, the CSR told me the receiver would be $199.00 for the 622 with the DVR $169.00 for the 222 with no DVR. The whole thing right now just has me pretty pissed off I think its rediculous that the way the technology is going right now that people have to put up with the TV's looking the way they do unless they go with HD. I am not about to fork out 20 bucks a month for HD when its not even every channel.

Today I was at a clients house and asked him if he had an LCD and if he had HD etc and he did, so he took me inside so I could see what his looked like. He has a 50" plasma running through a component connection. Needless to say unless it was on an HD channel I felt the picture looked like shit. I am starting to agree with Gonad that HD is a waste right now and hopefully when 2009 rolls around everything will be peachy. I also agree that using SD on an HDTV is wasting the TV but we dont have much choice right now except to wait it out. To make myself feel a little better I bought some Paradigm speakers today.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Does anyone know how its going to work once 2009 rolls around. Will the resolution be raised for SD signals so if people dont have HD the LCD's will at least look much better, or is it just gonna make people get HD to have a good picture at a lower cost?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

My understanding is people will either be grabbing the digital HD signals with their HD tuners or will need converter boxes that take the HD signal and convert it back down to lower res analog. There won't be anymore SD signals. I don't think anyone knows if downscaled HD will look better than SD does now. It very well might depending on the coverter box, but I hope it would be a moot point for anyone with an HD TV since everything should be in HD anyway by 2009.