DirectX 11 details

[Aberforth]

MS has released some details on DX 11, personally I can't wait for the beta sdk

-Full support (including all DX11 hardware features) on Windows Vista as well as future versions of Windows

-Compatibility with DirectX 10 and 10.1 hardware, as well as support for new DirectX 11 hardware

-New compute shader technology that lays the groundwork for the GPU to be used for more than just 3D graphics, so that developers can take advantage of the graphics card as a parallel processor

-Multi-threaded resource handling that will allow games to better take advantage of multi-core machines

-Support for tessellation, which blurs the line between super high quality pre-rendered scenes and scenes rendered in real-time, allowing game developers to refine models to be smoother and more attractive when seen up close

source

 

[SickBeast]

I really hope the industry reverts to OpenGL or moves to a new standard. Hopefully Vista will continue to do damage and it will. I would love to see Linux become a gaming platform.

 

[x2 3600 rules sazakky]

I know. tHE dx STANDARD IS reminiscing back to 95-96 of the beginning of the DX standards. Back then, DX coding had no allegiation to OPenGL although the collision of API's can cause tragedies abound.
Also, Direct Input inverts the direction of DX tech.

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I really hope the industry reverts to OpenGL or moves to a new standard. Hopefully Vista will continue to do damage and it will. I would love to see Linux become a gaming platform.

+1 billion

MS has released some details on DX 11, personally I can't wait for the beta sdk

-Full support (including all DX11 hardware features) on Windows Vista as well as future versions of Windows

-Compatibility with DirectX 10 and 10.1 hardware, as well as support for new DirectX 11 hardware

-New compute shader technology that lays the groundwork for the GPU to be used for more than just 3D graphics, so that developers can take advantage of the graphics card as a parallel processor

-Multi-threaded resource handling that will allow games to better take advantage of multi-core machines

-Support for tessellation, which blurs the line between super high quality pre-rendered scenes and scenes rendered in real-time, allowing game developers to refine models to be smoother and more attractive when seen up close

Some pretty cool features- the tessellation has been long overdue, it has been supported by ATI since the R600.

-New compute shader technology that lays the groundwork for the GPU to be used for more than just 3D graphics, so that developers can take advantage of the graphics card as a parallel processor

GPU Physics?

 

[x2 3600 rules sazakky]

GPU physis includes complex c+++ language in the binary standard library of 8762.
i doubt it'll take off as this standard has strict standards. the 5087 library is more dynamic

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Sylvanas

-New compute shader technology that lays the groundwork for the GPU to be used for more than just 3D graphics, so that developers can take advantage of the graphics card as a parallel processor

GPU Physics?

Yes, but it's not even necessary. Cards are doing it right now without it. If we can believe NV that PhysX is an open-standard, then really it does seem like AMD is in bed with microsoft. Something is very fishy about the way they have not adopted PhysX.

Is CUDA an open-standard? If it's not and someone at NV reads this: Please make it one!

If it is, and if CUDA remains "closed", I will actually see a need for DX11 and it could potentially rattle the CPU market big-time.

 

[abubakarm]

my favs :

Originally posted by: Aberforth

....

-New compute shader technology that lays the groundwork for the GPU to be used for more than just 3D graphics, so that developers can take advantage of the graphics card as a parallel processor

-Multi-threaded resource handling that will allow games to better take advantage of multi-core machines

....

source

Killer !!!!!!!

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Sylvanas

-New compute shader technology that lays the groundwork for the GPU to be used for more than just 3D graphics, so that developers can take advantage of the graphics card as a parallel processor

GPU Physics?

Yes, but it's not even necessary. Cards are doing it right now without it. If we can believe NV that PhysX is an open-standard, then really it does seem like AMD is in bed with microsoft. Something is very fishy about the way they have not adopted PhysX.

Is CUDA an open-standard? If it's not and someone at NV reads this: Please make it one!

If it is, and if CUDA remains "closed", I will actually see a need for DX11 and it could potentially rattle the CPU market big-time.

There really isn't anything in CUDA to open, it's a low-level API that talks to whatever proprietary ISA a given CUDA-capable Nvidia card uses. Nvidia can't magically make it support AMD GPUs. AMD would either have to code their own back-end to the public API or provide the ISA specs for their GPUs to Nvidia. The latter is extremely unlikely to happen.

This compute shader feature sounds like it is a little higher-level than CUDA and could probably be a front-end to CUDA/AMD equivalent.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: aka1nas

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Sylvanas

-New compute shader technology that lays the groundwork for the GPU to be used for more than just 3D graphics, so that developers can take advantage of the graphics card as a parallel processor

GPU Physics?

Yes, but it's not even necessary. Cards are doing it right now without it. If we can believe NV that PhysX is an open-standard, then really it does seem like AMD is in bed with microsoft. Something is very fishy about the way they have not adopted PhysX.

Is CUDA an open-standard? If it's not and someone at NV reads this: Please make it one!

If it is, and if CUDA remains "closed", I will actually see a need for DX11 and it could potentially rattle the CPU market big-time.

There really isn't anything in CUDA to open, it's a low-level API that talks to whatever proprietary ISA a given CUDA-capable Nvidia card uses. Nvidia can't magically make it support AMD GPUs. AMD would either have to code their own back-end to the public API or provide the ISA specs for their GPUs to Nvidia. The latter is extremely unlikely to happen.

This compute shader feature sounds like it is a little higher-level than CUDA and could probably be a front-end to CUDA/AMD equivalent.

Usually when someone is talking about CUDA, they're talking about both the high-level C-language it uses, and the lower level API itself. Any Microsoft GPGPU API would get broken down to something like CUDA's PTX instructions when compiled for a NV card, but on the opposite end programming for it wouldn't be any higher than writing code for CUDA today.

Anyhow, since Physics weren't explicitly mentioned I wonder if it's safe to assume it's not coming? A GPGPU API (and one that likely will be in conflict with OpenCL at that) does not a physics API make.

The tessellation bit is interesting since it effectively means that AMD "won" there and now NVIDIA will need to put a tessellator in their DX11 GPU. But I'm not too sure what's going to be done with it, AMD's own tessellators have tended to slow down performance by a good bit on what few games use them.

 

[Hauk]

Full support in Windows Vista? I last read DX11 was to be included with Windows 7. Does this mean it will be out sooner than Windows 7?

 

[Sylvanas]

ViRGE : The tessellation bit is interesting since it effectively means that AMD "won" there and now NVIDIA will need to put a tessellator in their DX11 GPU. But I'm not too sure what's going to be done with it, AMD's own tessellators have tended to slow down performance by a good bit on what few games use them.

What games currently out, take advantage and make use of AMD's tessellator? I have seen or heard nothing of this, only seen some cool tech demos about it and that's it. Let's hope Microsoft can see the light in including more interesting features like this, remember 3DC compression? Truform? If Microsoft could include such things in an API I would imagine it would make it much easier for devs to implement.

 

[ViRGE]

Sorry, I should have been more specific. You are right that the only thing out using the R600 tessellation feature are tech demos, and that's what I meant. I was in a hurry, so sue me

Anyhow, 3Dc is in DX10, so Microsoft has been listening. TruForm was just an earlier version of tessellation, BTW.

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Sorry, I should have been more specific. You are right that the only thing out using the R600 tessellation feature are tech demos, and that's what I meant. I was in a hurry, so sue me

Anyhow, 3Dc is in DX10, so Microsoft has been listening. TruForm was just an earlier version of tessellation, BTW.

Thought so . Good to hear that about 3Dc and Truform, now it's up to the devs.

 

[taltamir]

mmm... full support NOT for GPU physics... but for GPU processing in general? wow... if this is true then MS just set out on the path to destroy the x86 chipset monopoly... Which might be the best thing it does for humanity since windows95 (which created the "information age" by making computers usable by muggles)

 

[ViRGE]

Not really, Taltamir. Here are the things GPUs are good at: Calculating lots of floating point numbers in parallel. And now the things GPUs aren't good at: Integer math, branching logic, and everything else not involving floating point math. As a souped-up FPU, there are lots of activities GPUs can beat a CPU at, but there are plenty more for which you will want a traditional CPU. x86 isn't going anywhere.

 

[x2 3600 rules sazakky]

x86 involves hyper binary

 

[Genx87]

New compute shader technology that lays the groundwork for the GPU to be used for more than just 3D graphics, so that developers can take advantage of the graphics card as a parallel processor

I thought this is what they touted in DX10?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I really hope the industry reverts to OpenGL or moves to a new standard. Hopefully Vista will continue to do damage and it will. I would love to see Linux become a gaming platform.

That would require Linux to break 1% marketshare on the desktop

OpenGL has its place but clearly gaming is getting out of its area.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: SteelSix
Full support in Windows Vista? I last read DX11 was to be included with Windows 7. Does this mean it will be out sooner than Windows 7?

No, in the interview it was said that DX11 will be released for Vista at the same time it's released for Windows 7 (ie: when Windows 7 comes out). Hence, we have 2 more years of DX10 in front of us.

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I really hope the industry reverts to OpenGL or moves to a new standard. Hopefully Vista will continue to do damage and it will. I would love to see Linux become a gaming platform.

Why? OpenGL is no better or worse than Direct3D. I've used both, and I can say that while I love OpenGL, Direct3D at least in its latest incarnations are a lot easier to work with and expose a lot more functionality right out of the box. OpenGL has the advantage of being portable, but let's be honest - Unix sucks as a game platform simply from it's architectural standpoint. Hell, it took some 20 years for them to finally put a usable GUI on it.

 

[Aberforth]

Any idea when the SDK will be out?

oh btw, I see people having problems with DX10 being vista exclusive. That's because DX10 is dependent on vista's memory manager based on the new driver model- a change that was absolutely necessary. So the subsequent versions of DX would work as long as the driver model remains the same. In reality dx10 in xp would run like crap.

 

[hooflung]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
but let's be honest - Unix sucks as a game platform simply from it's architectural standpoint. Hell, it took some 20 years for them to finally put a usable GUI on it.

I think you are just being overly judgmental and unfair in your assessments.

a) Linux isn't Unix

b) Unix isn't Linux

c) Linux isn't BSD

d) BSD isn't Linux

e) Windows NT's architectural roots are in OS/2 and VMS

f) OS/2 and VMS from an architectural standpoint suck for game platforms

Therefore, if you want to discount Linux- oh I am sorry Unix, from being a game platform then you must also think Windows also is bad for gaming.

It took Microsoft 12 years to get NT right for consumers. It inject hundreds of millions into research and development, had to break deals with IBM and be anti competitive with to do it. So forgive me if I think you are being a sensationalist. Linux has matured in a Open Source ecology and it can and does run games just fine. It has features in its gui that Vista borrowed. It can even run Windows games as well.

You sir, make no sense.

Furthermore,

 

[Sheninat0r]

Furthermore?

 

[SunnyD]

.

 

[SunnyD]

... sorry, misposted.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: SteelSix
Full support in Windows Vista? I last read DX11 was to be included with Windows 7. Does this mean it will be out sooner than Windows 7?

No, in the interview it was said that DX11 will be released for Vista at the same time it's released for Windows 7 (ie: when Windows 7 comes out). Hence, we have 2 more years of DX10 in front of us.

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I really hope the industry reverts to OpenGL or moves to a new standard. Hopefully Vista will continue to do damage and it will. I would love to see Linux become a gaming platform.

Why? OpenGL is no better or worse than Direct3D. I've used both, and I can say that while I love OpenGL, Direct3D at least in its latest incarnations are a lot easier to work with and expose a lot more functionality right out of the box. OpenGL has the advantage of being portable, but let's be honest - Unix sucks as a game platform simply from it's architectural standpoint. Hell, it took some 20 years for them to finally put a usable GUI on it.

Im starting to have a feeling DX11 will be timed for the next Xbox, not Windows 7.

Vista isnt holding back DX10, the Xbox 360 is holding back DX10. Its easier to develop a DX9 game for the Xbox and then port it as a DX9 game for Windows, than it is to do a DX10 game and port it to the Xbox/PS3 etc.

And as long as MS is making the Xbox, DirectX will be the dominate API for PC Games.