DirecTv - Switch Question

[TWG1572]

This is a bit of a follow-up to this thread http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2321542 . I am happy to say that I did get the Genie setup, and was able to do some good negotiating on cost/options thanks to the advice I got. :biggrin:

I'll just start out by stating that my wife has officially informed me that from now on I'm going to be home when installs happen. This one sounded like it got a bit painful. On to my question....

In my old setup, we had a large powered "DirecTv approved" splitter. My home is wired with home runs from that splitter to each room. When I got home last night, I found the splitter gone and all the coax cables hanging in air. There are probably 10 or so of them - some rooms have multiple cable jacks.

There was one new splitter added - which Google tells me might be a 2 way SWM splitter. One of the cables from it goes to the power supply and the other is hitched up to one of the cables which evidently goes to my entertainment center. I assume that because it's the only cable jack in the house that gets a satelite signal. I lugged the Genie around and checked some last night - on the other jacks it always died on Step 2 of the setup and says it can't find a signal. I'll also add that when the installer left, he assured my wife that we could get sattelite on any jack in the house.

Is there some sort of wireless connection with the Genie clients that means I don't need to have cable jacks in my other rooms? Seems to good to be true..... (I don't have a client set up yet - plan on adding one in the next couple months once I pull the trigger on a 65" TV)

I called DirecTv and the installer company should be calling me today. I'd like to be a bit more informed before talking to them. My simple mind says I need a bigger splitter in the basement. But my simple mind is often wrong.

On that topic, I was a bit annoyed that the large splitter disappeared. It it was a piece of equipment that DirecTV owned than I got no issues with them taking it back. But it didn't say DirecTV anywhere on it, so I always assumed it was something that the prior owner installed.

 

[imagoon]

Sounds like you are describing the SWM power injector for the dish to me. Is it a semi large gray box that has 2 coax on one end and power on the other? May say "Dish" and "service" on the coax ports? SWM splits via "SWM spliters" which are nothing more than high frequency coax splitters. As for the other receivers, they can be hooked up via Ethernet or utilize the SWM data channel to talk to each other.

It is not at all like the older multivolt 2-4+ powered (relayed) coax splitters DirecTV used to use.

 

[TWG1572]

Unfortunately, I'm at work so I can't look. But it is a small black box with at least one coax and power on the other. Sounds like a power injector, since it's hooked to the "power" end of the thing that looks like a 1 to 2 coax splitter.

I don't have ethernet in all my rooms, so the SWM data channel would be the way to go. I'm assuming that travels on the coax? Which leads me to suspect that i need to ask them to install a 4or 8 way SWM splitter so that I can connect the rooms I need to the main feed so they can talk to each other?

I appreciate the help. I really know enough to be dangerous here, and googling has not done much but confuse me.

 

[imagoon]

Yeah just get a 4 or 8 SWM splitter. Normally they look like one of these 2:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0045DVIP4

Remove the old 1:2. SWM support being hooked up like cable (spliters where ever) but if you have all the runs central this is the way to go.

 

[imagoon]

Also more often than not, you will also get a SWM <-> Ethernet box that you use to feed Internet in to the SWM data channel. You really do want this as the VOD on DirecTV is actually quite decent and comes with channels you pay for. IE you can go to the HBO VOD channel and typically download any movie that is playing on HBO that month if you have HBO. Which is great if you turn on the TV 45 minutes in to a move and want to watch the whole thing.

 

[smitbret]

Why would you get a SMW 8?

Apparently I am not understanding what the problem is or what the proposed solution will do.

If you already have a SWM Splitter, you certainly don't need to upgrade to a SWM 8 with just 2 IRDs on the account. The only reason would need more connectors is for more Receivers. All signals piggyback on the coax cable and any add'l boxes (SWM Power Inserters and Cinema Connection Kits) are connected in series along the coax cables. The SWM PI has to stay connected to the original location and the CCK can be moved to whatever location is most convenient.

 

[TWG1572]

I didn't explain clearly, but a couple reasons.

1) What they installed resembles a splitter such as this http://www.amazon.com/DirecTv-MSPLIT.../dp/B003H2HNQW but one of the out terminals is cabled to the power injector. So I only have one available out terminal on the splitter.

2) I'd like the ability to hook up any of the other cable jacks in the future if we put a TV in the kids's rooms, guest bedroom, etc. For the limited incremental cost of an 8 vs. 2 I'd rather just go 8. Realisticly, 4 would probably be fine too and cover our needs for the next 3-5 years.

 

[smitbret]

Oh, gotcha.

No need to change it now. It can be swapped out at any time.

However, if you order the add'l IRDs through DirecTV, they will insist on sending out a technician to set it up anyway and it will include the installtion of the larger SWM splitter. You'd still need to get add'l clients for each TV location unless it is an RVU equipped Samsung TV.

 

[imagoon]

Considering the 4 vs 8 is like $6 vs $7.50, I did the same thing. Also I assume they didn't give you a passthrough powersupply if they hooked it up that way.

I prefer this one:

http://www.amazon.com/DirecTV-PI-29Z...m+power+supply

Because then you just cable your splitter on to the "out" side.

 

[imagoon]

Oh, gotcha.

No need to change it now. It can be swapped out at any time.

However, if you order the add'l IRDs through DirecTV, they will insist on sending out a technician to set it up anyway and it will include the installtion of the larger SWM splitter. You'd still need to get add'l clients for each TV location unless it is an RVU equipped Samsung TV.

Nah you can get the box shipped with web activation. Once the initial install was done (which only meant put the dish up for me) all the additional boxes didn't require a tech.

 

[TWG1572]

Yeah, I've had some time to google this over the lunch hour now that I know more. My install doesn't look like any of the diagrams I've found out there - and not having a passthrough power supply would explain the difference.

I suspect since we only have one TV now - the tech just decided to wire it for one TV and call it good. It irritates me did that after my wife specifically told him which 4 rooms/jacks we wanted live. If he can't do it because we don't have 4 tv's now - fine. But at least tell us, instead of claiming that the whole house should be live.

 

[smitbret]

Nah you can get the box shipped with web activation. Once the initial install was done (which only meant put the dish up for me) all the additional boxes didn't require a tech.

You used to be able to get the web shipment but they closed that loophole this spring. If you get the boxes from someplace like Amazon or solidsignal.com you can still avoid the install, but if you go through DirecTV.com it will automatically flag that you need a larger splitter and won't let you have the IRD drop shipped anymore. If you aren't using any special offers then it won't make any difference since the IRD costs are the same, but if you are trying to use a free upgrade then you're kind of hosed.

I'm not sure what you guys are referring to about a pass-through power injector. All SWM installs have to have the add'l Power inserter like you linked. That's because the IRDs can't output more than 18v to the LNB on the dish and the SWM LNB requires 21v. He's already got one somewhere in the house and it has to be hooked into the pass through port of the splitter/switch (indicated by the red line). You can also place it before the SWM splitter or SWM 8 on the downfeed from the dish, but it will still need to be near a working AC power outlet.

 

[smitbret]

Dish ------> SWM Splitter or SWM 8 ------>Power Inserter------>Genie

That's the how it should look. Sounds like he put the P.I. on port one of the splitter and the Genie on Port 2. That will work fine.

 

[imagoon]

Dish ------> SWM Splitter or SWM 8 ------>Power Inserter------>Genie

That's the how it should look. Sounds like he put the P.I. on port one of the splitter and the Genie on Port 2. That will work fine.

Passthrough goes Dish <-> power <-> splitter <-> whatever device you care about.

It is not required to use a leg on the splitter. There is another one out there that only has one jack, that one has to hand on the leg of the splitter.

 

[imagoon]

You used to be able to get the web shipment but they closed that loophole this spring. If you get the boxes from someplace like Amazon or solidsignal.com you can still avoid the install, but if you go through DirecTV.com it will automatically flag that you need a larger splitter and won't let you have the IRD drop shipped anymore. If you aren't using any special offers then it won't make any difference since the IRD costs are the same, but if you are trying to use a free upgrade then you're kind of hosed.

I'm not sure what you guys are referring to about a pass-through power injector. All SWM installs have to have the add'l Power inserter like you linked. That's because the IRDs can't output more than 18v to the LNB on the dish and the SWM LNB requires 21v. He's already got one somewhere in the house and it has to be hooked into the pass through port of the splitter/switch (indicated by the red line). You can also place it before the SWM splitter or SWM 8 on the downfeed from the dish, but it will still need to be near a working AC power outlet.

At that point you might as well as get them from Amazon. Cheaper and in most cases you can "add the splitter on" for $3-$7 and they just toss it in the box.

I tend to do that when I want to upgrade because in most cases I can get the DVR + radio remote (or the backlit radio remote at times) for $50 cheaper with shipping than getting it from DirecTv.

I also have just picked up boxes from a local walk in distributor and not needed an install.

I hope they don't plan to require an installer for everything because I am not going to take days off of work to swap a receiver. DirecTV just isnt that important to me.

Then again, when I went from the old multivolt system to SWM, I installed the dish and all the hardware myself and just called them to activate.

 

[smitbret]

Passthrough goes Dish <-> power <-> splitter <-> whatever device you care about.

It is not required to use a leg on the splitter. There is another one out there that only has one jack, that one has to hand on the leg of the splitter.

Right, you can put the PI in front of the splitter/switch. It's just more convenient for most people to put it after where it is often more accessible for troubleshooting. It's the same device either way, though. You wouldn't need passthrough anything at that point, though.

 

[TWG1572]

Since a picture's worth 1000 words, here's a rough sketch of the setup as I remember it. It works fine - for the one TV. Multiple TV's - not so much. I know how to get multiple tv's working now at least. Appreciate the help and links.

 

[smitbret]

At that point you might as well as get them from Amazon. Cheaper and in most cases you can "add the splitter on" for $3-$7 and they just toss it in the box.

I tend to do that when I want to upgrade because in most cases I can get the DVR + radio remote (or the backlit radio remote at times) for $50 cheaper with shipping than getting it from DirecTv.

I also have just picked up boxes from a local walk in distributor and not needed an install.

I hope they don't plan to require an installer for everything because I am not going to take days off of work to swap a receiver. DirecTV just isnt that important to me.

Then again, when I went from the old multivolt system to SWM, I installed the dish and all the hardware myself and just called them to activate.

DirecTV is just trying to automate the system to work for the lowest common denominator. Everything is stored in the system now, so when you order equipment from them, the system knows if you need a tech to come out and make changes. Receiver swaps are just done by drop ship unless there is an upgrade that requires changes.

For instance, if you have 3 HDDVRs and decide you want to upgrade one of them to a Genie. Each DVR has 2 tuners so you'd have a SWM 8 installed in the home already (6 tuners). If you trade one in for a Genie you will have changed from 6 tuners to 9 tuners (6-2+5), too many for the SWM 8 and you would need a SWM 16 installed. The system will automatically flag the tech to come out and install the Genie and the SWM 16 and will not drop ship it.

I would be different if you had 2 HDDVRs and wanted to replace/upgrade one to a Genie. You'd still have a SWM 8 because you were using 4 tuners, but adding the Genie just ups the total to 7 tuners (4-2+5). In that case DirecTV will just drop ship the Genie and ask you to send back the HDDVR it is replacing.

80% of DirecTV's customers are completely unwilling and unable to order a SWM 8 and install it themselves. 20% of us could do it all on our own, but preventing headaches with that 80% is far more cost effective than catering to the 20% that are technically skilled.

 

[smitbret]

Since a picture's worth 1000 words, here's a rough sketch of the setup as I remember it. It works fine - for the one TV. Multiple TV's - not so much. I know how to get multiple tv's working now at least. Appreciate the help and links.

Yep, that's exactly what I thought. They have the <Out to IRD> coax port on the Power Inserter capped. If you add a 2nd Client or other IRD you could just uncap and run a coax from the <Out to IRD> port of the Power Inserter to the 2nd box.

If add any more, then you'll need to go to a SWM 8.

 

[imagoon]

DirecTV is just trying to automate the system to work for the lowest common denominator. Everything is stored in the system now, so when you order equipment from them, the system knows if you need a tech to come out and make changes. Receiver swaps are just done by drop ship unless there is an upgrade that requires changes.

For instance, if you have 3 HDDVRs and decide you want to upgrade one of them to a Genie. Each DVR has 2 tuners so you'd have a SWM 8 installed in the home already (6 tuners). If you trade one in for a Genie you will have changed from 6 tuners to 9 tuners (6-2=5), too many for the SWM 8 and you would need a SWM 16 installed. The system will automatically flag the tech to come out and install the Genie and the SWM 16 and will not drop ship it.

I would be different if you had 2 HDDVRs and wanted to replace/upgrade one to a Genie. You'd still have a SWM 8 because you were using 4 tuners, but adding the Genie just ups the total to 7 tuners (4-2+5). In that case DirecTV will just drop ship the Genie and ask you to send back the HDDVR it is replacing.

80% of DirecTV's customers are completely unwilling and unable to order a SWM 8 and install it themselves. 20% of us could do it all on our own, but preventing headaches with that 80% is far more cost effective than catering to the 20% that are technically skilled.

Makes sense, I just would be really annoyed if they required it. Hell they could drop ship me the SWM16 and I would be happy but I know they won't do that in most cases.