Dipstick variations: How Do you measure your oil level?

[BonzaiDuck]

For years, I'd been checking the oil level for my 95 Trooper (which you tire of hearing about), and most likely did it with a warm or hot engine.

If you check my other recent thread on the tiring subject, you'll see that I "resolved" my lifter-ticking problem by adding oil over the full mark to the crankcase. I stopped fretting about "how much" after seeing certain authorities tell their audience that engines were made to accommodate as much as a full quart over the full mark, at least for vehicles with a 5 qt. capacity. But when I checked my oil recently with the engine hot, the level was 3 /8" + over the full mark.

Today, before I went down to the park for my daily exercise and walk, I checked the oil level with the engine cold in an ambient of 59F degrees. The level was barely a sliver above full -- perhaps just short of 1 / 8"!!

It dawns on me that we change our oil and fill the crankcase with cold oil -- possibly in a cold engine, but if volatile additives evaporate, we'll top up the oil when it is hot. After that, we may only top up the oil with the engine hot, and we try and stop at the full mark.

I was planning to make the seasonal change between 10W-40 and 10W-30 today, but I've only put 2,400 miles on the odometer since the last oil change (with 10W-40). This is So-Cal. 10W-40 is not going to hurt that old V-6 engine in this weather, even if 59F. So maybe later.

All I can say is the engine is reliably quiet as a mouse or a pussy-cat now. Certainly no "froth" or "crema" on the dipstick from cavitation. No overheating. No smoke. No leaks. Especially, no noise at all. Just a smooth-running engine without lifter-tick.

 

[Muadib]

I haven't check my oil since the 80's!! I had a Honda CRX Si then.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

The owners manual of most cars states the proper procedure for the vehicle in question.

Most vehicles I've had said to check 3 minutes after shutoff from operation.

My latest vehicle says nothing, so I've checked it cold and 3 minutes after shutoff, but there didn't seem to be a difference, which is probably why they don't give any specific instructions for it.

If you think checking it cold gives you a lower level, I don't think that's the case, at least thinking logically through the reasoning behind it.

1) The crankcase expands with heat, which would lower the level. A cold engine will be contracted, causing a higher level.

2) oil is flung all over the engine during operation. A cold engine has had time for all the oil to drain back into the oil pan. A warm engine leaves an oil film everywhere, lowering the level. The reasoning behind the 3 minute wait is so a controlled amount of film is left (or a controlled amount of oil has drained back into the pan).

I think you parking on a surface that was not level is a more likely culprit. Even a slight level change in the correct axis can dramatically alter oil level readings, and depending on the topography it can be difficult to notice in some places that the ground isn't flat.

 

[pcgeek11]

You should always run the engine for a bit before changing the oil.
1.) This ensures most particles and soot etc are suspended in the oil.
2.) This also allows the oil to flow more freely out the drain and carry all the nasty bits out.

 

[mindless1]

Oil should be checked after the engine has been shut off for a few minutes. Beyond that, hot or cold, it shouldn't make a difference enough to matter as the fill mark on the dipstick is just the ideal while a "little" more or less than that is fine.

However when you check the oil fill level hot, are you pulling the dipstick, wiping it off, putting it back in, and then taking it out to get the reading? That needs to be done on a hot, or even not so hot but recently running engine, where running has been circulating the oil around.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Many thanks to all. my repair-shop owner tries to dispel my concerns. He advises against replacing the hydraulic lifters.

I'm still wondering if the oil pump may not be working as it did 100,000 miles prior. But today, I'm going to change out the 10W-40 for 10W-30, which should offer some modicum of increased oil pressure.

I think it would be one thing to check the oil when warm -- as advised here by posters. But you would fill the crankcase with cold oil, so I can guess you would warm up the engine before topping it up.

I'm getting the factory EPA spec gas-mileage on this beast. There had been sporadic instances in prior years, before the Marvel Mystery Oil treatment, when I might notice the engine missing a bit when it first started up cold, but that's long gone. So now I'm planning a second trip up the US 395 for Turkey Day since the one I made early this month.

But overfilling the crankcase with 16 oz will not hurt anything. I'm looking at newer vehicles, while giving this one TLC for several years has increased my fondness for it.

People are advising me to avoid getting a hybrid or EV -- which I chose as an objective. I'm 77. As long as gasoline is affordable, I could get a low-mileage ICE vehicle that will double the Trooper's gas-mileage. That is -- something like a 4 year old RAV4. The newer vehicle has to give me some significant part of the features I've had with the old Trooper.

The longer I wait, the better. Some tell me that a hybrid or EV would actually increase my HOME insurance, for some risk of the Lithium battery catching fire.

I can't be sure what I will do, but right now I'm merely going to change my 40-weight oil for lower viscosity.

 

[BoomerD]

The manual for my 2019 F150 3.5 TT Ecoboost says:

Make sure the parking brake is on.

Make sure the transmission is in park (P) or neutral (N).

2. Run the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature.

3. Make sure that your vehicle is on level ground.

4. Switch the engine off and wait 15 minutes for the oil to drain into the oil pan. Checking the engine oil level too soon after you switch the engine off may result in an inaccurate reading.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

AMAZING RESULT!

10W-30 -- ONLY 5 QUARTS EXACTLY! QUIET AS A CHURCH-MOUSE!

 

[BoomerD]

AMAZING RESULT!

10W-30 -- ONLY 5 QUARTS EXACTLY! QUIET AS A CHURCH-MOUSE!

My F150 uses 5W30. It's only ever had the recommended Motorcraft 5W30 semi-synthetic in it...same with the previous 2018 F150 with the TT 3.5 ecoboost.

I don't remember where you live, but 10W30 Should be fine for temps between 0F and 100F...maybe a bit hotter.

I don't know if you have this or not...

1995 Isuzu Trooper Factory Service Manual.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[lxskllr]

My f150 calls for 5w20. I've gotta say I'm dubious. I'm not convinced that's really the best, and not just done to boost epa range by a smidge, or for some other reason that has nothing to do with engine longevity.

 

[mindless1]

You should sell the trooper just to get several hours of each week of your life back.

Kidding aside, it's not worth this much premeditation. 10W-40 vs 10W-30 isn't going to make a lot of diff at this point in So-Cal, plus oil is better than it used to be. You should be fine running 5W-30 synthetic year-round for your short trips.

 

[BoomerD]

My f150 calls for 5w20. I've gotta say I'm dubious. I'm not convinced that's really the best, and not just done to boost epa range by a smidge, or for some other reason that has nothing to do with engine longevity.

Non-turbocharged engine? 5W20 is normal for those. While it MIGHT be to boost CAFE/EPA standards...it MIGHT also be due to the size of the various oil passages in the engine.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

My F150 uses 5W30. It's only ever had the recommended Motorcraft 5W30 semi-synthetic in it...same with the previous 2018 F150 with the TT 3.5 ecoboost.

I don't remember where you live, but 10W30 Should be fine for temps between 0F and 100F...maybe a bit hotter.

I don't know if you have this or not...

1995 Isuzu Trooper Factory Service Manual.pdf

drive.google.com

Also responding to Ixskllr and mindless1 . . . . I can only conclude through this that I get enough oil pressure to stifle lifter-tick with the lower-viscosity 10W- or 5W-30. As some may have suggested, the 30-weight oil may serve well even during So-Cal summers. Some mechanics -- including my now-retired cousin -- think the Trooper and its engine are old enough to start using 40-weight oil on a regular year-round basis, but I think there's been a miscalculation. If temperature ambients soared to 110F+, maybe one might use the higher viscosity, but changing out the oil would probably only make sense if the vehicle were put through demanding usage at those ambients.

I had usually left the oil specification and changes to my first independent mechanic with this Trooper, whose services I used between 2005 and 2017 (amazing -- 12 years) -- Richard "Dick" G_____. But of course I'd consulted the Owner's Manual AND the Isuzu Trooper Factory Shop Manual ( and many thanks BoomerD for your considerate referral and link). These references recommended 10W-30 (5W-30 would serve equally) for most operating conditions, but 10W-40 for ambients higher than 100F or some temperature a little above that.

I'd remarked about the lifter-tick to my cousin when attending my aunt's wake in 2009. I think in those times, and when the drain-plug/bolt and drain-hole threads were leaking oil, the crankcase was underfilled for the slow leaks -- possibly as much as a half-quart. I DID always keep an eye on it, but I never associated engine noise in my own thinking with a slightly underfilled crankcase.

Also, I fully appreciate what mindless1 is saying, because it is indeed a bit funny. Throughout my car-owning history, with a frustration that I didn't have enough ducats to purchase this or that vehicle that I really wanted, I was rebelling against an aspect of our car culture, and drifting toward what I call the "mechanic's strategy" for less-expensive vehicle ownership. The Trooper was my big "stand your ground" project -- I never gave up on that bad boy. There is no doubt that it has paid off. But "less-expensive" strategy never accounted for the consumption of my personal energy and time.

I've also spent more time just doing web-searches and delving into the factory shop manual, in addition to any hands-on wrenching. And I HAVE done enough of that, too. It all fits into a sort of microeconomic analysis showing a trade-off between new-car payments and maintenance on the one hand, and old car maintenance or restoration with those costs on the other plus the personal hands-on effort. Being retired, I've had time to kill, certainly. But just occupying my mind substantially with vehicle frets is a drawback -- comedic as it may be. Also, there HAVE been substantial savings throughout on insurance -- shouldering the risk that I could personally be at fault for totaling my own car. Certainly a "calculated" risk.

I have an option to buy a Mercedes-Benz 2007 from my dentist and personal friend. But a luxury sedan is not quite what I want over a longer term. He wants $10,000, and he's explained what's been done to the 71,000-mile vehicle, so I have no doubt that I wouldn't have to purchase the expensive parts and labor for it possibly as long as I live in the future. But I'm spoiled by my SUV experience. I'll forego the 28 mpg with the Benz and hold to the 18.5 mpg of the Trooper for the indefinite future. This also means that I'll pick up the tab when I have lunch with Paul tomorrow, even if it's "his turn". I even want to see the Benz -- out of curiosity. He himself is conflicted about giving it up.

I'm still looking at newer vehicles -- mostly Toyota ICE, Hibrid and PHEV alternatives. If I buy one, I'll still keep the Trooper. For now, my motivation can only be the price of gasoline and vehicle mpg -- together (of course) with my low annual miles-driven.