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[DigitalFoundry] Hitman PC Beta GTX 970 vs R9 390 Frame-Rate Test

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Feb 19, 2009
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Right they are doing it because they have only have 20% DGPU market. If they had even had 40% of DGPU market then they would have more extreme with Hitman 2016.
You sound like JHH. He was paranoid ATI would bribe devs to gimp NV GPU performance.

He said similar things a long time ago, back when ATI had much higher marketshare.

Read some history, it will enlighten you:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38053246&postcount=804

You can't hide from history.
 

Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
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Right they are doing it because they have only have 20% DGPU market. If they had even had 40% of DGPU market then they would have more extreme with Hitman 2016.
If they had only 20% of the market the numbers below wouldnt make sense :

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38058488&postcount=17

One gain as much as the other lose, if Nvidia had 80% of the market then they would had lost 5% of the market last quarter and AMD sales should had increased by 25% at least, wich is not the case because they hold much more than those 20% that exist only in some Nvidia PR slides.
 

Azix

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2014
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If they had only 20% of the market the numbers below wouldnt make sense :

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38058488&postcount=17

One gain as much as the other lose, if Nvidia had 80% of the market then they would had lost 5% of the market last quarter and AMD sales should had increased by 25% at least, wich is not the case because they hold much more than those 20% that exist only in some Nvidia PR slides.
I had stopped responding to people who claim AMD has only 20%. They just ignore all the millions of GPUs sold before 2015.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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Using Steam installed base and excluding Intel and "others".

Nvidia sits on 67.66% and AMD on 32.34%. Its changing around 4% towards Nvidia per year with its current rate. Intels share is stable if you include that.
 

boozzer

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2012
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so the 80% nv share is just bs that has been passing around on this forum as fact?
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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so the 80% nv share is just bs that has been passing around on this forum as fact?
Nope, new sales have been 80/20. If it wasn't so, AMDs installed base wouldn't decline so rapidly and Nvidias not increases so fast.

300 series is so low its not even registered on Steam yet. And the highest scoring AMD product is the HD 7900 series.
 
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Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Nope, new sales have been 80/20. If it wasn't so, AMDs installed base wouldn't decline so rapidly and Nvidias not increases so fast.

300 series is so low its not even registered on Steam yet.
It doesn't really matter how one slices the pie as in the end AMD rules the gaming market.

At any point in time it's safe to say that more people are gaming on AMD hardware....Counting consoles of course. :)
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
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It doesn't really matter how one slices the pie as in the end AMD rules the gaming market.

At any point in time it's safe to say that more people are gaming on AMD hardware....Counting consoles of course. :)
And here is a perfect example. "AMD rules the gaming market!"
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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It doesn't really matter how one slices the pie as in the end AMD rules the gaming market.

At any point in time it's safe to say that more people are gaming on AMD hardware....Counting consoles of course. :)
You couldn't be more wrong. Counting tablets and smartphones of course. Not to mention the PS3.
 

Azix

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2014
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Nope, new sales have been 80/20. If it wasn't so, AMDs installed base wouldn't decline so rapidly and Nvidias not increases so fast.

300 series is so low its not even registered on Steam yet. And the highest scoring AMD product is the HD 7900 series.
new sales aren't market share. Developers care about market share. For AAA gaming etc, GCN pretty much is it.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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new sales aren't market share. Developers care about market share. For AAA gaming etc, GCN pretty much is it.
That share is quite small then.

The downhill trend is also quite obvious. When the HD7900 alone have sold around the same as the entire 200 series. Including R9 and R7. Not to mention the obvious missing 300 series that haven't even reached ~0.16% of the installed base to show.

And you are right, developers do care about market share. And the top product is GTX970 with ~6 million users on steam alone. Followed by GTX960 and GTX750TI with ~4 million each. That's the top 3 discrete cards.
 
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Leadbox

Senior member
Oct 25, 2010
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And you are right, developers do care about market share.
Luckily, their idea of caring is not ensuring that nvidia gets to win every benchmark just because of market share eh? They're afterall in the business of selling games and not graphics hardwares.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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Luckily, their idea of caring is not ensuring that nvidia gets to win every benchmark just because of market share eh? They're afterall in the business of selling games and not graphics hardwares.
And that's why you target the market share.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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And you are right, developers do care about market share. And the top product is GTX970 with ~6 million users on steam alone. Followed by GTX960 and GTX750TI with ~4 million each. That's the top 3 discrete cards.
GTX 970 will start to loose ground once pascal will launch sometime this year.

GCN based Consoles will still grow after Pascal will launch this year.

GCN Based Consoles today are more than 50 millions, that is more that the combine GM206, GM204 and GM200 GPUs on the market today.

If you include dGPUs and APU GCN Based on the market today, GCN is more than triple the market size of those three Maxwell chips.

So if you are a developer that cares about market share, you will develop for GCN not Maxwell that is closing its end of life soon.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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The only console benefit you may get is from Xbox One since its the only one with a somewhat straight port. But history have shown its not going to do anything. And we all know how the FX dreams went with the consoles. But you seem eager to repeat past mistakes. And since it didn't happen with DX11 for GCN, its now the DX12 hopes.

Its 2 years and 3 months since the console releases. And it changed nada.
 
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crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
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^Interesting. I actually sometimes see some defend Kepler's failings and even Maxwell losing ground to GCN on consoles. I guess this post is a more extreme denialist view that GCN has not gained any ground on Nvidia cards in the past year or so.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
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^Interesting. I actually sometimes see some defend Kepler's failings and even Maxwell losing ground to GCN on consoles. I guess this post is a more extreme denialist view that GCN has not gained any ground on Nvidia cards in the past year or so.
Objectively, GCN support and performance has increased vis-à-vis its Kepler and even Maxwell counterparts. The prime example of this overall trend is the Radeon R9 290, which launched in late 2013 and retrospectively has been a far better purchase than a GTX 780. Looking at 2016 benchmark results from games such as The Division and Hitman (to name a few), a R9 290 was a better purchase than the newer GTX 970. The R9 390 is better still.

Looking forward to VR... using the SteamVR benchmarking tool, we can see this trend reflected in results posted in this forum:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2464814&page=2
 
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Azix

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2014
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That share is quite small then.

The downhill trend is also quite obvious. When the HD7900 alone have sold around the same as the entire 200 series. Including R9 and R7. Not to mention the obvious missing 300 series that haven't even reached ~0.16% of the installed base to show.

And you are right, developers do care about market share. And the top product is GTX970 with ~6 million users on steam alone. Followed by GTX960 and GTX750TI with ~4 million each. That's the top 3 discrete cards.
where are you getting these numbers from?
 

Azix

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2014
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Steam users and percentage of cards.

Its a quite excellent place for hardware statistics due to the enormous amount of users.
those surveys are opt-in. among other issues with projecting it like that.

but it does not matter. Games aren't typically built for PC first.
 

boozzer

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2012
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those surveys are opt-in. among other issues with projecting it like that.

but it does not matter. Games aren't typically built for PC first.
it works bro. it is what I use as THE gauge. shintai is just following my foot steps :D
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
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No specific numbers = No argument ...
He just showed them:

That share is quite small then.

The downhill trend is also quite obvious. When the HD7900 alone have sold around the same as the entire 200 series. Including R9 and R7. Not to mention the obvious missing 300 series that haven't even reached ~0.16% of the installed base to show.

And you are right, developers do care about market share. And the top product is GTX970 with ~6 million users on steam alone. Followed by GTX960 and GTX750TI with ~4 million each. That's the top 3 discrete cards.

And yes, the survey is opt-in or whatever, but I don't think you can ignore steam hardware survey numbers at this point.

The GTX 970 is an extremely popular GPU, but I don't think it's intelligent to target Maxwell (or any specific architecture), because I find it extremely hard to believe that a majority of gamers are on Maxwell. We're spread out between all different GPUs, games should be GPU architecture neutral or try to.

Yes, I do expect newer games to use new features (like Async Compute), but we expect that. We dont' expect a GTX 780Ti/780 to drop performance relative to AMD counterparrts, ESPECIALLY in Nvidia games. That's silly as anything if I buy an NVidia GPU and the only way to reap the benefits is to always be on the fastest newest card.
 

Leyawiin

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2008
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I'd buy an AMD card in a heartbeat if they'd add adaptive vertical sync to their drivers (not Freesync - I like my current monitor). I've tried hoary old RadeonPro and it just causes tearing on the bottom one inch of my screen. NV's had it for like five years now.
 

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