digital video capture?

[joecool]

fellow at'ers,

i'm interested in trying to capture my home videos (shot on those small 8mm cassettes which so many camcorders use). i don't need to do a lot of fancy stuff (in fact i don't want to, i've got enough stuff to do already!), i just want to capture the movies from the camera and put them on cd so i can play them in my dvd player rather than having to use the camcorder for playback (unreliable since this will die some day).

anyone have any good recommendations for a relatively inexpensive but decent hardware/software combination to do this? i've ordered the msi ti4600 vtd card which supports these features, but i'd like to go for a solution that isn't dependant on my video card - when i upgrade the card i don't want to loose my dv capture capabilities!

one more item - my camcorder isn't digital so it doesn't have firewire out - just plain old composit video. and ideally i'd like to capture AT LEAST 640x480 resolution - preferably more, i think the camcorder captures at a higher resolution than that.

thanks in advance,

joe

 

[TimeKeeper]

Originally posted by: joecool
fellow at'ers,

i'm interested in trying to capture my home videos (shot on those small 8mm cassettes which so many camcorders use). i don't need to do a lot of fancy stuff (in fact i don't want to, i've got enough stuff to do already!), i just want to capture the movies from the camera and put them on cd so i can play them in my dvd player rather than having to use the camcorder for playback (unreliable since this will die some day).

anyone have any good recommendations for a relatively inexpensive but decent hardware/software combination to do this? i've ordered the msi ti4600 vtd card which supports these features, but i'd like to go for a solution that isn't dependant on my video card - when i upgrade the card i don't want to loose my dv capture capabilities!

one more item - my camcorder isn't digital so it doesn't have firewire out - just plain old composit video. and ideally i'd like to capture AT LEAST 640x480 resolution - preferably more, i think the camcorder captures at a higher resolution than that.

thanks in advance,

joe

hmm....I don't think 8mm camcorder able to do more than 320 line? Most comsumer-level MiniDV only capture at around 500 line EVEN w/ progressive scan. The new DV's digital processor might able to push it beyond 540X480, but then you are looking into professional-level that can do 800 line.

 

[joecool]

anybody else? anyone have any experience with dazzle?

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: joecool
anybody else? anyone have any experience with dazzle?

dazzle is fine except usually it is usb based on the cheaper models, preventing you from using higher quality...


as I have just written in another post, get the cheapest video input card you can find and hten use something such as WIndoes movie maker to record it in a raw or compressed format

 

[ripthesystem]

sounds like its time to do some reading- esp. if you're going to be using these in a home console DVD player.. means it'll have to be in DVD or VCD/SVCD format..

all the info you'll need (including a great forum) is at:

http://www.vcdhelp.com/

HTH!
ripthesystem

 

[oldfart]

Yes, go to VCDHelp and start reading. The capture resolution depends on what format you are going to use. VCD is 352x240, SVCD is 480x480. VCD is MPEG1, SVCD is MPEG2. You can play VCD and SVCD in many newer home DVD players. For analog capture, make sure you have PLENTY of hard drive space as well.

 

[joecool]

thanks for the tips, guys, i'll def. check out that web site. any thoughts on how mp2 capture compares to mp4? (re/disk space, i think i'll be ok - i've got 200GB in my box!)

... ripper, what's hth?

 

[virusag11]

If you want a cheap capture card grab a pinnicle studios DC10 capture card or an ATI TV wonder. They should fit your needs as 8mm isnt the highest quality source, and this cards can't capture at the highest quality. If you want a nicer capture card you can get an ATI AIW 8500/8500dv or DC30 capture card. I have a DC10, DC30 and ATI AIW 8500.

 

[tuongo]

How about the DLINK device? I can't remember the exact name/model, and it's mysteriously disappeared from their website (was there last month).

It's a standalone "box" that you can plug into your USB port. Pretty nifty, and cheap too. Independent of the vid card as far as I can tell, and only $50.

My understanding is that the Dazzle and other cards are basically a plain old video card + this device. And what you're really paying for is the software bundled with it.

Are there any experts here who can correct me? These are just my best guesses on the device.

 

[AluminumStudios]

The inexpensive video capture options are rather limited and always have been...

There are VGA cards that include capture (like the MSI card that you mentioned.) They however often tend to have washed out, unclear, captures unlike dedicated video capture and edited boards by companies like Pinnacle. The AVI CODECs that they use are also often proprietary and BIG since they are real-time software (CPU) based.

The Pinnacle DC10+ is a VERY good card for the money. It's captures are clear and clean and it's hardware MJPEG encoding gives you great (and adjustable) quality:size ratio. The DC10+ is aging however and may be discontinued soon. Pinnacle's support for it's low end hardware is pretty poor. The DC10+ only captures in Win2K/XP if you buy Pinnacle Studio 7 or higher editing software. You can capture from within Studio 7/8 then use your AVI's in other apps.

The Pinnacle DV500 is a GREAT card .. but it's $500 (street price.) It has analog and DV inputs and outputs. It captures at 720x480 (which is DVD resolution. The DC10+ only does 640x480 which means you'll have to use software to resize to 720x480 if you're going to produce an MPEG2 for DVD. This isn't a big deal (especially since the DVD MPEG2 will have a flag that specifies that it gets squeezed back down to 4:3 aspect ratio when it gets played.)

I don't like VCD - it's a relatively poor quality format (although cheaper and easier than DVD.)

Another option would be an analog<->dv converter box which would take your composite signal and convert it to DV which you could then run into a cheap $30 firewire card.

Those are the most reasonable options. Of them the Pinnacle DV500 is the best (and most expensive.) Followed up by the DV converter (which is probably about $300) but will yield pretty easy use and decent quality.

 

[oldfart]

thanks for the tips, guys, i'll def. check out that web site. any thoughts on how mp2 capture compares to mp4?

If you want to play it in a home DVD player, MPEG4 will not work. Its either MPEG1 (VCD) or MPEG2 (SVCD). Look at the VCDHelp site. The capture using the TI4600 will be fine. Use VirtualDub for the capture with the Huffy 2.1 codec set to best quality. Huffy gives better quality than MJPEG IMHO. Once you have the capture, you can use TMPGEnc to convert to MPEG1 or 2. I dont like VCD. The quality is pretty bad. To get a good looking video, TMPGEnc using 2 pass VBR best quality encoding will give excellent results, but will take some time to encode. The SVCD looks much better and is well worth it. As you can see, there is a lot to learn.

 

[joecool]

thanks, oldie, i spent part of the afternoon checking out vcdhelp. sounds like the apps you suggest are pretty popular (and free!). one question, it looks like my dvd player isn't going to be able to handle svcd, is vcd really that awful? of course i can just go test it (which is probably what i'll be doing tonight!), but from what i read on that sight it didn't sound like it was that awful - after all, aren't lots of recordings made as the vcd resolution level?

anyway, thanks again for the help. wish me luck!

-joe

 

[oldfart]

I had to buy a new DVD player. Mine didn't play VCD or SVCD. VCD was ..."ok".... I wasn't very happy with it. Try one and see what you think.

VCD = 1150 kbit/sec
MPEG-1 CBR only
352 x 240 pixels

SVCD = 2748 kbit/s max combined audio + video bitrate
MPEG-2 CBR or VBR
480 x 480 pixels

 

[McCarthy]

There are VGA cards that include capture (like the MSI card that you mentioned.) They however often tend to have washed out, unclear, captures unlike dedicated video capture and edited boards by companies like Pinnacle. The AVI CODECs that they use are also often proprietary and BIG since they are real-time software (CPU) based

Exactly! I have an Avermedia TV98 card and while it works fine it's never sharp. Things are readable and clear, but always "soft focus" which gets even worse after mpeging until I'm as well off just staying with VHS.

Unfortunately $500 is out of my pricerange, will have to look at this DC10+ more. AluminumStudios, how's the DC10+ compare to the input of a current ATI AIW card, ever had cause to compare them? My TV98 is better than the input on my VIVO GF2, but that's not saying much. Been thinking about picking up an AIW7500 for VCD and possible DVD capturing, but every review I find goes and does Quake benchmarks and then says "oh, yeah, and it records video too" Well duh, if someone's buying an AIW version they're buying it for those "oh, yeah" features so highlight them and leave the Quake benchies to the standard versions of the card.

ok, rant done.

Also, does the DC10+ -only- work with Pinnacle software? Can't capture within Premiere or good ol Virtualdub or the hardware MJPEG encoding only works with Pinnacle software and it becomes a standard input card with others?

--Mc

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: TimeKeeper

Originally posted by: joecool
fellow at'ers,

i'm interested in trying to capture my home videos (shot on those small 8mm cassettes which so many camcorders use). i don't need to do a lot of fancy stuff (in fact i don't want to, i've got enough stuff to do already!), i just want to capture the movies from the camera and put them on cd so i can play them in my dvd player rather than having to use the camcorder for playback (unreliable since this will die some day).

anyone have any good recommendations for a relatively inexpensive but decent hardware/software combination to do this? i've ordered the msi ti4600 vtd card which supports these features, but i'd like to go for a solution that isn't dependant on my video card - when i upgrade the card i don't want to loose my dv capture capabilities!

one more item - my camcorder isn't digital so it doesn't have firewire out - just plain old composit video. and ideally i'd like to capture AT LEAST 640x480 resolution - preferably more, i think the camcorder captures at a higher resolution than that.

thanks in advance,

joe

hmm....I don't think 8mm camcorder able to do more than 320 line? Most comsumer-level MiniDV only capture at around 500 line EVEN w/ progressive scan. The new DV's digital processor might able to push it beyond 540X480, but then you are looking into professional-level that can do 800 line.

I think he was refering to capturing full screen, not the lines of resolution. The res of DV, in terms of pixels, is 760*480 (the pixels are rectangular, not square, and "laid" vertically so you can get a higher pixel count but still retain the 4:3 aspect ratio).

My suggestion would be to buy an analog<->digital converter (I recommend the Dazzle DV Bridge and Canopus ADC). Both boxes will convert the video into DV (so yer not gonna lose quality), and the boxes won't become obsolete nearly as fast as a stand alone cap card. With how fast computers are getting most cap cards dump the load onto the PC and mainly act as an i/o anyway.


Lethal

 

[AluminumStudios]

Sorry I haven't responded, I've been busy getting video stuff ready for AWA (www.awa-con.com)

AluminumStudios, how's the DC10+ compare to the input of a current ATI AIW card,

The DC10+ is very vivid, clean, and clear on capture and output. It's definilty superior to the ATI All in Wonder 128 that I had and the Matrox Marvel G400 that I still have.

the only problem is that it only captures 640x480 and not the 720x480 that DVD is. But even after software resizing I believe it looks better than the other capture cards I've used.

the only thing I've used that I liked more was a DC1000+ at work, and the TV output of my Signma Designs Hollywood+ MPEG decoder (that thing is GREAT.)