Digital Out (SPDIF) try again...

[irishrjh]

I see there is another thread running on SPDIF... not really the direction I was trying to go, so I thought I would try a new one. Thanks for your patients with a non-engineer!

I want to upgrade sound cards from an onboard in my Compaq Preasrio which I use as a home theatre PC (MP3, TV card, Nero Digital recoded video, and PC Karaoke) connected to a high-end Kenwood 7.1 receiver and a projector. NO GAMING, NO SOUND RECORDING, and I use a DVD player connected to my receiver for DVD.

I have tried a couple different sound cards with digital (optical and co-ax) out to connect to my receiver (an older C-media and presently a Via ENVY 24HT-S). They both seem to sound good, but are unable to pass the mic-in, along with the music stream, out the digital out to the receiver and are thus not functional for my karaoke needs.

My desire to upgrade has spurred me to try and be a little more educated before buying another sound card and I have turned to the net and read lots of reviews, advice, forums, etc and am a bit more confused then ever. This X-Fi mania is not helping me any.

Creative says, "if you want the highest quality sound out of your X-Fi into your receiver then you would want to run the analog outputs from the card into the multi-channel analog input on your receiver. This way you are not recompressing the audio using a lossy codec like Dolby Digital Live"

So, I turn to you for some sound advice. Sorry for the long background...

1)Are the benefits of the "cystalizer, CMSS 3-D, etc" going to be realized on the digital connection as well... Maybe Not???

2) Does it matter if I use digital or analog in connecting to a high end receiver? Isn't digital better? I assume Creative is right about their sound cards, but is this true of others as well? Analog is better? I have both discrete analog connections and both digital connections available on the receiver (and Pro Logic IIx to expand a stereo signal to all speakers)

3) If I use digital, I am relying on the receiver's DAC, which I assume is better then the sound cards... BUT, are sound card DAC's competing with high end receiver Burr Brown DAC's these days?

4) Are all digital outs (if I can configure bit perfect digital out) the same? That is, will a cheap sound card with digital out produce the exact same result as the $400 Elite Pro X-Fi when connected to me receiver?


5)AND THE BIG QUESTION: I have looked, seriously, at X-Fi, EMU cards, M-Audio audiophile (USB and Firewire), HDA X-Mystique 7.1 with Dolby Digital Live, and the old Audigy and Audugy 2 cards. What is your advice?

6) On this HDA X-Mystiqye with DDL, isn't Pro-Logic IIx on my receiver a better alternative to DDL??



THANKS for your rockin' advice and time! I hope this helps others too...

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: irishrjh

6) On this HDA X-Mystiqye with DDL, isn't Pro-Logic IIx on my receiver a better alternative to DDL??



THANKS for your rockin' advice and time! I hope this helps others too...

Busy right now, so I can only answer one at this time. But others will be able to answer the rest in a short time.

The answer is no. The problem with computer audio is that with most cards a digital signal cannot send a signal to your receiver to be decoded into 5.1 or more unless it has been encoded before it is sent. This isn't a big deal for you because this is mainly an issue with gaming.

PLIIx just takes a stereo signal and tries to use a matrix decoding method to produce a simulated surround like effect. DDL provides ACTUAL 5.1.

But like I said, this is only for non-encoded sources, so all your DVD's will play in 5.1 when sent out the digital out. Games are not encoded, so therefore they need DDL to be able to be sent out to your receiver for decoding. Hope that makes sense....Got to go!

 

[irishrjh]

Awesome! Thanks for the answer! So, DDL is not really an added feature for me! Hopefully others can chime in one some of the other inquiries...

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: irishrjh
1)Are the benefits of the "cystalizer, CMSS 3-D, etc" going to be realized on the digital connection as well... Maybe Not???

I wouldn't care about any of these features because coloring the sound is not something that is looked highly upon in the audiophile world for the most part. CMSS 3d is a feature that is only available through analog and you might as well use PLIIx music or somethign similar depending on what you are doing. Summed up....no important.

Originally posted by: irishrjh2) Does it matter if I use digital or analog in connecting to a high end receiver? Isn't digital better? I assume Creative is right about their sound cards, but is this true of others as well? Analog is better? I have both discrete analog connections and both digital connections available on the receiver (and Pro Logic IIx to expand a stereo signal to all speakers)

Digital is perfectly fine unless you want to play games in surround sound or are interested in DVD-audio. The latter I experimented with and found it not worth the effort due to the lack of content. They should be virtually identical with the end result on most cards especially with encoded material.

Originally posted by: irishrjh3) If I use digital, I am relying on the receiver's DAC, which I assume is better then the sound cards... BUT, are sound card DAC's competing with high end receiver Burr Brown DAC's these days?

Use your receivers DAC's whenever possible IMO. Maybe the new X-fi might come close to matching your receiver, but, as I mentioned before, analog connections are annoying in my opinion. Running 6 cables to a receiver just makes a mess, and setting it up to sound good is equally annoying.

Originally posted by: irishrjh4) Are all digital outs (if I can configure bit perfect digital out) the same? That is, will a cheap sound card with digital out produce the exact same result as the $400 Elite Pro X-Fi when connected to me receiver?

some do not do bit perfect out I believe. But no, don't pay for a high end card if you are going to let your receiver do the decoding. They will sound the same.

Originally posted by: irishrjh5)AND THE BIG QUESTION: I have looked, seriously, at X-Fi, EMU cards, M-Audio audiophile (USB and Firewire), HDA X-Mystique 7.1 with Dolby Digital Live, and the old Audigy and Audugy 2 cards. What is your advice?

I would look into the M-audio cards, or being cheap, the Chaintech AV-710 will work fine. Just know your needs and find the cheapest card that suits them. Not being a gaming person, you do not need anything too fancy. I am not sure which support the mic feature you talked about earlier, but I am sure an e-mail to their support line will provide you with the necessary information.

 

[irishrjh]

Great Answers. Thanks!! I guess if I want to improve my sound- I need to look to better speakers next (I have small Kenwood 7.1) that just look too small to be very good... Thanks again!

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Looks like rleemhui coved things already

I've not used the mic-in for my old Chaintech at all or X-Mystique until just now. I tested to see if the X-Mystique could pass the mic info through digital out and it can. It actually has a whole Karaoke settings tab.

I messed around with it a little and it seems pretty neat. It even has some settings to change how your voice sounds (cartoon character, monster, etc)

Unfortunately my computer froze up when I selected the "male" effect for the karaoke settings. Their drivers are still coming along with the card. I just e-mailed their support department to ask about the issue. Last time I e-mailed them, they got back to me within one day.

If the Chaintech can't pass mic-in through digital and that's what you want to do, the X-Mystique might be a good card for you (especially if this is just a driver issue for the freezing).

For new speakers, there are a ton of great options as I'm sure you know. Check out AVSforum if you haven't already.

What's your budget for new speakers? Maybe we can give some suggestions to point you in the right direction.
AV123, where I got my speakers has a nice sale on ELT pairs right now. Their RSC100 center channel is also on sale.

 

[irishrjh]

Thanks. I will check out the speakers now...