Difficult suspension issue with Jeep - Please help!

[Mojoed]

I have a 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0l with 212k which runs and shifts as good as ever. I bought this Jeep for $900 knowing it needed some suspension/steering work. Shocks were completely shot, etc. There are two major issues:

First issue:
When I first bought it, the steering was very sloppy even when going straight. The Jeep would seem to "float" around the road. I would always drive with both hands on the wheel.

Second issue:
The Jeep has some kind of weird lateral movement happening, especially when I hit bumps. Even small bumps trigger it on straight roads. It felt very dangerous and I was not very comfortable driving it for this reason. It felt like the Jeep was swaying left and right.

Now I'm not a car guy, but I'm thinking both issues could be part of the same problem.

What we've tried so far:
Four new shocks, new power steering pump, new steering stabilizer, new sway bar links, new track bar, and holes in axle were repaired for mounting bar. Tires are good and inflated properly.

The Jeep STILL HAS THE ABOVE ISSUES even after all this work, although improved somewhat. I then went to TWO different shops and neither could find anything wrong the Jeep. The first shop complemented the quality of work which my mechanic performed, acknowledged the above issues and told me it's something I'll have to live with as it's "a trait of the vehicle." The second shop basically scratched their heads and told me they have no idea.

Now I don't expect this Jeep to handle like a car and I have driven many 4x4s and never experienced these problems. Something is definitely wrong! I do not believe this to be a "characteristic or trait" of the vehicle.

If anyone can point me in the right direction here it would be appreciated. Also, I live near Christiansburg, VA and if anyone knows of a good suspension shop in the area that would help too. I'm into this Jeep too far now to give up, especially since it runs so well.

UPDATE:
The Jeep has never been wrecked or lifted.

Based on the great advice obtained in this thread, the following work has been done:
New Pitman arm joints and bushings. Tired rebalanced and rotated. Tie rods and tie rod ends thoroughly checked out and did not require replacement. EVERYTHING else iamwiz82 and exdeath suggested was checked out. Everything was checked out and retightened, then an alignment was done.

The problem still persists.

Tires are nice Michelin LTX M/S 30/9.5/15 which are larger than the 225/75/R15's which the manual calls for. I sure am gonna feel stupid if this issue ends up being caused by the tires. I couldn't find loaner tires, and I just didn't want to buy new smaller tires to test since my current tires are so new/nice.

 

[jaha2000]

Wandering on the road could be a number of things...
1. The most obvious? How are the tires, busted belts could remove some lateral support.. Aka... Bias ply tire like... Your appear to be good on that
Check out this link http://www.jeep4x4center.com/j.../grand-cherokee-zj.htm
I would check parts 4 and 4A. You have replaced that as well.
Then here http://www.jeep4x4center.com/j.../grand-cherokee-zj.htm
Part 22, 6, 1,
More than likely you are looking at parts 22 and 6. I replaced these on a 69 grand prix that had the symptoms you have and it made it drive like a new car.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Assuming the alignment was checked...

How many degrees of play do you have in the steering wheel? Also check the tie rod bearings and such for excessive play.

 

[MiataNC]

Check the ball joints and control arm bushings for play. (Suspend with a lift and pry at them with a large bar while the wheel hangs unsupported. Look for side to side and up and down movement.)

How big are the tires? Google the tires Make/Model, and see if others have complained about poor driving characteristics.

 

[iamwiz82]

For the sloppy steering, have you adjusted your power steering gear? What do you mean when you say that the "holes in axle were repaired for mounting bar"?

First test, with the vehicle off but the key in the On position, move your steering wheel. How much play is there?

If there is significant play, then do the following:

With the vehicle off but the key in the On position, lay under the front and have a friend move the steering wheel back and forth. Should be easy to spot the issue. If you don't see anything, check your steering shaft.



My first thought was the Pitman Arm Joint would be my guess. Check out this walkthrough: http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/...howthread.php?t=375649

Things you should look at:

Control arm bushings
Ball joints
Alignment
Tie Rod and Tie Rod Ends
Confirm everything is torqued to spec
Steering shaft and it's joint

The second problem sounds like bump steer to me. I'm willing to bet that the problems are related.

The good news is that your suspension is pretty much identical to Cherokees and TJs, so you can piggyback off of any advice you see elsewhere.

 

[exdeath]

Take it to a professional alignment shop. I don't mean a tire shop with an alignment machine but to a specialty alignment shop that does work on race cars and builds custom suspensions and stuff like that. Most places just check static alignment at the wheels and don't have a clue on the underlying geometry.

Was it ever involved in a wreck?

Is this a rack and pinion or older steering box?

-wheel to shaft connection
-rag joint in the steering shaft
-shaft to rack connection
-rack and pinion play (gear backlash)
-inner tie rod ends (inside rack under the end boots)
-outer tie rod ends
-rack bushings (hold the rack to body)
-pitman, idler arm, drag link; joints/bushings (non rack and pinion)
-ball joints (lower and upper if present)
-control arm bushings (lower and upper if present)
-strut rod (not the damper), trailing arm, etc bushings (depending on control arm setup)
-strut and strut mount (on strut systems)
-wheel bearing/spindle
-subframe to body mounts
-structural failure in any of the body points

 

[slag]

sounds like early onset Death Wobble

 

[JDub02]

The 97 Jeep ZJ (I had one) has a solid front axle with recirculating ball steering. You'll always have a bit of slop when changing steering directions (can wiggle the steering wheel while going straight). Just the nature of recirculating ball steering setups. You might want to replace your steering box. The worm gear is probably worn.


The mechanics have probably already done this, but I would check your control arms (upper and lower, front and rear) to make sure the bushings are good and everything is tight. I would also check your wheel bearings.

 

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: slag
sounds like early onset Death Wobble

Fortunately I never had that problem with my lifted Jeeps. I hear it can be nasty.

 

[Mojoed]

You guys rock. I just printed this thread and will bring it to my mechanic as soon as I can. I'll update as soon as I can!

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: JDub02

Originally posted by: slag
sounds like early onset Death Wobble

Fortunately I never had that problem with my lifted Jeeps. I hear it can be nasty.

You don't need to lift a jeep to get death wobble, older ones with worn parts can start to have it show up.

Good article on how to cure death wobble

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: JDub02

Originally posted by: slag
sounds like early onset Death Wobble

Fortunately I never had that problem with my lifted Jeeps. I hear it can be nasty.

You don't need to lift a jeep to get death wobble, older ones with worn parts can start to have it show up.

Good article on how to cure death wobble

To be fair, the OP doesn't have DW. He would KNOW if he did. It'll practically knock your fillings out.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: JDub02

Originally posted by: slag
sounds like early onset Death Wobble

Fortunately I never had that problem with my lifted Jeeps. I hear it can be nasty.

You don't need to lift a jeep to get death wobble, older ones with worn parts can start to have it show up.

Good article on how to cure death wobble

To be fair, the OP doesn't have DW. He would KNOW if he did. It'll practically knock your fillings out.

True, it sounds more like he's got a nasty case of bump steer. He hasn't said if the jeep has been lifted or if the suspension has been modified from stock. He'd probably do best by tracking down a 4x4 shop that has experience setting up jeep suspension, modified or unmodified. Very few mechanics see many vehicles with solid front axles and their suspension and steering is a little bid different than independent front suspension.

 

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: JDub02

Originally posted by: slag
sounds like early onset Death Wobble

Fortunately I never had that problem with my lifted Jeeps. I hear it can be nasty.

You don't need to lift a jeep to get death wobble, older ones with worn parts can start to have it show up.

Good article on how to cure death wobble

yah, but who leaves a jeep the stock height? jeeps start gettin' good at 4" of lift and 33's.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: JDub02

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: JDub02

Originally posted by: slag
sounds like early onset Death Wobble

Fortunately I never had that problem with my lifted Jeeps. I hear it can be nasty.

You don't need to lift a jeep to get death wobble, older ones with worn parts can start to have it show up.

Good article on how to cure death wobble

yah, but who leaves a jeep the stock height? jeeps start gettin' good at 4" of lift and 33's.

Depends, I've got a CJ-5 on a 3" lift and 32"s and that's pretty darn squirrelly on the highway. It's track and wheelbase are just too small for anything more than that without becoming completely unstable at high speeds.

 

[JDub02]

my cousin had a CJ-5 when we were teenagers .. he prided himself on being able to get it up on 2 wheels going around turns. i'm really surprised he never wrecked it.

 

[Mojoed]

UPDATE:

The Jeep has never been wrecked or lifted.

Based on the great advice obtained in this thread, the following work has been done:
New Pitman arm joints and bushings. Tired rebalanced and rotated. Tie rods and tie rod ends thoroughly checked out and did not require replacement. EVERYTHING else iamwiz82 and exdeath suggested was checked out. Everything was checked out and retightened, then an alignment was done.

The problem still persists.

Tires are nice Michelin LTX M/S 30/9.5/15 which are larger than the 225/75/R15's which the manual calls for. I sure am gonna feel stupid if this issue ends up being the tires. I couldn't find loaner tires, and I just didn't want to buy new smaller tires to test since my current tires are so new/nice.

 

[fleabag]

I see that you've replaced everything but the springs......why? Why not replace the springs? When those go bad, the truck/car may sway side to side, feel kind of loose on the road, especially when hitting bumps on the highway. I know this because on my Land Cruiser, when I used the alldata troubleshooting, it listed this as a probable cause. Also I asked my Autotech teacher back in highschool and he confirmed that would be the reason.

 

[Mojoed]

Originally posted by: fleabag
I see that you've replaced everything but the springs......why? Why not replace the springs? When those go bad, the truck/car may sway side to side, feel kind of loose on the road, especially when hitting bumps on the highway. I know this because on my Land Cruiser, when I used the alldata troubleshooting, it listed this as a probable cause. Also I asked my Autotech teacher back in highschool and he confirmed that would be the reason.

Hey thanks for the info fleabag. I guess it can't hurt to have the springs swapped! I'll update this thread after I have it done.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Mojoed

Originally posted by: fleabag
I see that you've replaced everything but the springs......why? Why not replace the springs? When those go bad, the truck/car may sway side to side, feel kind of loose on the road, especially when hitting bumps on the highway. I know this because on my Land Cruiser, when I used the alldata troubleshooting, it listed this as a probable cause. Also I asked my Autotech teacher back in highschool and he confirmed that would be the reason.

Hey thanks for the info fleabag. I guess it can't hurt to have the springs swapped! I'll update this thread after I have it done.

I'm not sure that will solve what you're describing but at this point anything is possible. It still sounds like bump steer to me but you've hit on most of the normal things.

You've never explained though what you meant about holes in the front axle being repaired. What was wrong?

Before you spend money on springs I highly recommend going over to jeepforums.com and explaining your problem in the grand cherokee section. They'll have tons of vehicle specific experience and someone may have dealt with this issue before.