Your first born and an eye?
If you knew how much Rollo plays with video cards you can bet he will have an SLI setup sometime in the near future...besides Ill buy an AGP version now with my FX-53 then when a decent 939 mobo that has dual PCI express slots comes out...all slam down the cash to buy one.. then fork out the extra for the SLI setup as well...after selling my AGP version of course.
they could have announced SLi when they paper launched the 6800, but then they'd not sell the same card to the same person three times. its not a problem for NV im sure, seeing as it will inflate their sales as well as your FPS.
Edit: not a flame, just saying shady to wait three months. ill most likely get SLi when i get an FX-55-57.
Regards,
Y.A.F.
:beer:
Edit: not a flame, just saying shady to wait three months. ill most likely get SLi when i get an FX-55-57.
Regards,
Y.A.F.
:beer:
cause you have to buy 3 cards this generation, a new m/b, most likely a new cpu (almost all games are cpu limited on this gen cards), and we'll have to see if additional cooling and an additional ps are required....
a year or two from now, assuming i already have a pci m/b and faster cpu, and my 6800 is feeling it's age, SLI might be an attractive option - if it's available.
at least initially it will only be offered to "system builders", rather than a "upgrade" option. then there's the issue of a new chipset supporting more than 24 PCIe lanes, then the quiestion of multiple PCIe mainboards..
SLI is certainly intriguing, but it's amusing how people are making this the "end all, be all" solution, when at this time there are definately more questions than answers at this point...
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"end all, be all"
I certainly don't see it as that, but *EDIT: multiple CPU/GPU designs would be accurate* does seem like the next logical step for high performance desktops if AMD, Intel, Alienware, and nV are any indication.
I certainly don't see it as that, but *EDIT: multiple CPU/GPU designs would be accurate* does seem like the next logical step for high performance desktops if AMD, Intel, Alienware, and nV are any indication.
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i understood
i do disagree however, as while dual cpus have been available for a long time, the additional cost/complexity has kept it from the being adopted by mainstream market, something many who are excited about the SLI announcement seem to overlook for some reason.
cost is the main reason i see SLI as a more attractive solution to professional gfx workstations rather than mainstream gaming machines.
Sort of. Even PCI-E uses multiple 'lanes' for the faster connections; they're just multiplexed transparently by the controller. It is, however, a point-to-point serial protocol, as opposed to a shared bus system like PCI.
Still, it's pretty impressive that a 1x PCI-E link (2 wires) has more bandwidth in each direction than the downstream of an AGP1x connection (32 data wires, plus a ton of control signals).
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Biz/pro use is definitely the first to benfit no doubt, and we already agreed about thatOriginally posted by: CaiNaM
i understood
i do disagree however, as while dual cpus have been available for a long time, the additional cost/complexity has kept it from the being adopted by mainstream market, something many who are excited about the SLI announcement seem to overlook for some reason.
cost is the main reason i see SLI as a more attractive solution to professional gfx workstations rather than mainstream gaming machines.
But I still do not believe there is historic precedent to use as evidence to support your conjecture, as the Industry has changed overtime and so has the diversity of the consumers who comprise the gaming community. More women and seniors are gettin' stoke and catching the bug that drives high performance desktop gaming systems and titles that take full advantage of them.I'm no IEEE guy so I can only ask if the manufacturing technologies are quickly approaching another speed bump in the road map of die shrinks and number of transistors, ect. due to present packaging technology and/or other reasons or not. I do observe AMD, Intel, ATI, and nV's roadmaps, read the projections/predictions/prognostications of industry analyst for hardware and gaming though. Multi CPU/GPU systems look to be a area of focus for many of the top tech companies in their respective fields right now. Why is that? If it is because it's targeted at the biz/pro market, I concede the point
However, this is still going to be embraced by the hardcore gaming community, one that is evidently a growth industry.Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Biz/pro use is definitely the first to benfit no doubt, and we already agreed about that
changed how? entry/mid level gfx and entry/mid level pc's are still decidedly the "volume" market, (interesting tho that these budget pc's have decent cpu power but they all come w/ crappy gfx cards).
i haven't seen any studies indicating consumers are willing to spend more $$$ on pc's than they used to. sales of top level cpu's don't seem to have risen, with consumers looking for more power settling for lower priced chips and gfx cards, trying to attain close to the performance of top level hardware by overclocking.
i just don't see people willing to spend MORE, but rather trying to get more for their money... while that athlon xp officially dies about a year from now, even tht xp and a64 sales are sill being eclipsed by 1.6 & 1.8 Ghz durons! people are still buying the 2500 bartons by the boatload
[/quote]I'm no IEEE guy so I can only ask if the manufacturing technologies are quickly approaching another speed bump in the road map of die shrinks and number of transistors, ect. due to present packaging technology and/or other reasons or not. I do observe AMD, Intel, ATI, and nV's roadmaps, read the projections/predictions/prognostications of industry analyst for hardware and gaming though. Multi CPU/GPU systems look to be a area of focus for many of the top tech companies in their respective fields right now. Why is that? If it is because it's targeted at the biz/pro market, I concede the point
this is something i haven't seen.. while your "speed bump" question has some logic to it, i really haven't seen any effort to move towards multiple cpu's, at least not in the immediate future. dual core seems to be the most immediate "high end" solution (2nd half of '05 for desktop). sticking dual cores to a single chip rather than 2 seperate cpus seems to me to back up my impression that simplicity and keeping costs down is reflects the attitude of the market.
as far as growth, i've seen lots of references to mobile gaming and sff (small form factor) as the "growth" segments of gaming pc's, neither of which either mult-processor or multi gfx cards would support in any way.
everything i've seen/read seems to indicate the industry is going for not only more powerful solutions, but more compact/simplified one as well - and cost effectiveness seems to be a top priority. i really haven't seen anything that would indicate otherwise.
heck, even with all us "hardcore gamers" populating these forums, just look at all the posts here asking when the 9800pro will drop in price
How about $170 shipped? The wild boy's GF3 arrived today, he says "Dad, I don't need it. Why are you always buying me new video cards?"
LOL four years old and he's figured out going from GF2MX>GF4MX>GF4>GF2>5800> GF2>GF3 in one year is strange...
Keysplayr
Elite Member
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CanaiM, if I'm going to do this, I'll do it right. Dual processors, to me, was a given though not necessary. And I dont have to buy 3 cards because I waited and didn't buy early on any 6800's.
And even if I did, I would sell it without much effort. After all, you said it yourself. It's a niche market right? Someone will buy my AGP because not everybody will go PCI-e or Dual PCI-e. Just a miniscule percentile. The selling of anyone's 6800AGP card is not even a consideration for this issue.
A year or two from now, you will just then be getting as fast as I have been for those 1 or 2 years.
Intels Tumwater chipset server board is available now. Pricey, but that will soon come down.
Give one example of any graphics product from any other company that can even come close to an NV SLI setup. I'd say its the "end all, be all" for this generation.
Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
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Originally posted by: CaiNaM
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Biz/pro use is definitely the first to benfit no doubt, and we already agreed about that
changed how? entry/mid level gfx and entry/mid level pc's are still decidedly the "volume" market, (interesting tho that these budget pc's have decent cpu power but they all come w/ crappy gfx cards).
i haven't seen any studies indicating consumers are willing to spend more $$$ on pc's than they used to. sales of top level cpu's don't seem to have risen, with consumers looking for more power settling for lower priced chips and gfx cards, trying to attain close to the performance of top level hardware by overclocking.
i just don't see people willing to spend MORE, but rather trying to get more for their money... while that athlon xp officially dies about a year from now, even tht xp and a64 sales are sill being eclipsed by 1.6 & 1.8 Ghz durons! people are still buying the 2500 bartons by the boatload
I'm no IEEE guy so I can only ask if the manufacturing technologies are quickly approaching another speed bump in the road map of die shrinks and number of transistors, ect. due to present packaging technology and/or other reasons or not. I do observe AMD, Intel, ATI, and nV's roadmaps, read the projections/predictions/prognostications of industry analyst for hardware and gaming though. Multi CPU/GPU systems look to be a area of focus for many of the top tech companies in their respective fields right now. Why is that? If it is because it's targeted at the biz/pro market, I concede the point
this is something i haven't seen.. while your "speed bump" question has some logic to it, i really haven't seen any effort to move towards multiple cpu's, at least not in the immediate future. dual core seems to be the most immediate "high end" solution (2nd half of '05 for desktop). sticking dual cores to a single chip rather than 2 seperate cpus seems to me to back up my impression that simplicity and keeping costs down is reflects the attitude of the market.
as far as growth, i've seen lots of references to mobile gaming and sff (small form factor) as the "growth" segments of gaming pc's, neither of which either mult-processor or multi gfx cards would support in any way.
everything i've seen/read seems to indicate the industry is going for not only more powerful solutions, but more compact/simplified one as well - and cost effectiveness seems to be a top priority. i really haven't seen anything that would indicate otherwise.
heck, even with all us "hardcore gamers" populating these forums, just look at all the posts here asking when the 9800pro will drop in price
[/quote]Its not that the industry is going in any particular direction. It is that our choices are being increased. SFF's hit the market, but you wont see full size ATX/BTX cases going the way of the dodo. At least not for the rest of this decade. We are not being herded into a single minded direction with only one road to travel. Many, many doors are open and we can walk through any one we choose or are able to.
while i certainly do not fault you for going this route, i sincerely doubt many will take the same route
i haven't either, so this wouldn't apply to you or me, however the previous post specified those that already purchased one.
i think it's certainly fair to say you could sell it (heck i just sold by nv35 not too long ago - i love ebay!), although what price the market will bear is still an unknown. my opinion based on how i perceive the market would incline me to think you would get a good price for it.
i'm not sure how many "mainstream" users would do this (certainly many of us here would, and do..) but i would speculate those that would actually go the SLI route would most likely be the same kind of person who would take the time to sell it on ebay, or on the fs/ft forums here...
depends on who you are talking about, but for the most part i agree with what you're saying...
but at what cost, and what is the necessity? bragging rights? you'll have invested (and you're making a big assumption here on the availability of dual cpu/dual PCIe boards) say $550 on 2 decent (say p3.2c or a64 3200+) $200 on a good dual cpu m/b (again, even assuming one is avail), $650 on 2 gfx cards ($400 for a GT at launch, say $250 for the same card a year later).. that's $1400, not considering any cooling or power supply upgrades which may be required. that's ALOT of money. i would certainly hope you'd be faster
the point tho is not whether this setup would be "faster", rather whether the benefits would outweight the cost, and how it would compare to options we have in the future. it would certainly be fast, but whether it's necessary is doubful, and the whole point behind it being a "niche" market.
i've already stated i'm likely going to wait on the PCIe flavor of 6800 and may even go the SLI route myself, but that would depend on what options are avaialable 18-24 months from now...
i did read the whole anand article, and found it to have the same doubts i've had:
And then there's the problem of finding motherboards with multiple PCIe slots. The only one that we've seen so far is a multiprocessor board, which hasn't been released yet. To be fair, NVIDIA is targeting the system builders first, and won't be pushing a consumer SLI upgrade package until later (possibly this fall). The success or failure of this product will likely not rest on its technical merits, but rather on the availability of suitable motherboards, and the cost of the upgrade. We can see some hardcore gamers out there spending $500 on a card. We could see some even going so far as to upgrade their entire PC if it meant better performance. But it is hard for us to see very many people justifying spending $1000 on two NV45 based cards even for 2x the performance of one very fast GPU; perhaps if NVIDIA cripples some of its GPUs to work only as slaves and sells them for a (very) reduced price as an upgrade option. Even then, this isn't going to have as easy a time in the marketplace as the original 3dfx SLI solutions.
as i stated earlier, it's not the technology that's prompting my statements, rather the banner waving fanboys
to what end? will it be fast? certainly. is it necessary? hmmm.. does the cost justify the benefits? hmmm.. doubt it. will it be widely adopted? i don't think so.... so no, it's not the "end all, be all"... at least not yet, as there are more questions than answers, and we have no clue what our options will be at this time.
sounds like some folks might be in for a letdown.... straight from the horse's mouth (crytek):
In current engine there are no visible difference between PS2.0 and PS3.0. PS3.0 is used automatically for per-pixel lighting depending on some conditions to improve speed of rendering.
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?ai...pe=expert&pid=2
6800 owners will not benefit from "better image IQ" compared to x800 users in Far Cry. sounds like there could be some performance benefits, however.
In current engine there are no visible difference between PS2.0 and PS3.0. PS3.0 is used automatically for per-pixel lighting depending on some conditions to improve speed of rendering.
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?ai...pe=expert&pid=2
6800 owners will not benefit from "better image IQ" compared to x800 users in Far Cry. sounds like there could be some performance benefits, however.
i "lmao" every time i read this comment. while true in a vastly oversimplistic sense...many are often mislead because they take it out of context, not realizing(or simply ignoring the fact that speed has a great impact on visual quality in the following 2 ways.
1. the ability to do more shaders means the ability to do more shader effects...more shader effects means better IQ because a givin scene can have more(or more complex) lighting effects through shaders thus the IQ is "better"...because of speed of shader performance.
2. a card that can "just run faster" can also run at a higher resolution...and we all know higher resolutions look better than lower resolutions. if you do not believe me fire up your favorite game at 640x480, then run it at 1600x1200 at same quality settings...it will be obvious which "looks better" even with the same LOD settings...
so snipping that quote(or a few quotes) and performing a gross act of oversimplification by taking it to mean "SM3 will not look any better than SM2" is nothing more than deluding yourself...anyone that has increased a resolution to make a game look better has the verifiable evidence right in front of them on their monitor.
Long live Matrox. Hear me, Hear me, Long Live Matrox, all people's of the world unite! Long Live Matrox
hmm.. somehow we are changing subjects here... i'm not faulting anyone for going that route, simply that it won't have the significant impact on the market many nv fans have claiming.
as for a setup for me, personally? at the moment i'm happy with my x800 in my main rig. it plays everything very well @ 4xaa/8xaf. my second rig has a 9800p, and my third a 9700p. I planned on buying a 6800GT to play with and compare, eventually keeping whichever i felt was better in my main rig and the other in my backup (i also have an XT on order lol).
what i will probably do is sell my PRO (haven't decided which) when the XT arrives, and hold off on the GT till I see what happens with PCIe... alot of it depends on what GT pricing does, the availability/quality of the shipping PCIe boards/chipsets this fall.
essentially it looks like this news has delayed my upgrade path (cpu/mainboard) till the fall. as far as what's best, i'm going to withhold my final judgement until we see shipping parts and i actually have an understanding of my options (i'm kinda bummed.. i really wanted that GT....). it's even possible i'll still get a GT - i just don't see myself buying 3 PCIe mainbaords this year.. but more than likely i'll wait and see - it's not like there's anything out or upcoming that won't run well on what i have now, i just kinda get the warm fuzzies when new gfx hardware comes out
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