Difference between x2 3800+ Manchester and Toledo?

[DL402]

They cost about the same.

 

[Fallengod]

No difference really. The toledo has more cache but its disabled anyways from what I understand. So they are identical.

 

[DL402]

According to RTPE

Manchester dropped $4 this week, at $295 including shipping.
Toledo dropped $68.92, at 299.73 with $8 shipping

 

[AkumaX]

well, what's the difference between a Tbred-B and a Thorton?

 

[Tweakin]

Manchester is the older chip with 512K and the Toledo is the new chip including the new memory controller with 1MB cache, half of that disabled.

 

[lopri]

Huh? I don't think Manchester is older than Toledo..? They came out just at the same time around. Toledo core has 1MB L2 Cache, Manhester 512KB. Probably due to yield/validation and supply-demand reason AMD disabled half the L2 Cache on Toledo chips and sold them with the same spec as Manchester. There shouldn't be any difference @ stock speed between the two (Manchester and Half-cahce disabled Toledo). There were some discussions on OC'ing potentials, but I haven't seen any definite trend yet.

But indeed it seems that AMD intends to discontinue the chips with 512KB L2 cache in the long run.

 

[Doctorweir]

According to AMDs old Roadmap, the X2 is "Toledo" and the Opteron "Denmark"...2 names, one thing I guess...
But I concur on Winnie vs. Toledo being the same...as far as I understand, the Toledo/Denmark (dual core) is also derived from the new revision, aka Venice/SanDiego-level (single core)...?
Including new mem-controller and die-shrink...the high overclockability compared to the old Winnies also hardens that...

EDIT: Ah, conclusion for OP: There is no X2 based on Manchester-equivalent cores. It is all Toledo...

 

[BernardP]

You will find the precise answer to this question in this Anandtech Article

Highlight:

"A New Core

AMD didn't sit on the X2 3800+ just because they were greedy and expected everyone to gobble up the $500+ parts. Instead, today's release is the result of a slightly revised core, codenamed Manchester, specifically designed to cut costs.

The original Athlon 64 X2 (Toledo core) processors all had the same exact specifications:

- 233.2M transistors
- 199 mm2 die size
- 110W max power

For the Athlon 64 X2 4800+ and the 4400+, the shared transistor count and die size made sense. They both were identical from a transistor standpoint, one chip just ran 200MHz faster than the other. But the 4200+ and the 4600+ weren't identical; unlike the 4800/4400+ X2s, the 4200+ and 4600+ only had a 512KB L2 cache per core, not a 1MB L2.

Update: As many of you have correctly pointed out, the 4200+ and 4600+ were available as both Toledo and Manchester cores. More than half of the Athlon 64 X2's transistor count is spent on cache, which means that if there are going to be any manufacturing defects on the chip, they will more than likely occur in the processor's cache. Born out of that fact, the Toledo based Athlon 64 X2 4600+ and 4200+ were nothing more than 4800/4400+ X2s with too many manufacturing defects; instead of throwing the bad cores away, AMD simply rebranded them and sold them at lower price points. The problem with this approach is that an Athlon 64 X2 4200+ took the same amount of space on a wafer as an Athlon 64 X2 4800+, despite only having half the cache. Thus we have the Manchester core: a core designed from the ground up to only feature a 512KB L2 cache per core.

As manufacturing ramps up, yields improve and it is now possible to actually create a cost-reduced Athlon 64 X2, using the smaller Manchester die - and that's where the Athlon 64 X2 3800+ gets its cost savings.

The transistor count of the 3800+ goes down to 154 million, and the die gets shrunk down to 147 mm2 compared to the 233.2M and 199 mm^2 of its bigger brothers (4800/4400+). The thermal envelope of the new core also dropped from 110W down to 89W, both still lower than Intel's Pentium D or single-core Pentium 4 for that matter."

CONCLUSION: The Manchester core seems preferable

 

[Tweakin]

Boy...I had that one all screwed up...except for the cache. So now I wonder if there is a way to determine from the part number which revision is toledo and which is Manchester?

 

[AkumaX]

Originally posted by: BernardP
You will find the precise answer to this question in this Anandtech Article

hah! i was just reading that

You could just search the 5 letter string on the CPU (mine says CCBWE, which is a Toledo w/ 1/2 the cache (I dub it Toledo512 since AMD never gave it a different name, like Thorton = Barton w/ 1/2 cache))