Difference between something like CallCentric and SIPDroid/GrooveIP?

[fuzzybabybunny]

At the end of the day I'm looking for a service that lets me place reliable calls on a 3G signal.

I want everything that the stock phone experience provides (caller ID, call logging, speakerphone, bluetooth headset, the other user sees me calling from my number or can reach me through my normal number). I just want to do it all via 3G reliably and clearly and bypass the traditional cell minutes.

My number's on Google Voice.

SIPDroid/GrooveIP uses VOIP so you can place free calls. But there are issues with calls not being clear on 3G.

Callcentric is also a VOIP service... but you can still end up being charged a per minute fee? Huh? And the same with Skype. Problem with Skype is that people see your Skype number, not your normal number.

And this whole thing with PBXes. From what I gather a PBX is a service that allows you to call one number and then it'll provide extensions so that the caller can reach other phones within the organization. So the business only needs to register one phone number but people can reach multiple departments by going through that one phone number by entering in the extension. So.... why is using PBXes even necessary when using SIPDroid and CIMSimple? I just want people to call one number to reach only... me.

Google Voice: You can have people call one number and have that number ring any number of phones that you set to ring. So it's essentially a glorified call forwarding service?

 

[Lifted]

At the end of the day I'm looking for a service that lets me place reliable calls on a 3G signal.

The problem is latency on 3G bounces around a lot which is bad for VOIP, thus call quality suffers. I don't think 4G is much better. I was making calls without issue from Asia though Callcentric in the US, and quality was fine, but over 3G in the US it leaves much to be desired.

 

[SunnyD]

SIPDroid/GrooveIP are apps.

Callcentric/Skype are services.

Skype is also an app that connects to the Skype Service.

You're asking for too much. #1 - there is no such thing as a free lunch. Once you get past this you'll realize that what you want right now in the mobile communications world is a prepaid cellular MVNO like PagePlus or StraightTalk depending on your usage needs and budget.

What you're asking to do with current cellular technology is something that is completely unintended. Hell, cellular is barely suited to do what it is intended to do, which is why the incumbents are able to bend you over for it.

Seriously, get it out of your head that VOIP over cellular is an option. If it was, the carriers themselves would have moved to it ages ago (because it's a far cheaper option for them!). Right now we, us consumers, are the pioneers. Once we get to a point where it looks attractive and capable of cutting costs/maximizing profits for the carriers, THEN will any meaningful advancement be made with it.

Till then... go back to making voice calls over a voice cellular signal, not a data one.

----

More:

Google Voice: GV is a "phone aggregation" service. It lets you have a single point contact number to hand out that lets you connect it to multiple services (multiple phones/cells/gtalk/voicemail/text/voip/contact lists) with some other useful additional features (voicemail, transcription, blacklists, call time blocking, call routing).

VOIP Service: It's the "gateway" between PSTN (traditional phone networks) and VOIP (internet telephony). It's a service. Services are generally not provided for free, especially since connecting to companies like AT&T, Verizon, etc. in order to terminate your call with their customers costs money. (Yep, AT&T, Verizon, etc. charge your phone company/provider $$$ every time you call one of their customers.)

IP PBX: More in depth than you yourself need, but think of what PBXes.org does as very similar to what Google Voice does, just more specifically generically for VOIP. It does a lot more/very different stuff too, but in your case that's all you need be concerned with.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

The problem is latency on 3G bounces around a lot which is bad for VOIP, thus call quality suffers. I don't think 4G is much better. I was making calls without issue from Asia though Callcentric in the US, and quality was fine, but over 3G in the US it leaves much to be desired.

Both SIPDroid and Callcentric make their calls over the WiFi/3G network, right? So what's the point of paying a monthly fee for Callcentric and then a per minute fee afterwards if you can just do it for free with SIPDroid or GrooveIP? What's the advantage?

 

[SunnyD]

Both SIPDroid and Callcentric make their calls over the WiFi/3G network, right? So what's the point of paying a monthly fee for Callcentric and then a per minute fee afterwards if you can just do it for free with SIPDroid or GrooveIP? What's the advantage?

Read my post above, pay particular attention to the "VOIP Service" section.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Read my post above, pay particular attention to the "VOIP Service" section.

I get that Callcentric is a service and SIPDroid is an app. That's not the point. The end result is the same. I place calls to anyone I want through either using VOIP over my smartphone. The difference is that one needs to charge me while the other doesn't (Right? I don't get any bills from SIPDroid/GoogleVoice/PBXes). Why? Why not just go for the free one? Is there a difference in voice quality? A difference in the ability to successfully place calls over 3G? Better codecs?

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

More:

Google Voice: GV is a "phone aggregation" service. It lets you have a single point contact number to hand out that lets you connect it to multiple services (multiple phones/cells/gtalk/voicemail/text/voip/contact lists) with some other useful additional features (voicemail, transcription, blacklists, call time blocking, call routing).

VOIP Service: It's the "gateway" between PSTN (traditional phone networks) and VOIP (internet telephony). It's a service. Services are generally not provided for free, especially since connecting to companies like AT&T, Verizon, etc. in order to terminate your call with their customers costs money. (Yep, AT&T, Verizon, etc. charge your phone company/provider $$$ every time you call one of their customers.)

IP PBX: More in depth than you yourself need, but think of what PBXes.org does as very similar to what Google Voice does, just more specifically generically for VOIP. It does a lot more/very different stuff too, but in your case that's all you need be concerned with.

So let me get this straight:

Mike is on T-Mobile
Sarah is on Sprint

T-Mobile charges Mike a monthly fee.
Sprint charges Sarah a monthly fee.

When Mike on T-Mobile calls Sarah on Sprint, Sprint charges T-Mobile. T-Mobile has to pay Sprint because it's calling one of Sprint's customers on Sprint's network.


Now, Ivan is placing a call with VOIP using his WiFi or cell data. VOIP app goes to a service like CallCentric which then switches the call to the conventional phone network. It's the gateway.

When Ivan on VOIP/CallCentric calls Mike on T-Mobile, T-Mobile charges CallCentric and CallCentric passes the cost onto Ivan.

But when *I* place calls to, say, T-Mobile, using SIPDroid/PBXes, I don't get charged anything. Supposedly T-Mobile is charging someone for calling one of their subscribers...

 

[SunnyD]

So let me get this straight:

Mike is on T-Mobile
Sarah is on Sprint

T-Mobile charges Mike a monthly fee.
Sprint charges Sarah a monthly fee.

When Mike on T-Mobile calls Sarah on Sprint, Sprint charges T-Mobile. T-Mobile has to pay Sprint because it's calling one of Sprint's customers on Sprint's network.


Now, Ivan is placing a call with VOIP using his WiFi or cell data. VOIP app goes to a service like CallCentric which then switches the call to the conventional phone network.

When Ivan on VOIP/CallCentric calls Mike on T-Mobile, T-Mobile charges CallCentric and CallCentric passes the cost onto Ivan.

But when *I* place calls to, say, T-Mobile, using SIPDroid/PBXes, I don't get charged anything. Supposedly T-Mobile is charging someone for calling one of their subscribers...

You are SPOT ON with this except for one minor detail that is buried that 99% of the people using GrooveIP or the SIPDroid/PBXes combo aren't aware of.

The entity that is footing the bill for the call termination is: Google.

What both GrooveIP and PBXes have done is they have hooked Google Voice's ability to route voice calls to Google Talk (The IM client) via SIP. This is the same thing that Google was previously doing with Gizmo5 when they then acquired them, then took them offline and then merged that functionality with GTalk.

GrooveIP and PBXes is taking that packet that's intended for GTalk and converting it (if that's even necessary) into a traditional SIP compatible packet and rerouting it to your device instead of GTalk. It's still being terminated between Google's SIP server and whomever you're calling's carrier. Therefore the one paying the termination fee is Google, and because Google Voice is free (for now), you have no bill (for now).

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

editing.

This shit needs to get stickied. I'll attempt to make a sticky.

 

[SunnyD]

Done editing. See post #8 for your answer.

Also:

So.... why is using PBXes even necessary when using SIPDroid and CIMSimple? I just want people to call one number to reach only... me.

It's not. Except in the case of how you're using it... as noted in post #8 - you're using a specific loophole with Google Voice which requires a way to exploit that loophole. The alternatives you have to exploit it right now are GrooveIP and PBXes.org. If you use a company like Callcentric or SIPGate directly, then you have no need for PBXes.org in the middle unless you want to do something fancy like have an IVR (one of the fancy voice prompt things) in the middle.

---

It's really funny you're asking all this right now, especially since I just started transitioning my home phone service to VOIP as of yesterday, and I'm using re-purposed smartphones as my handsets. So I've done a lot of research on this topic over the last couple weeks to make sure I have all my ducks in a row myself, especially since I too have contemplated using the same type of setup as you (cellular VOIP) several times over the last few years as well.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

One thing that needs clarification: why is there a fee for "call termination"? Usually when I pay a fee it's for a service. House painting. Shipping an item. I generally don't pay a fee for terminating something (paying a fee for *terminating* the house painting or for *stopping* shipment is a little weird).

Do you mean there's a fee for starting the call + the duration of the call, and then the fee is calculated and totaled and billed out at the termination of the call?

EDIT:

Bah, such a dumb term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_termination

I thought you were using cell termination in the general sense, synonymous with "ending a call."

It should be called "Call Routing" or "converting VOIP to traditional phone network service."

EDIT 2: "Call Origination" is an equally dumb, confusing term.

"call origination" is where a call originates from PSTN (traditional phone network) and goes to VoIP, while in "termination" a call originates in VoIP and terminates to the PSTN (traditional phone network).

The origination/termination is always in relation to the PSTN, a distinction that is not easily figured out from the terms itself. If the call originates from the PSTN (PSTN > VOIP) it's called call origination. If it terminates at the PSTN (VOIP>PSTN) it's called call termination.

 

[Twistee]

It's really funny you're asking all this right now, especially since I just started transitioning my home phone service to VOIP as of yesterday, and I'm using re-purposed smartphones as my handsets. So I've done a lot of research on this topic over the last couple weeks to make sure I have all my ducks in a row myself, especially since I too have contemplated using the same type of setup as you (cellular VOIP) several times over the last few years as well.

This is possibly off-topic but related to what you said. I've wanted to do exactly the same thing that you're doing - use a VOIP service and use repurposed smartphones as handsets. I can do that pretty easily. However, I do not know how to use more than 1 handset for the same number - along the lines of cordless phones with multiple handsets. If this is what you're doing, can you give me some idea of how to go about it?

Thanks
T

 

[pm]

I missed this thread the first time it went through. But, for what it's worth, we use Callcentric for our home VOIP service. I have a Linksys PAP2 VOIP adapter and our home phone is plugged into the PAP2 and then Callcentric routes our calls. We pay about $14/month, but we call overseas a lot to England, France, Germany and Poland. Callcentric also has apps for both iOS and Android that let you make and receive calls.

So over the years I've used Skype and Callcentric to make VOIP phone calls over 3G and I have found that you need a good 3G signal, and that it's worked better for me in other countries than in the US. In Ireland, England and Poland I could use either Callcentric or Skype to make phone calls on 3G and the connection and quality were surprisingly good. In the US, I find it's much more hit or miss and sometimes my calls are completely unintelligible and sometimes they sound ok. A lot like my cell phone calls only much less reliable.

As far as using two handsets for the same number, I've never tried this.