Difference between Canada and the US

nallur

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Nov 8, 2000
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This is from the Toronto Star:

Each day, more of home to miss

LUKE ERIC PETERSON

For five years, I've been in a long-distance relationship with my country.

From vantage points in the U.K., Switzerland, and most recently, the U.S., I've managed to continue working for Canadian employers; filled my down-time listening to CBC Radio on the Internet; and each April vacuumed out my bank account and sent the contents home to Revenue Canada.

But as an expatriate sitting down to pen a column about Canada Day, I soon found myself dwelling less on my home and native land, and more on our next-door neighbour.

It was Dalton Camp, in these pages, who once observed that "Whenever Canadians begin singing the praises of their country, they end up talking about America."

Some attribute our fixation with our southern neighbour to our own insecurity; and I'd be the first to concede that there may be something to this.

Nine months into a two-year tour of duty in the United States ? where my wife has come to study ? I see much in this nation that elicits unease, not least because America is so often held up as a model which Canada ought (or inevitably will) emulate.

The longer I spend in the United States, and despite a strong affinity for many of its people, the more convinced I become that Canada is, in so many respects, on the right track (one shared by many western nations), while in the U.S. democracy is largely derailed.

Until now, I'd yet to live in a nation where the prospect of being detained ? without charge or contact with the outside world ? was legally ordained not only by the government, but by the highest court in the land.

Nor had I ever lived in a nation where 41 million citizens live in a second-class existence without health insurance.

Or where numerous states teeter on bankruptcy and slash basic services to stay afloat ? while wealth continues to concentrate in ever fewer hands.

Having moved to within a five-hour drive of the border, I've never felt so far from home.

What is a visitor to make of a nation which holds itself to be the global standard-bearer of democracy, yet whose electorate is so ill-informed that one in four citizens believes that Iraq greeted invading U.S. forces with chemical and biological weapons attacks?

While the rest of the world bristles at the misrepresentation, or even fabrication, of intelligence data about such Weapons of Mass Destruction, millions of Americans work themselves into a lather about non-existent WMD assaults on American forces.

Thomas Jefferson, who spent more time than any American wrestling with the workings of democracy, warned, "The people of every country are the only safe guardians of their own rights." And Jefferson knew that experiments in self-government would only work where the people were prepared to act as well-informed watchdogs.

One can't help but wonder, then, what Jefferson would have made of surveys showing that half of Americans believe that Iraqis numbered amongst the Sept. 11 hijackers.

Far more sobering than the standard run of Elvis sightings and UFO abductions, such insights call into question the capacity of the American public to hold its government to account.

Little wonder that the Bush Administration can strip public assets as if it were a chop-shop proprietor dismantling a stolen car ? and in broad daylight.

Amidst all this fingering of the American worry beads, there may be an important lesson for Canada: An electorate can grow so aloof, so disengaged from the political process, that government can no longer be looked upon to bear fruit of any kind.

Debates like those which have recently taken place in Canada, as to whether governments should raise taxes slightly so as to invest in improved public services, would be greeted with stunned incredulity south of the border. To be sure, there is no unanimity in our own nation about the right balance for government to strike.

But I see widely shared understanding amongst Canadians that a government may ? within certain bounds ? promote the public good, through the provision of essential public services, and provide a safety net of last resort for the elderly, the ill, and the downtrodden.

Vast swathes of America appear to lack this elementary faith.

Government, according to the prevailing ethos in Washington and in the heartland, is to be progressively dismantled, and citizens left to their own devices.

I must confess to taking heart every time I open an American newspaper and read of Canadian accomplishments ? be they the provision of cheap prescription drugs to the elderly, softening of drug penalties, or the avoidance of record deficits.

But I also can't help but wonder how perplexing Canada must seem to the average American who has long since been disabused of any conviction that government can be trusted to work for the public good.

Luke Eric Peterson lives in Boston.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Likely to get flamed, but a good article and quite representative of my view on the subject. Most of the fellow Canadians I know would likely agree as well. Unfortunetly, those who need to see themselves as they are, won't.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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If Canadians are satisfied with Canada, it works for me. If not that is ok too. It is their country after all. Have a ball 'yall!
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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I like the article... I'm glad Canada is getting on with the program... gives us some place to point to for an example on a lot of issues..
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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Interesting he quotes Jeffereson and wonders what he would have done after 9/11. Jefferson sent the marines after the Barbary pirates while europe was content to pay them off to keep their shipping lanes open. Some things just dont change.

I worked in Canada for about 6 months. I am glad to be home, away from many of the things he misses about Canada.


 

DWray

Senior member
Oct 11, 1999
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It's easy to avoid large debts and provide things like socialized medicine when you don't have to worry about such trivialities as national defense.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
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www.ShawCAD.com
So let me see if I caught the jist of his ran...uhhh article.

"The US sucks - Canada rules"

Is that what his is trying to say using WWWAAAYYYY to many words?;):D

CkG
 

hagbard

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Nov 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: DWray
It's easy to avoid large debts and provide things like socialized medicine when you don't have to worry about such trivialities as national defense.

There's no point worrying about national defense. Our only threat is from your country, and not much can be done about that.

 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Q: Difference between Canada and the US

A: Americans wouldn't take the time to sit down and write a few thousand words on the subject of the U.S. being different than Canada, since it's a self-obvious statement. I don't know who the author's target audience is, since most of his countrymen likely agree with him and most Americans would give a flying f*ck what he thinks or anything much else besides what's relevant to them in their lives, like who's getting voted off the island on Survivor this week.
 

AEB

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Jun 12, 2003
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i dont blame canadians for they way they are, they are britts and frenchies combined so internal struggle is inevatable. and no matter what anyone says the US is the envy of the world(short of our moral pitfalls) some people handle that fact differently than others.
I love America its the best place to live.
And in regard to universal health care its a couple of things:
1.unrealistic-canadians spend lots of time waiting for important operations beacuse of it
2.communist- universal health care is socialist at best, i for one dont want to pay medical bills for some drug addict that got aids from a needle.
3. doesnt work- SARS in toronto
 

Phuz

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Jul 15, 2000
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Originally posted by: glenn1
Q: Difference between Canada and the US

A: Americans wouldn't take the time to sit down and write a few thousand words on the subject of the U.S. being different than Canada, since it's a self-obvious statement. I don't know who the author's target audience is, since most of his countrymen likely agree with him and most Americans would give a flying f*ck what he thinks or anything much else besides what's relevant to them in their lives, like who's getting voted off the island on Survivor this week.

Case and point.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: AEB
i dont blame canadians for they way they are, they are britts and frenchies combined so internal struggle is inevatable. and no matter what anyone says the US is the envy of the world(short of our moral pitfalls) some people handle that fact differently than others.
I love America its the best place to live.
And in regard to universal health care its a couple of things:
1.unrealistic-canadians spend lots of time waiting for important operations beacuse of it
2.communist- universal health care is socialist at best, i for one dont want to pay medical bills for some drug addict that got aids from a needle.
3. doesnt work- SARS in toronto

ok
 

Phuz

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2000
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Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: AEB
i dont blame canadians for they way they are, they are britts and frenchies combined so internal struggle is inevatable. and no matter what anyone says the US is the envy of the world(short of our moral pitfalls) some people handle that fact differently than others.
I love America its the best place to live.
And in regard to universal health care its a couple of things:
1.unrealistic-canadians spend lots of time waiting for important operations beacuse of it
2.communist- universal health care is socialist at best, i for one dont want to pay medical bills for some drug addict that got aids from a needle.
3. doesnt work- SARS in toronto

ok

lol...
 

da loser

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Oct 9, 1999
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the article said the economy is doing well, but i thought pretty much worldwide economies weren't that great. i looked up on the cia factbook "As a result of the close cross-border relationship, the economic sluggishness in the United States in 2001-02 had a negative impact on the Canadian economy. Real growth averaged nearly 3% during 1993-2000, but declined in 2001, with moderate recovery in 2002. Unemployment is up, with contraction in the manufacturing and natural resource sectors."

unemployment was 7.6% the labor force is $16.4 and people are/were leaving for higher paying jobs in the US.

maybe you canadians can give more insight. also explain why canadians have so much faith in their government.

there was a great show on pbs today discussing liberty. and one of the issues was how liberty doesn't entail prosperity, but freedom. i hope America doesn't give more social benefits, because it's important for immigrants to come here with a thirst and help build our nation, not get freebies.

although i thought it was interesting, canada's net migration was 6/1000 while the US was 3.5/1000. of course the US is about 9x the population. i wonder what the income level of the average immigrant is.
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
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Canada has always been a follower, never a leader; the ultimate fence-sitter. It's much easier to criticize when you never put anything at risk. The only way that a nation such as Canada can survive without a strong leader to follow is if the entire world consisted of an assortment of Canadas. Nice to think about but not going to happen on this planet.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: jjones
Canada has always been a follower, never a leader; the ultimate fence-sitter. It's much easier to criticize when you never put anything at risk. The only way that a nation such as Canada can survive without a strong leader to follow is if the entire world consisted of an assortment of Canadas. Nice to think about but not going to happen on this planet.

Tell that to out WW Vets.
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: jjones
Canada has always been a follower, never a leader; the ultimate fence-sitter. It's much easier to criticize when you never put anything at risk. The only way that a nation such as Canada can survive without a strong leader to follow is if the entire world consisted of an assortment of Canadas. Nice to think about but not going to happen on this planet.

Tell that to out WW Vets.
That just reinforces what I stated. Canada followed Britain into both world wars. Without Britain's lead, Canada would have been content to sit at home.

 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: jjones
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: jjones
Canada has always been a follower, never a leader; the ultimate fence-sitter. It's much easier to criticize when you never put anything at risk. The only way that a nation such as Canada can survive without a strong leader to follow is if the entire world consisted of an assortment of Canadas. Nice to think about but not going to happen on this planet.

Tell that to out WW Vets.
That just reinforces what I stated. Canada followed Britain into both world wars. Without Britain's lead, Canada would have been content to sit at home.

Yet, where was the US?

BTW, Canada was obligated in WW1, in WW2 Canada chose on it's own volition. Canada has put much at risk many times, perhaps you should study up on Canada's contributions before speaking.
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: jjones
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: jjones
Canada has always been a follower, never a leader; the ultimate fence-sitter. It's much easier to criticize when you never put anything at risk. The only way that a nation such as Canada can survive without a strong leader to follow is if the entire world consisted of an assortment of Canadas. Nice to think about but not going to happen on this planet.

Tell that to out WW Vets.
That just reinforces what I stated. Canada followed Britain into both world wars. Without Britain's lead, Canada would have been content to sit at home.

Yet, where was the US?

BTW, Canada was obligated in WW1, in WW2 Canada chose on it's own volition. Canada has put much at risk many times, perhaps you should study up on Canada's contributions before speaking.
I'm well aware of Canada's contributions over the years. But there's a world of difference between leading and the nature of your risk, and following and what is at risk. Why don't you study up on Canada's contributions and show us where they've taken the lead and at what risk?

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
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This is what I like about facts. Just because some guy who's looking for some rational reason for a prejudice writes some crap about how his country is so much better than my country doesn't make it true. When you get right down to it, that's all this is. This guy thinks his country is great and mine sucks. Fair enough, but if it was an American who wrote this, everyone would dismiss it as the arrogant crap it is. But since this guy is a Canadian, suddenly he's the paradigm of truth.
 

hagbard

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Nov 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: jjones
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: jjones
Canada has always been a follower, never a leader; the ultimate fence-sitter. It's much easier to criticize when you never put anything at risk. The only way that a nation such as Canada can survive without a strong leader to follow is if the entire world consisted of an assortment of Canadas. Nice to think about but not going to happen on this planet.

Tell that to out WW Vets.
That just reinforces what I stated. Canada followed Britain into both world wars. Without Britain's lead, Canada would have been content to sit at home.

Which would have been the right way to go.
 

hagbard

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Nov 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: da loser

maybe you canadians can give more insight. also explain why canadians have so much faith in their government.

We don't. Despite our reputation for being such a socialist country, we're aren't nearly as politicized as the United States. Politics isn't the religion here that it is in the States. About the only time poltics comes up is when we're once again getting screwed by the Americans, which lately appears to be a daily occurance.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: da loser

maybe you canadians can give more insight. also explain why canadians have so much faith in their government.

We don't. Despite our reputation for being such a socialist country, we're aren't nearly as politicized as the United States. Politics isn't the religion here that it is in the States. About the only time poltics comes up is when we're once again getting screwed by the Americans, which lately appears to be a daily occurance.

Or when the notion of Qubec (the nation of ) comes to the floor... eh?

 

Warin

Senior member
Sep 6, 2001
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Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: jjones
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: jjones
Canada has always been a follower, never a leader; the ultimate fence-sitter. It's much easier to criticize when you never put anything at risk. The only way that a nation such as Canada can survive without a strong leader to follow is if the entire world consisted of an assortment of Canadas. Nice to think about but not going to happen on this planet.

Tell that to out WW Vets.
That just reinforces what I stated. Canada followed Britain into both world wars. Without Britain's lead, Canada would have been content to sit at home.

Yet, where was the US?

BTW, Canada was obligated in WW1, in WW2 Canada chose on it's own volition. Canada has put much at risk many times, perhaps you should study up on Canada's contributions before speaking.

Actually, Canada coould have stayed out of WW 1 had it chosen to. As it is, nearly 10 percent of the Canadian population went to war, and 60,000 died. All volunteer, no conscription. And we started 3 years earlier than our friends to the south.

WW 2 is a similar situation. Canada could have sat out until 41 like it's isolationist neighbours to the south, but we chose not to.

And in 2001, when called, The Princess Pats went to Afghanistan to help our neighbours to the south. What did we get for it? Four body bags.

You can call into question our governments spending on defence matters. I'll be the first in line to agree that it's shameful. But please dont call our courage or determination into question. When a cause is just, we're not afraid to give what we can.