Diff b/t Cat5 and Cat5e? Also PVC cable vs. Plenum cable.

[MichaelD]

Looking to order some bulk cable. Noticed there's 5 and 5e. Diff? Also what's the diff b/t PVC and Plenum cable? Something to do w/the jacket outside?

 

[eklass]

unless you're going to eventually go gigabit, cat 5 is probably just fine... now if the price difference is fairly minor, just go with 5e, it can't hurt... pvc vs plenum? i don't know, sorry

 

[skyking]

cat5E is a better cable, designed for vertical runs, as well as horizontal. Plenum cable has a jacket that is not horribly toxic when burned, whereas regular PVC is bad stuff. Plenum is intended for use in overheads, where it will not pose a significant health hazard in a fire.
Get cat5E, and if you get Plenum, be sure to spend a few extra bucks for good stuff. I need to ask my phone system guy about specific brands, but the really cheap plenum is a real pain to work with. It A-holes and snags badly when you are pulling it. The good plenum is completely different.

 

[MichaelD]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the info.

I don't understand this "horizontal vs. vertical" stuff. I mean, electricity/signals don't know whether the wire they are on is horiz or vert! What are they talking about? Cat 5 is Cat 5, or so I thought...

 

[skyking]

It is a physical thing, not an electrical thing.

 

[Torghn]

From what I understand Cat5 is rated at 100mhz (or 100Mbit), Cat5e is rated at 350mhz (or 1Gbit). Go with Cat5e as it's about the same price as Cat5, and if you're buying in bulk it'll be good to have when you eventualy want to run 1Gbit ethernet.

 

[cmetz]

Cat5e is an extension to the cat5 spec that specifies performance for far-end crosstalk and a couple other similar things. The intent was that the overwhelming majority of cat5 installations also conform to cat5e, and it be more a clarifcation than an upgrade. For 1000BaseT, these new metrics are important, and are part of the assumptions about the cable it's going to run over -- failure to meet these specs may mean you can't get a reliable gig link over it.

Plenum-rated cable has a higher ignition temperature than non. It is also common for plenum-rated cable to be mildly fire retardant. There are certain locations (most notably, HVAC plenums and commercial subfloors) where plenum cable is required by fire code.

 

[JackMDS]

In a Nut Shell.

Cat5 will do 10/100Mb/sec. Network.

CAT5e will do 10/100Mb/sec. and the new Gig. Network.

No reason what so ever to buy left over CAT5. CAT5e is very cheap these days.

PVC Vs. Plenum.

They both can Burn. PVC smoke releases toxic fumes. Plenum will not release Toxic fumes.

So if you put the CAT5e in a Very Hot place (like next to the heating system) it is safer to use Plenum.

 

[MichaelD]

Excellent! That's the exact info I wanted. Thanks, JackMDS and cmetz.

Next question: best place to buy bulk cable/RJ45's/wall plates/etc? I've been checking out Provantage they seem pretty cheap....suggestions?

 

[JackMDS]

Keystones and Wall Plates you can find here:

Keystone,Wall Plate & Blocks.

Or:

http://www.9thtee.com/networking.htm

When ordering CAT5e check shipping price. It moght be cheaper to go to your Local Home Depot, and buy Bulk.

General Info here:

How To Terminate & Assemble Keystone Jacks.

How to make CAT5

 

[cmetz]

JackMDS, many of the materials used for plenum cables, once ignited, are actually more toxic than PVC (which itself is very very bad stuff). It's just that the ignition temperature is higher, and often there's a fire retardant in the mix that helps it not ignite. (for example, the PVC halar stuff releases trapped halon when you break the PVC molecules, which helps stop impending ignition)

MichaelD, for cheap jacks and faceplates, Home Depot is really not bad. A maybe not obvious advantage to HD is that you can easily get one more jack or one more faceplate there, while with many of the mail-order or professional shops, small orders hurt. Home Depot also has a good deal on cat5e 1000' riser cable, and they do carry cat5e plenum also.

 

[Fatt]

I actually want to make a pitch for Cat6 or even 7 if it's available yet. (Black Box might have it but I can't be bothered to call.)

I've laid more cable than Hugh Hefner has Bunnies.

ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS get the very best cable you can afford or buy. It's going to be in the walls a VERY long time.

Furthermore, the best cable may be more expensive, but the LABOR stays the same.

You see where I'm going with this?

The cost difference between the cheap stuff and the good stuff, when considered on a materials + labor basis, is very small.

 

[JackMDS]

Well I never tried to burn either.

This is a clip from an official Explanation about the issue:

PVC vs. Plenum

Choosing a riser (PVC) or plenum jacket depends on where you want to run the cable. A PVC cable features an outer polyvinyl chloride jacket that gives off toxic fumes when it burns. It's commonly used in runs between the wallplate and workstation but can also be used for horizontal runs from the wiring closet. You may use a PVC cable for vertical runs between floors, but only if the building features a contained ventilation system running through the ductwork.

Plenum cable is used between floors in a building. It has a special coating called Teflon® FEP, which doesn't give toxic fumes when it burns. Most cities now have regulations that require you to use a plenum cable when running cabling through a plenum ceiling. Plenum cable contains insulated conductors jacketed with PVDF (PolyVinylidene DiFloride) material providing low flame spread and low smoke producing properties. A plenum is a space within a building created by building components designed for the movement of environmental air. A false ceiling is not a plenum.

 

[MichaelD]

I will be checking out Home Depot (I have four within a 30-minute drive from my place)...I checked shipping on a 1000-foot box of cable.

My reaction---->:Q

I was thinking about using CAT6...but I don't plan on having a Gigabit home network anytime soon. I mean, if the diff is like $20 then I'd do it.

JackMDS Thanks for the linkies.

 

[MichaelD]

OK, the more I read, the more confused I get.

I'll be wiring a house. From the wall jacks, up thru the walls, across the attic and down to the central closet.

I will be using a patch panel.

I want solid core wire, NOT stranded, correct? I'm confused at this point. I still haven't decided whether to use the Plenum or not...if the house catches fire, the least of my worries will be toxic fumes...SMOKE is toxic, period.

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[JackMDS]

Electronically Solid core is a better Cable. In the wall you use Solid core. The Stranded Core is for patches that a re-plugged and move.

My comment about the PVC Vs. Plenum mainly applies to commercial installation.

If your Cable does not go through very hot conduits use regular CAT5e.

 

[MichaelD]

Thanks a lot, JackMDS; you've been very helpful w/this. My network to be thanks you very much too.

 

[cmetz]

Fatt, there's basically two approaches you can take towards network wiring: either you build something trying to be as future-proof as possible, or you build something that meets today's needs cost optimally. Anything in the middle ends up being kinda the worst of both. My home network, and networks where I make the call, are built future-proof. But the average person doing home networking will be quite happy with cat5e, it'll carry them to 1000BaseT and maybe beyond, and it's cheap.

So for the original poster: if cost isn't a huge issue, cat6 is better. If cost is an issue (and because you had heartburn over shipping costs, sounds like it), go cat5e.

JackMDS, where did you get that explanation? I have specifically been told that Teflon burns more toxic than PVC, and was told this by Anixter. I haven't tested toxicity, but I have ignited cables before (I don't trust manufacturers' claims much) and certainly Teflon is much harder to start but the look and smell of it burning is much worse. I don't know anything about PVDF, I was told that plenum cables I've worked with in the past and worried about flammability with were a PVC Halar, that is, a halide molecule trapped inside the PVC ring that gets freed when the PVC molecule's bonds are broken as part of the process of burning. The halide then bonds with multiple oxygen molecules, asphyxiating (sp?) the flame around it. You can see this process by igniting some plenum cable, it's fussy to start, then literally blows itself out (did in my tests at least), but there's only about one shot of that effect, then once you ignite it again it burns.

I believe and have always assumed that you don't wanna be around when any cable burns - it's going to be somewhat toxic no matter what. And frankly, the cables are going to be the least of your worries at that point.

The other issue with plenum cables (back to the original thread) is that it helps stop fire from being carried by the cable itself and extinguish fires within plenums / conduits. I believe there were problems with the first WTC bombing and cables burning that resulted in more attention being paid to this problem. There is apparently a grade of fire resistance/retardance above mere plenum cable that is required in certain kinds of commercial installations in some jurisdictions, I don't know much about it though. I like to use plenum cable for between-floor runs for this reason.

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: cmetz
Fatt, there's basically two approaches you can take towards network wiring: either you build something trying to be as future-proof as possible, or you build something that meets today's needs cost optimally. Anything in the middle ends up being kinda the worst of both. My home network, and networks where I make the call, are built future-proof. But the average person doing home networking will be quite happy with cat5e, it'll carry them to 1000BaseT and maybe beyond, and it's cheap.

So for the original poster: if cost isn't a huge issue, cat6 is better. If cost is an issue (and because you had heartburn over shipping costs, sounds like it), go cat5e.

JackMDS, where did you get that explanation? I have specifically been told that Teflon burns more toxic than PVC, and was told this by Anixter. I haven't tested toxicity, but I have ignited cables before (I don't trust manufacturers' claims much) and certainly Teflon is much harder to start but the look and smell of it burning is much worse. I don't know anything about PVDF, I was told that plenum cables I've worked with in the past and worried about flammability with were a PVC Halar, that is, a halide molecule trapped inside the PVC ring that gets freed when the PVC molecule's bonds are broken as part of the process of burning. The halide then bonds with multiple oxygen molecules, asphyxiating (sp?) the flame around it. You can see this process by igniting some plenum cable, it's fussy to start, then literally blows itself out (did in my tests at least), but there's only about one shot of that effect, then once you ignite it again it burns.

I believe and have always assumed that you don't wanna be around when any cable burns - it's going to be somewhat toxic no matter what. And frankly, the cables are going to be the least of your worries at that point.

The other issue with plenum cables (back to the original thread) is that it helps stop fire from being carried by the cable itself and extinguish fires within plenums / conduits. I believe there were problems with the first WTC bombing and cables burning that resulted in more attention being paid to this problem. There is apparently a grade of fire resistance/retardance above mere plenum cable that is required in certain kinds of commercial installations in some jurisdictions, I don't know much about it though. I like to use plenum cable for between-floor runs for this reason.

Nice logical reply. What about within a one-story house w/an attic/basement? Still use Plenum or will the regular PVC stuff be fine?

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: cmetzJackMDS, where did you get that explanation?

The above paragraphs were taken from a PDF file that I have concerning Plenum Cables.

You can look here for a Defention:

searchNetworking.com Definitions - Plenum.

If you notice the emphasis is on: ?Because ordinary cable introduces a toxic hazard in the event of fire, special plenum cabling is required in plenum areas.?

BTW. Notice the mentioning of Plenum Area (that is why the Cable is called Plenum) Not too many Private homes have ?Plenum Area?.

 

[cmetz]

If you have a one-story house, you're probably either doing your drops basement-up or attic-down, in which case you're kinda sorta not crossing floors and it's not an issue. If you had a wire going from basement to attic in a two-story house, I'd use plenum for those, especially if it's running in the actual HVAC plenum duct (which it often has to). That is not required by code, however, so it could be considered a bit paranoid (many friends of mine who wired their two story houses just used non-plenum/riser-rated cable).

For your situation, you're probably fine with riser-rated cable.

The reality is that if your house is on fire, the cable will be a very very minor concern, toxcity or otherwise.

 

[MichaelD]

Thank you. I love this place. I learn more by asking a few questions here, than reading any 10 sites out there.

 

[cmetz]

JackMDS, I don't trust random sites on the web for information, you know how much misinformation is out there. Just because that site says that doesn't mean it's true. I trust some of the people I've worked with at Anixter more, but admittedly they're not the end all source either.

I'll email Berk-Tek and Belden and see what they have to say.

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: cmetz
JackMDS, I don't trust random sites on the web for information, you know how much misinformation is out there. Just because that site says that doesn't mean it's true. I trust some of the people I've worked with at Anixter more, but admittedly they're not the end all source either.

I'll email Berk-Tek and Belden and see what they have to say.

I am a believer of Karl Popper?s methodology of scientific research.

According to this method you have always to assume that something can be wrong with your work and at a certain point a new explanation will come up. So, I can be wrong on the issue at hand.

However, I did a lot of scientific research in my time I have numerous amounts of scientific publications (non network related). I even thought research methodology at Graduate School. I usually cross check issues like the above.

 

[ScottMac]

Plenum cable doesn't use teflon anymore, it was banned right along with the cfc freons.

It's just another flavor of tougher plastic, with a higher FLASH POINT (ignition from high ambient temps).

It's still toxic, but has a higher flash point that standard PVC.

There is a "safe"jacketing that's rated higher than Plenum, and doesn't produce toxic smoke. It's much more expensive than plenum, which is ~double the price of PVC. I think it's LSZH, ZHLS ... (Zero Halogen, Low Smoke) ...something like that (brain fart).

"In the wall" cabling is solid core, and doesn't have to be plenum rated. You only need plenum rated when you are installing the cable in a "plenum" (air duct / air space - like the overhead ceiling that's being used as an air return for an HVAC system).

When Teflon was being phased out, some of the conductors were teflon / PTFE, some were another plastic. Then someone figured out that doing that would change the velocity factor of one pair compared to another .... so there was a not-quite-panic Lab session to test the "skew' to make sure it still was within the compliance spec (It was).

Check out the Anixter technical database for more info (www.anixter.com "Tech Library")

Good Luck

Scott