Didn't leave a tip at several restaurants

[Exterous]

Yet still had great service even after I handed them the final, signed bill. No tip jars and no line to leave a tip on a card, even for places that didn't accept cash. Granted this was in the Netherlands and Belgium but our notion that you need to tip to get good or even decent service needs to go

 

[ponyo]

The older I get, the more I hate the tipping system. Fine dining is really the only place I say tip is warranted. Everywhere else we're rewarding and subsidizing mediocrity.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Yet still had great service even after I handed them the final, signed bill. No tip jars and no line to leave a tip on a card, even for places that didn't accept cash. Granted this was in the Netherlands and Belgium but our notion that you need to tip to get good or even decent service needs to go

So, you are therefore in favor of raising the minimum wage for service employees, and nationalizing healthcare?

 

[lxskllr]

I like the tip system. It gives me choice, and I'd wager a good tipped employee out earns any peer in a non tipping country.

 

[ponyo]

I like the tip system. It gives me choice, and I'd wager a good tipped employee out earns any peer in a non tipping country.

It's not really a choice. Social pressure ask that we tip base 15% if they do their job and provide mediocre service.

 

[lxskllr]

It's not really a choice. Social pressure ask that we tip base 15% for doing their job and providing mediocre service.

No one's gonna break your kneecaps if you don't, but if you got good service, and didn't leave a tip, you're a piece of shit. From the waiter's perspective, that's the cost of doing business. You win some, you lose some. If you're a good waiter in a good establishment, you should come out ahead.

 

[Exterous]

So, you are therefore in favor of raising the minimum wage for service employees, and nationalizing healthcare?

Stop reaching. All I said was the notion that tipping is required to get good service is absurd despite the frequent claims that it is. Its a point thats been debated for years on here. As an aside - removing tipping doesn't require the raising of minimum wage laws. Lots of cases where restaurants have done away with it without a federally mandated wage change and, last time I checked, our healthcare wasn't nationalized.

I like the tip system. It gives me choice, and I'd wager a good tipped employee out earns any peer in a non tipping country.

There's a fairly long list of reasons to not use a tipping system. Quite a few studies show its discriminatory, encourages higher backroom staff turnover (helped by anti-tip sharing laws), reduces waitstaff happiness (more stress and conflict about premium shift schedules). Studies have even shown the weather outside that day has the same effect on tip size as the quality of service. About the only flimsy support for it is that it supposedly encourages better service but there is nothing to show that that is true.

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/06/22/137255535/the-friday-podcast-why-do-we-tip
https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-it-time-to-end-tipping-1456715614
http://www.tippingresearch.com/uploads/ServerAppearance1-3-08.pdf

 

[ponyo]

No one's gonna break your kneecaps if you don't, but if you got good service, and didn't leave a tip, you're a piece of shit. From the waiter's perspective, that's the cost of doing business. You win some, you lose some. If you're a good waiter in a good establishment, you should come out ahead.

I leave decent tip even if I don't get good service if I want to return to the restaurant because I like the food. Is that really a choice? I feel like I'm forced to leave a decent tip even if the waiter didn't deserve it because I like the food put out by the kitchen. I don't have that problem at most fine dining because the service is generally excellent. So I don't have an issue with tipping at fine dining. They deserve the tip.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

The older I get, the more I hate the tipping system. Fine dining is really the only place I say tip is warranted. Everywhere else we're rewarding and subsidizing mediocrity.

Even in fine dining, the waiter might need some extra training, but the price of the meals is enough that a fair wage for the server should be built into the price. The cost of the meal includes the food itself, rent, utilities plus the wages for the chef, sous chef, lawyer, bookkeeper, etc. it can damn well include the service too.

If anything fine dining is what skews the idea of tipping. A person delivering a $10 entree from kitchen to table is doing the same amount of work as one delivering a $40 entree. Why should one deserve four times the tip for walking those 20 steps?

 

[brianmanahan]

YaTT

 

[MrSquished]

Even in fine dining, the waiter might need some extra training, but the price of the meals is enough that a fair wage for the server should be built into the price. The cost of the meal includes the food itself, rent, utilities plus the wages for the chef, sous chef, lawyer, bookkeeper, etc. it can damn well include the service too.

If anything fine dining is what skews the idea of tipping. A person delivering a $10 entree from kitchen to table is doing the same amount of work as one delivering a $40 entree. Why should one deserve four times the tip for walking those 20 steps?

It's somewhat harder to do a good job at a higher end restaurant. I worked in one. Not too high end but a nicer restaurant. You have to know so much more about the food, some wine pairings and general knowledge. You have to be impeccable. It's generally a lot more serious. Prepping for service could take longer. You do get a family style meal though, before dinner service. That was nice.

 

[ponyo]

Even in fine dining, the waiter might need some extra training, but the price of the meals is enough that a fair wage for the server should be built into the price. The cost of the meal includes the food itself, rent, utilities plus the wages for the chef, sous chef, lawyer, bookkeeper, etc. it can damn well include the service too.

If anything fine dining is what skews the idea of tipping. A person delivering a $10 entree from kitchen to table is doing the same amount of work as one delivering a $40 entree. Why should one deserve four times the tip for walking those 20 steps?

They deserve the four times the tip because they do lot more than walk 20 steps. It's hard just getting ice water refilled without asking or waiting 10 minutes at $10 entree place. At $40 entree place, you don't have to do or say anything. They anticipate your needs and provide things before you can even speak and offer things you had no idea you even needed. It's like they're mind readers. They clean up the table and bring you new set of silverwares and plates every time after each tasting item or course. They really take care of you for 2 to 3 hours you're dining.

The problem is every waiter thinks they should get the same tip as the waiters at fine dining. The service at most casual to moderate dining is generally mediocre. Yet prices can often approach fine dining prices. They pretty much only walk the 20 steps and drop the food off at the table and disappear until the final check and expect 20 percent tip. That's what I have problem with.

 

[Svnla]

First of all, another thread about tipping. This will be fun with plenty of firework.

I haven't been to Europe but I have been to several countries in Asia and none of them is required you to tip. I think (IIRC) in Japan, if you tip, it would be an insult.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I generally tip 20%, cause I'm not a cheapass. Even at the buffet place. But maybe I'm unusual.

(I am cheap when it comes to computer hardware though. )

 

[lxskllr]

I generally tip 20%, cause I'm not a cheapass. Even at the buffet place. But maybe I'm unusual.

(I am cheap when it comes to computer hardware though. )

20% is my default. It may go up, and I've never had service bad enough to warrant <10%.

The only tipping that irritates me is counter jars for staff that are merely doing their job. Dumping some liquid from a pot, and transferring an object from one counter to another doesn't warrant any extra money, especially with the item prices being the expected amount, and not price reduced.

 

[zerocool84]

It baffles me why some of you tip let alone tip 20% for bad service. You are rewarding them for bad service. A tip is not expected, it has to be earned. Read the definition of gratuity.

 

[ponyo]

It baffles me why some of you tip let alone tip 20% for bad service. You are rewarding them for bad service. A tip is not expected, it has to be earned. Read the definition of gratuity.

It's social pressure. 20% tip used to be for great service at restaurant. Now 20% is expected even for mediocre service. We pay the bribe money because we don't want to upset them and have to confront them next time we return.

There's this pho place I eat at. The service is generally subpar. But they have the best pho so I never complain. I pay my 20% so I don't piss them off like the Seinfeld soup nazi. And there's this korean BBQ I go to. They have the best korean BBQ in the city. My bill is usually over $300 for 3 without any alcohol. That's over $100 per person so it's almost fine dining price. But service is generally subpar and we cook the meat. I have to track down waitress to get refills and things we need. That would never happen at fine dining. Yet they expect minimum 20% tip. And I always pay it because the food is good. In Asia, I wouldn't have to pay tip at the pho or korean BBQ places.

 

[nutxo]

Tipping sucks. I regularly do take out from Vietnamese place and there is a spot on the receipt for a tip. Like I should tip for someone taking my order? Same thing at a taco place I go to. I order at the counter and they ask for tips before I even get my food.
We go to to a Chinese buffet and they want tips for bringing my drinks and bringing me my check after I eat. One day the manager tells me the waiters work for tips I asked if that was legal and he just walked away.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Yet still had great service even after I handed them the final, signed bill. No tip jars and no line to leave a tip on a card, even for places that didn't accept cash. Granted this was in the Netherlands and Belgium but our notion that you need to tip to get good or even decent service needs to go

Let me counter this experience. Back in 2014 when the wife and I spent nearly a month in the UK on vacation our first dining experience was an eye-opener. She sat down, ordered and ate, and then waited for the staff to come back so we could pay and leave. Ten minutes no one. Fifteen. Twenty. Shoot, almost a freaking half an hour went buy before I flagged someone down. Learned that our waitress had left for the day. We had no idea we could do what we did only 30 minutes after the fact.

Considering this was in London during the holidays where many 'out of town'rs' come in to shop and play I was stunned by this Yank not being educated by the pretty waitress. instead, we wound up wasting time and needlessly occupying a table. Just not use to it. but, the day they stop tipping stateside will like parents paying 100% for their kids public education from Prek-12. Another thing that will never happen.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I generally tip 20%, cause I'm not a cheapass. Even at the buffet place. But maybe I'm unusual.

(I am cheap when it comes to computer hardware though. )

All of your other threads would say otherwise. Use a coupon at the buffet?

 

[zerocool84]

Tipping sucks. I regularly do take out from Vietnamese place and there is a spot on the receipt for a tip. Like I should tip for someone taking my order? Same thing at a taco place I go to. I order at the counter and they ask for tips before I even get my food.
We go to to a Chinese buffet and they want tips for bringing my drinks and bringing me my check after I eat. One day the manager tells me the waiters work for tips I asked if that was legal and he just walked away.

Why wouldn't it be legal?

 

[TallBill]

I'd much prefer to tip than get the standard service in Germany. I've had a mixed bag of results in all the other countries.

 

[Captante]

yaatottt?

Talk about beating a dead horse ....

 

[Exterous]

Let me counter this experience. Back in 2014 when the wife and I spent nearly a month in the UK on vacation our first dining experience was an eye-opener. She sat down, ordered and ate, and then waited for the staff to come back so we could pay and leave. Ten minutes no one. Fifteen. Twenty. Shoot, almost a freaking half an hour went buy before I flagged someone down. Learned that our waitress had left for the day. We had no idea we could do what we did only 30 minutes after the fact.

We had that happen just a few months ago in the US. I've also spent several weeks in the UK (along with a fair bit of time in a number of other countries.) and the very few negative service experiences I've had overseas doesn't seem to support the notion that tipping = better service. I'd go so far to say that a couple of countries notably exceed my average US waiter experience at a similar overall price point despite a drastic difference in tipping custom

yaatottt?

Talk about beating a dead horse ....

I thought I saw its leg twitch

 

[Captante]

I thought I saw its leg twitch

It's not dead it just smells funny!