Did you know that you can be sworn in on a book other than a bible? *Retarded silence*

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ch33zw1z

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,767
18,045
146
Atreus21 said:
I don't argue with the point that the Bible isn't required - it's not.

My question is about the nature of an oath.
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The nature of an oath is to honor your word and expressed intentions. This really isnt diffcult.

If I tell my kid that he and I will go do something on this day and time, and I give him my word, promise, whatever you want to call.....then I dont do it, he would be upset I broke my commitment to my word and him. This is literally the same thing, trust is broken. Even children understand this principle.
 
P

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,049
7,976
136
Atreus21 said:
So if people can lie under oath, and get away with it, of what purpose is the oath?

That's exactly the point. You take an oath not because you fear earthly justice, but divine justice.
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But how does anyone else, outside the oath-taker's head, actually know whether the oath-taker truly fears divine justice? As nobody else can know what the truth is about such an internal state, making it about God doesn't add any practical benefit.
 
P

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,049
7,976
136
WelshBloke said:
Cool. So as I don't believe in a higher power I'm free to break any oath I want?
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Presumably that's Atreus21's point - that as a Godless Welshman (who should be run out of their valley by the good Chapel-goers, incidentally) you are just inherently untrustworthy. He'd rather take the word of a believer like Trump, Nixon or Osama Bin Laden. Those guys, being believers, would never tell an untruth under oath.
 
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Thebobo

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
Atreus21 said:
Read Dante's Inferno, or just a summary of it, and find out.
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A 14 century poem?

pmv said:
Presumably that's Atreus21's point - that as a Godless Welshman (who should be run out of their valley by the good Chapel-goers, incidentally) you are just inherently untrustworthy. He'd rather take the word of a believer like Trump, Nixon or Osama Bin Laden. Those guys, being believers, would never tell an untruth under oath.
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So which god/religion? And this is just the more popular list.
  1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
  2. Islam: 1.3 billion
  3. Hinduism: 900 million
  4. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
  5. Buddhism: 376 million
  6. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
  7. Sikhism: 23 million
  8. Juche: 19 million
  9. Spiritism: 15 million
  10. Judaism: 14 million
  11. Baha'i: 7 million
  12. Jainism: 4.2 million
  13. Shinto: 4 million
  14. Cao Dai: 4 million
  15. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
  16. Tenrikyo: 2 million
  17. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
  18. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
  19. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
  20. Scientology: 500 thousand
 
WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,449
8,110
136
pmv said:
Presumably that's Atreus21's point - that as a Godless Welshman (who should be run out of their valley by the good Chapel-goers, incidentally) you are just inherently untrustworthy. He'd rather take the word of a believer like Trump, Nixon or Osama Bin Laden. Those guys, being believers, would never tell an untruth under oath.
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My point would be that I don't give a shit about Atreus21's opinion of me but I'll take the option of being allowed to lie under oath whenever I fancy!
 
WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,449
8,110
136
pmv said:
But how does anyone else, outside the oath-taker's head, actually know whether the oath-taker truly fears divine justice? As nobody else can know what the truth is about such an internal state, making it about God doesn't add any practical benefit.
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Well if he really believes we should get him to lend us money with the only surity that we pay him back being that we swear to do so on the Bible!
 
P

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,049
7,976
136
Thebobo said:
A 14 century poem?



So which god/religion? And this is just the more popular list.
  1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
  2. Islam: 1.3 billion
  3. Hinduism: 900 million
  4. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
  5. Buddhism: 376 million
  6. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
  7. Sikhism: 23 million
  8. Juche: 19 million
  9. Spiritism: 15 million
  10. Judaism: 14 million
  11. Baha'i: 7 million
  12. Jainism: 4.2 million
  13. Shinto: 4 million
  14. Cao Dai: 4 million
  15. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
  16. Tenrikyo: 2 million
  17. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
  18. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
  19. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
  20. Scientology: 500 thousand
Click to expand...

Well, presumably whichever God the oath-taker believes in. The difficulty is for others to judge whether the particular God the oath-taker has in mind are themselves trustworthy (and every believer in a God is likely to have their own personal conception of exactly what they are, that may not be precisely the same as that of their co-religionists)

Though if they swear an oath to the Pseudologoi, one might be especially suspicious.
 
GagHalfrunt

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,000
126
Atreus21 said:
All of this is completely repetitive. It's admitted at the outset that divine justice isn't given until you die. A smart man might outsmart other men, but not his Creator.
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All of that is completely imaginary. What about the laws of god that the big books of religious fairy tales say god will do NOW? He doesn't do any of that shit either. You say yourself "a higher power to hold you to your word". Yet in your little fantasy land the higher power doesn't actually hold anyone to anything, he just supposedly punishes the transgressors eventually.

But see, you have your god all wrong. He's a lying sack of shit that doesn't keep his own word, so why would he take offense that the people he created in his image follow his example? Maybe he rewards the biggest oath breakers for being true to him.
 
bshole

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,313
1,214
126
GagHalfrunt said:
All of that is completely imaginary. What about the laws of god that the big books of religious fairy tales say god will do NOW? He doesn't do any of that shit either. You say yourself "a higher power to hold you to your word". Yet in your little fantasy land the higher power doesn't actually hold anyone to anything, he just supposedly punishes the transgressors eventually.

But see, you have your god all wrong. He's a lying sack of shit that doesn't keep his own word, so why would he take offense that the people he created in his image follow his example? Maybe he rewards the biggest oath breakers for being true to him.
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Merry Christmas GagHalfrunt.... love your avatar.

Now I hope the great spaghetti monster doesn't strike me dead for saying "Merry Christmas". Perhaps if I sacrifice a few meatballs to him tonight everything will be ok.
 
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W

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,460
1,570
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GagHalfrunt said:
All of that is completely imaginary. What about the laws of god that the big books of religious fairy tales say god will do NOW? He doesn't do any of that shit either. You say yourself "a higher power to hold you to your word". Yet in your little fantasy land the higher power doesn't actually hold anyone to anything, he just supposedly punishes the transgressors eventually.

But see, you have your god all wrong. He's a lying sack of shit that doesn't keep his own word, so why would he take offense that the people he created in his image follow his example? Maybe he rewards the biggest oath breakers for being true to him.
Click to expand...
Being held accountable by other people is far more effective anyway.
 
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GagHalfrunt

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,000
126
bshole said:
Merry Christmas GagHalfrunt.... love your avatar.

Now I hope the great spaghetti monster doesn't strike me dead for saying "Merry Christmas". Perhaps if I sacrifice a few meatballs to him tonight everything will be ok.
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And garlic bread. Let there be much garlic bread! Don't sweat it though, our Noodly Master doesn't strike anyone dead. He never even threatens it. That sets him apart from the fictional gods who threaten to do it, yet never come through. Ramen.

whm1974 said:
Being held accountable by other people is far more effective anyway.
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That's what I said above, Laws of Man 1 - Laws of god 0. The invisible man in the sky is impotent, he can't do shit. The laws of man govern our behavior.
 
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bshole

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,313
1,214
126
GagHalfrunt said:
And garlic bread. Let there be much garlic bread! Don't sweat it though, our Noodly Master doesn't strike anyone dead. He never even threatens it. That sets him apart from the fictional gods who threaten to do it, yet never come through. Ramen.

That's what I said above, Laws of Man 1 - Laws of god 0. The invisible man in the sky is impotent, he can't do shit. The laws of man govern our behavior.
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Do you have an address that I can send a check to so that you can continue the ministry? I will throw in an extra $50 dollars if you threaten to boil me in pasta sauce for eternity if I don't believe.
 
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GagHalfrunt

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,000
126
bshole said:
Do you have an address that I can send a check to so that you can continue the ministry? I will throw in an extra $50 dollars if you threaten to boil me in pasta sauce for eternity if I don't believe.
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Make it $100 or you'll not only be boiled in pasta sauce, but it will be BAD pasta sauce. The jarred stuff with way too much sugar and bell peppers.
 
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blankslate

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,596
475
126
Yes, a member of Congress was sworn in on the Koran at one time...

of course that was before consultants who made out with close to 800 million last election lost to Trump but hey...


_____________
 
Puffnstuff

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,030
4,798
136
I think that Republicans should be required by law to be sworn in on a Fruit Loops box.:p
 
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