Did you know that you can be sworn in on a book other than a bible? *Retarded silence*

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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,733
18,003
146
'What is an oath, then, but words we say to God?"

I don't understand the concept of taking an oath without some kind of witness, historically a divine one. The entire idea is that you will break it on peril of your soul, that you will be held accountable by an authority higher than man's.

If you can break free of the religious bubble for a just a bit, you'll see that the deity is not a requirement for an oath.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
If you can break free of the religious bubble for a just a bit, you'll see that the deity is not a requirement for an oath.

It's hard to conceive of an oath, at least one that means anything, outside of an appeal to a higher power to hold you to your word.
 

Stryke1983

Member
Jan 1, 2016
176
268
136
Well what does an oath mean outside of it?

A promise where you use a revered object, person or idea as a witness in addition to regular witnesses.

Unless I'm misunderstanding US law, how can there be any question that a Bible (or by extension, an appeal to a 'higher power') is unnecessary when your own constitution specifically states that there is no religious requirement to hold office?
 
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Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
It means the same because it means nothing. How many people have lied under oath? And did God somehow punish them because they said so help me god?

So if people can lie under oath, and get away with it, of what purpose is the oath?

That's exactly the point. You take an oath not because you fear earthly justice, but divine justice.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,733
18,003
146
So if people can lie under oath, and get away with it, of what purpose is the oath?

That's exactly the point. You take an oath not because you fear earthly justice, but divine justice.
if you dont fear earthly justice, then lying under oath was unnecessary.

people lie under oath, after swearing on the bible too. useless gesture.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
So if people can lie under oath, and get away with it, of what purpose is the oath?

That's exactly the point. You take an oath not because you fear earthly justice, but divine justice.

So after you slithered away your live running foul over everyone you then die and you going to get punished in the afterlife? What exactly happens, god forces you to watch ellen 24/7?
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
A promise where you use a revered object, person or idea as a witness in addition to regular witnesses.

Unless I'm misunderstanding US law, how can there be any question that a Bible (or by extension, an appeal to a 'higher power') is unnecessary when your own constitution specifically states that there is no religious requirement to hold office?

I don't argue with the point that the Bible isn't required - it's not.

My question is about the nature of an oath.
 

Stryke1983

Member
Jan 1, 2016
176
268
136
So if people can lie under oath, and get away with it, of what purpose is the oath?

That's exactly the point. You take an oath not because you fear earthly justice, but divine justice.

You can be punished by "earthly justice" for breaking an oath. Whether formally, when it's actually illegal, or informally via your reputation and how you are treated by others. Your argument is nonsensical.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,000
126
It's hard to conceive of an oath, at least one that means anything, outside of an appeal to a higher power to hold you to your word.

Right, that's why the law has perjury charges to punish those who don't keep their words. And why the law has power to enforce contracts.

Hey, I've seen a lot of people who get up on an altar before an invisible man in the sky and they swear oaths until death do them part. And yet 50% of them wind up not keeping their words. The higher power seems pretty powerless to hold them to it.

Law of man 1 - Laws of god 0
 
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Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
So after you slithered away your live running foul over everyone you then die and you going to get punished in the afterlife? What exactly happens, god forces you to watch ellen 24/7?

Read Dante's Inferno, or just a summary of it, and find out.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
Right, that's why the law has perjury charges to punish those who don't keep their words. And why the law has power to enforce contracts.

Hey, I've seen a lot of people who get up on an altar before an invisible man in the sky and they swear oaths until death do them part. And yet 50% of them wind up not keeping their words. The higher power seems pretty powerless to hold them to it.

Law of man 1 - Laws of god 0

All of this is completely repetitive. It's admitted at the outset that divine justice isn't given until you die. A smart man might outsmart other men, but not his Creator.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,202
4,401
136
So if people can lie under oath, and get away with it, of what purpose is the oath?

That's exactly the point. You take an oath not because you fear earthly justice, but divine justice.

The oath means nothing anyway, either you already fear divine justice and the oath adds nothing more, or you don't and the oath (by your argument) also means nothing.

Personally, I see an oath as a official, and unambiguous, statement of ones word of honor. In the end ones word is all they really have. If a person is not trustworthy than people should not trust them, at all. That is what an oath is, a statement that this is my word, and if I should break it I expect to be ostracized from society for not being worth it's trust.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,331
7,986
136
It's hard to conceive of an oath, at least one that means anything, outside of an appeal to a higher power to hold you to your word.
Cool. So as I don't believe in a higher power I'm free to break any oath I want?