Did you know Kerry Lost Ohio by 1 vote per precinct in 2004?

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
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Just saw this and gotta say wow! I always thought Bush had a much more decisive margin of victory here.



DILLONVALE, Ohio - So much for the 50-state strategy. Barack Obama, who once pledged to compete in every state, has shifted his thinking. Now, he'll pick and choose where to spend time and money.

Despite early optimism, Obama's strategists are mapping out an electoral plan similar to Democrat John Kerry's from 2004. Obama still is pushing into traditionally Republican and rural areas, such as this farm region along the Ohio River. But don't look for the Democratic presidential nominee in, say, undeniably GOP Idaho.

Obama made a beeline for the Rust Belt when he left the Democratic National Convention last week. With a swing through Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan, Obama signaled the importance of this region to his campaign. Kerry won Pennsylvania and Michigan ? two states where Obama strategists think their chances are iffy ? and lost Ohio by a one-vote-per-precinct margin in 2004.

Obama has long looked for a way to win the White House without the 20 electoral votes of Ohio, the prototypical swing state. His top aides, including his campaign manager, once said they could lose the state and still win the election by picking off states that typically support Republicans.

No more.

The campaign is quietly eyeing a states' map similar to the one used in past elections, with a few exceptions. Obama this week dropped advertising in Georgia, a traditionally Republican state that he considered winnable based on increased voter registration among blacks and young people.

The updated plan puts Ohio and its neighbors back at the top of the list. And for good reason.

Lots of new voters registered for the state's March primary, and Democrats now enjoy a 900,000-person advantage on state voter rolls. Pennsylvania favors Obama by a million registered Democrats. Michigan doesn't register by political party.

Yet Democrats who supported Hillary Rodham Clinton during the primaries haven't completely swung over to Obama, according to his campaign's internal polling. Aides are optimistic they will get there before November, aided by events such as Obama's discussion Wednesday about women and the economy in eastern Ohio.

Obama aides also believe that Republican nominee John McCain is unlikely to match the GOP voter turnout that President Bush got in 2004, something McCain's own aides acknowledge. The Obama campaign also is trying to narrow the margin of Obama's loss in rural regions, such as this area in rural Ohio where cell phones don't work and bales of hay line the winding roads.

"I don't think John McCain gets what's going on here in Ohio," Obama told a family picnic. "When you agree with George Bush 90 percent of the time, you probably don't know what's going on."

A new electoral equation still remains a goal for Obama and the Democratic Party, particularly with an eye toward down-ticket House, Senate and gubernatorial races. But Obama's pledge to compete everywhere has quietly been pared back to about a dozen high-priority states, including Michigan, Pennsylvania and Virginia.

The effort also is meant to force McCain to spend money for staff and advertising in states he might have considered safely his.

Ohio, a sprawling state that blends urban centers such as Cleveland with farm country, was the linchpin for Bush's re-election in 2004. Obama's staff is targeting voters there on a street-by-street basis.

No Republican has ever won the presidency without carrying Ohio, and only two Democrats in recent history have done so. This is a state where blue-collar workers fear a contracting economy, the Iraq war remains unpopular and elected officials fret as their college graduates leave for other states.

Obama and McCain are running about even in the state: Obama was at 47 percent and McCain 45 percent in a CNN-Opinion Research Corp. poll of registered voters conducted Aug. 31-Sept. 2. As the local economy has worsened in recent years, both campaigns see reason to redouble their efforts and focus on pocketbook issues.

McCain has seen frustration directed at his slow start and disquiet among social conservatives melt away. His pick of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, who is solidly opposed to abortion rights, gave McCain a boost among social conservatives, a voting bloc that dominates the southwest corner of Ohio, central Pennsylvania and northern Michigan.

Obama lost 83 of the state's 88 counties during his primary campaign against Clinton. Some Obama aides worry the outcome might be similar come November; McCain's advisers expect it to be even worse for his Democratic rival.

It's telling that Obama traveled to the state twice in less than a week. He'll be back.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...ky4ydRram7swogu1nCw5R4

 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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Originally posted by: mshan
Obama this week dropped advertising in Georgia, a traditionally Republican state that he considered winnable based on increased voter registration among blacks and young people.
I am curious to see whether black turnout improves this year. If it doesn't, it's hard to imagine it will for the foreseeable future. Personally, I'm guessing it won't.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: mshan
Obama this week dropped advertising in Georgia, a traditionally Republican state that he considered winnable based on increased voter registration among blacks and young people.
I am curious to see whether black turnout improves this year. If it doesn't, it's hard to imagine it will for the foreseeable future. Personally, I'm guessing it won't.

I'd imagine the black turnout will be a little higher, but probably not significantly so to make a difference in Georgia (at least thats what Obama's camp is signalling by dropping their advertising).
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
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Kerry only gets a bad rap because people think Bush was unpopular enough at that time that any Democrat should've been a sure thing. I tend to disagree, while he wasn't a great candidate he came about as close as he should have but in the end it was basically a toss-up. Hypotheticals are difficult in presidential contests but that could've been Clinton's year, the only reason it could not have been is because it may have highlighted 9/11 even more.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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Originally posted by: Farang
Kerry only gets a bad rap...

Kerry blew it b/c the plurality of the electorate prefers the hick image a la Palin. The Dems should have and probably still should choose someone like Clinton who is of hick blood but has a brain.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Farang
Kerry only gets a bad rap...

Kerry blew it b/c the plurality of the electorate prefers the hick image a la Palin. The Dems should have and probably still should choose someone like Clinton who is of hick blood but has a brain.
You do realize there was history prior to when you became semi-sentient and entered your liberal arts degree?

Bush I, Reagan, Carter (doh), Ford, Nixon, Johnson (doh), Kennedy (exception)

Maybe it's the dems who prefer "hicks"...not the plurality of the electorate...since back to Kennedy I'm not seeing any "hicks", but I count 4 dem "hicks".

btw, welcome back, looks like you're back in true elitist partisan trolling form for the elections!

 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
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Originally posted by: Double Trouble
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: mshan
Obama this week dropped advertising in Georgia, a traditionally Republican state that he considered winnable based on increased voter registration among blacks and young people.
I am curious to see whether black turnout improves this year. If it doesn't, it's hard to imagine it will for the foreseeable future. Personally, I'm guessing it won't.

I'd imagine the black turnout will be a little higher, but probably not significantly so to make a difference in Georgia (at least thats what Obama's camp is signalling by dropping their advertising).

Droppign Georgia too? Interesting. Also heard that Florida was being dropped from the current tv ad rotation. Money problems?
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
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Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Farang
Kerry only gets a bad rap...

Kerry blew it b/c the plurality of the electorate prefers the hick image a la Palin. The Dems should have and probably still should choose someone like Clinton who is of hick blood but has a brain.
You do realize there was history prior to when you became semi-sentient and entered your liberal arts degree?

Bush I, Reagan, Carter (doh), Ford, Nixon, Johnson (doh), Kennedy (exception)

Maybe it's the dems who prefer "hicks"...not the plurality of the electorate...since back to Kennedy I'm not seeing any "hicks", but I count 4 dem "hicks".

Dear Doofus: you are proving my point. I'm saying that the Dems SHOULD choose hicks because they get elected as they have in the past. What part of that don't you understand? It's not just Democrats that vote in the general election.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,914
3
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Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Farang
Kerry only gets a bad rap...

Kerry blew it b/c the plurality of the electorate prefers the hick image a la Palin. The Dems should have and probably still should choose someone like Clinton who is of hick blood but has a brain.
You do realize there was history prior to when you became semi-sentient and entered your liberal arts degree?

Bush I, Reagan, Carter (doh), Ford, Nixon, Johnson (doh), Kennedy (exception)

Maybe it's the dems who prefer "hicks"...not the plurality of the electorate...since back to Kennedy I'm not seeing any "hicks", but I count 4 dem "hicks".

btw, welcome back, looks like you're back in true elitist partisan trolling form for the elections!

I don't think he was meaning for the Democratic primary. Look at our past presidents:
Bush - Texan, social conservative
Clinton - southerner
Bush - social conservative
Reagan - social conservative
Carter - southerner
Ford - hiccup, unelected
Nixon - social conservative
Johnson - Texan
Kennedy - it ends here.. northern liberal

So the only exception to southerners are social conservatives who appeal to southerners. Mondale, McGovern, Dukakis, Kerry, didn't fit this mold and failed. The only exception is the charismatic Kennedy, so you have to be a very good politician to get over this hump and Obama has proven himself that so he's got a real shot at breaking this streak.
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
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Did you know Kerry Lost Ohio by 1 vote per precinct in 2004?

No, I didn't-- which is very strange as I live in Ohio and have never heard that.

Hmmm.. why haven't I heard this before? Oh, wait-- I know! It's because it's not true.

Kerry lost to Bush by 108,000 votes in Ohio. There were 11,366 voting precints in Ohio in 2004. Hence, Kerry lost by about 10 votes per precints, not 1.

That article is only off by a factor 10-- not good, but not quite as bad as the New York Times.

:)
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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The 10 vote per precinct thing is similar to the "Bush only lost the popular vote in 2000 because of California" argument.

While it is certainly true it really isn't worth much other than for its trivial purposes.

For those who don't remember:
Gore won the popular vote by 450,000
Gore won California by 1.3 million votes, therefore his entire popular victory came from one state.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The 10 vote per precinct thing is similar to the "Bush only lost the popular vote in 2000 because of California" argument.

While it is certainly true it really isn't worth much other than for its trivial purposes.

For those who don't remember:
Gore won the popular vote by 450,000
Gore won California by 1.3 million votes, therefore his entire popular victory came from one state.

California should just become our own nation, with President Gore. Of course, we'd have a terrible problem with illegal immigrants from the US.
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
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I looked up vote totals for Bush and Kerry and totals were 2.8 and 2.7 million votes, with margin of victory 108,000 as pointed out above.

If article is accurate that there are now 900,000 newly registered Democrats, seems like Obama should be in a good position, even if some of those voters are Hillary supporters who will defect. :confused:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...dential_election,_2004


edit: article says 900,000 advantage on voters rolls, not new voters. So I guess they are basically starting 50/50, with x factor being how much Hillary has eroded that base.
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
3,428
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Originally posted by: mshan
The article I linked in OP is very strange and shockingly sloppy.

I looked up vote totals for Bush and Kerry and totals were 2.8 and 2.7 million votes, with margin of victory 108,000 as pointed out above.

If article is accurate that there are now 900,000 newly registered Democrats, seems like Obama should be in a good position, even if some of those voters are Hillary supporters who will defect. :confused:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...dential_election,_2004

I'm not sure it accounts for any significant portion of that 900,000 , but Ohio was one of the states in which a lot of Republicans switched parties just to vote for Hillary (as part of Rush Limbaugh's "Operation Chaos").
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
Sounds like state really is a toss up with Hillary's supporters still as a big x factor.

I misread that statistic; 900,000 advantage on voter registration rolls, not new voters.

edit: was some temporary cross over registration allowed in Pennsylvania?

 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
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Yea you would Craig, you'd have to build a wall to stop people from leaving illegally.
In the period 1995?2000, 1,448,964 people moved into the state and 2,204,500 moved out, for a net loss of 755,536.
link
and
Based on data from moving companies, California had the second-highest domestic population out-flow of any state in 2005, according to the report, "despite the beautiful weather, beaches, and mountains."
link
and lastly
The U.S. Census Bureau, which bases its calculations on Internal Revenue Service data, estimated that between July 1, 2000, and July 1, 2006, 950,592 more people left California for other states than moved in from other states. Last year alone, 287,684 more people moved out than moved in.
link
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
30
86
Originally posted by: mshan

Topic Title: Did you know Kerry Lost Ohio by 10 (per OP's correction) vote per precinct in 2004?

Ummm... Can you say Diebold, boys and girls? :shocked:
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,910
238
106
I'm with Harvey. Stats should never be so uniform like that. Vote tampering is evident when looking into the total picture.
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
81
Originally posted by: MadRat
I'm with Harvey. Stats should never be so uniform like that. Vote tampering is evident when looking into the total picture.


Do you suspect Acorn?
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,910
238
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It's old water under the bridge. The important thing to do is prevent future appearances of impropriety.
 

Duwelon

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
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Apparently ACORN ran out of dead pets to register as democrats voting for Kerry.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Yea you would Craig, you'd have to build a wall to stop people from leaving illegally.
In the period 1995?2000, 1,448,964 people moved into the state and 2,204,500 moved out, for a net loss of 755,536.
link
and
Based on data from moving companies, California had the second-highest domestic population out-flow of any state in 2005, according to the report, "despite the beautiful weather, beaches, and mountains."
link
and lastly
The U.S. Census Bureau, which bases its calculations on Internal Revenue Service data, estimated that between July 1, 2000, and July 1, 2006, 950,592 more people left California for other states than moved in from other states. Last year alone, 287,684 more people moved out than moved in.
link

LOL..........

California shall rise again! :laugh:
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
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With winner take all EC...a 50 state strategy will ruin a campaign.
I would love to see EC split within a state like Nebraska and Maine.
This way every state plays a role in electing the president...not just states where the popular vote is close.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
Stunt, decent idea but it would still make a few very populous states the focus of the campaign and leave half of the country out.

The top 10 states hold half of the countries people.
The top 15 cities alone hold around 100 million people or a third of our population.

Candidates would focus nearly all of their attention on those states and cities and practically ignore the rest of the country.