Did the US Cave In To Terrorism When...

MonstaThrilla

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2000
1,652
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We Pulled Out of Saudi Arabia?

In January 2002, White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card told CNN that Saudi officials had asked the United States to reduce its military presence there. "I think it's in the long-term interest of both countries," Card said.

Exiled Saudi Osama bin Laden has cited the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia as a core grievance in his self-proclaimed holy war against the United States. Fifteen of the 19 September 11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, according to the U.S. government.


Answer: Of course not. So all the hardliners should calm down when criticizing Spain for deciding (by the ballot box no less) that it would try to avoid the mass murder of its people in the way its elected leaders see fit.
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
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Of course it's utter ridicolous that Spain's attacks had anything to do with Politics. Terrorists hate socialists, fascists, democrats, republicans, liberals and conservatives equally. But that doesn't mean the nuts here will find a way to politicalize terror since they obviously dont understand or won't understand terrorists.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
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The reason some people are so pissed is because they are afraid that Americans will follow suit and kick Georges dumb ass out too :D
 

DoubleL

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2001
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The reason some people are so pissed is because they are afraid that Americans will follow suit and kick Georges dumb ass out too

Don't think so and it want be cause we will give in to terrorism, Well most of us anyway,
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
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The U.S. has been moving a large number of operations to Qatar. I don't think it was in response to terrorism. Qatar was a more welcoming and easier to work with country.
 
Dec 27, 2001
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Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Of course it's utter ridicolous that Spain's attacks had anything to do with Politics. Terrorists hate socialists, fascists, democrats, republicans, liberals and conservatives equally. But that doesn't mean the nuts here will find a way to politicalize terror since they obviously dont understand or won't understand terrorists.

Actually, inciteful one, I heard last night on the news that Al Qaeda briefly had a website last December which listed their objectives...one of them being political change in Spain to get their troops out of Iraq. Doh.
 
May 10, 2001
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they acheaved their goal with the atack:

Did the US Cave In To Terrorism When We Pulled Out of Saudi Arabia?
we let them have their way: so yes. but not to worry, it's just so that we can 'strategically' re-enter.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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Originally posted by: rudder
The U.S. has been moving a large number of operations to Qatar. I don't think it was in response to terrorism. Qatar was a more welcoming and easier to work with country.

Probably more along the lines of distancing ourselves from the corruption of the Saudi royal family.
 

Zephyr106

Banned
Jul 2, 2003
1,309
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Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: rudder
The U.S. has been moving a large number of operations to Qatar. I don't think it was in response to terrorism. Qatar was a more welcoming and easier to work with country.

Probably more along the lines of distancing ourselves from the corruption of the Saudi royal family.

You can't hide from the fact that Bin Laden listed as one of his major grievances the stationing of US soldiers in the Muslim holy land, Saudi Arabia. So removal of those soldiers serves to remove that grievance.

Zephyr
 
May 10, 2001
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Qatar was a more welcoming and easier to work with country.
actualy they think america is run by a bunch of rich-powerfull jews as well; we should be working with the people of Bahrain who love us in that german kindof way.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
2
76
April 2003?? that article was almost a year back. A lot has changed since then. You can't tie pulling out of Saudi Arabia to Spain or Osama. Why were we in Saudi Arabia? to protect it from Iraq. Why did we move a lot of planes from Saudi Arabia? because they wouldn't let us bomb Iraq from there. So we set up a base nearby that we could bomb Iraq. Kuwait was too close to their Scuds. Why are we pulling out of Saudi Arabia now? because Saddam is in jail and we don't need to protect Saudi Arabia, we got Iraq's oil now!
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: rudder
The U.S. has been moving a large number of operations to Qatar. I don't think it was in response to terrorism. Qatar was a more welcoming and easier to work with country.

Probably more along the lines of distancing ourselves from the corruption of the Saudi royal family.

You can't hide from the fact that Bin Laden listed as one of his major grievances the stationing of US soldiers in the Muslim holy land, Saudi Arabia. So removal of those soldiers serves to remove that grievance.

Zephyr

The price of oil has gone up since then. Seems our pulling out caused oil prices to rise.

The national deficit has soared recently since we pulled out of Saudi Arabia. Seems our pulling out cause the deficit to rise.


There is no causal link. If there were, though, it would make Bush to be a complete and utter hypocrite as he would have given in to Osama while claiming to never give in to terrorism. Perhaps Bush is adept at speaking out of both sides of his mouth then?
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
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Fight Back and Vote
This is an Editorial from the Washington Post.
It address the problem with Politics
(and Bush just simply dosen't get it)
==========================================
The exact motives and identity of the terrorists who took at least 200 lives in Madrid have not yet been established. But the calculations of these killers are written in the blood that was shed in the Spanish capital's train stations.

There can be little doubt that the bombers had Spain's national elections in mind when they chose the timing of their atrocity. Madrid's 3/11 is a threat directed not only at Spain's admirable, hard-won democracy but also at all other free societies that dare to hold elections and let citizens choose.

That threat cannot be ignored in the United States over the next eight months. The Bush and Kerry campaigns, the politicians running for other national offices and U.S. voters must adapt to the likelihood that terrorists will use violence to disrupt or influence national elections here this autumn.

Any lingering belief that "it can't happen again here" also died in Madrid. Protecting the democratic process from disruption is now a specific and major duty on the agenda of fighting terrorism.

It matters greatly whether this revolting crime was carried out by the Basque separatists of ETA, the medieval obscurants of al Qaeda or, as now seems most likely, a North African offshoot of Osama bin Laden's brand of Islamic fanaticism. It matters above all because tailoring a strategy to defeat the terrorists requires knowing the nature and intentions of your enemy.

But the juxtaposition of Thursday's bombings, the suspicious claim of responsibility by al Qaeda and the defeat inflicted Sunday on Jose Maria Aznar's government forms its own narrative, however superficial or misleading. Terrorists have tampered with an election and brought down a government. They have punished Spain as a nation for participating in the war in Iraq. They have pushed their concerns and causes to the center of a democracy -- which will be seen by the unthinking to have recoiled in fear.

The Spanish story is more complex than that. The perpetrators cannot have predicted with any accuracy the political outcome of their crime. Other factors certainly played a part in the conservatives' downfall. But as Iran's ayatollahs showed in manipulating the hostage drama in 1980 to help bring Ronald Reagan to power, the specific outcome is less important than the action of influencing it. In looking toward the Nov. 2 general election, Americans need to construct a defense against the terrorists' narrative as well as against airline hijackings or train bombings. The Madrid attacks show that modern societies are vulnerable politically as well as physically. Here are a few starting points for hardening the nation's politics as well as its reactors and ports against assault:

? Civil defense exercises for responding to terrorist attacks cannot be postponed until after the elections as a way of avoiding criticism or controversy about political manipulation of the terrorist threat. The Spanish atrocity demonstrates the need for citizens to be informed in advance -- to be prepared, in fact, to confront and cope with disaster at home and quickly move to voting as scheduled.

? A national consensus on the importance of holding elections as scheduled -- even in the face of an event such as Sept. 11, 2001 -- should be formed now. The rule of law rather than the circumstantial judgment of leaders provides the essential stability of the American system.

? The two major parties need to come together to establish a bipartisan framework for minimizing the force of terrorist incidents aimed at influencing elections. A joint declaration on national unity in the face of terrorism by the party chairmen is one way of addressing that need.

The war on terrorism is a legitimate, even unavoidable, issue for both Democrats and Republicans. So is the balance of civil liberties and police power here and in other countries that are targeted, as the Paris daily Le Monde put it Monday, by killers "who attack democratic societies because of what they are: open, flexible, respectful of the rule of law." For the perpetrators, "the only measure of success is killing as many people as possible."

But the campaign organizations cannot evade their larger responsibilities in an election campaign that could in all likelihood be a target itself. George W. Bush and John F. Kerry have an obligation not to remain mired at the petty and tactical level to which their opening exchanges sank this month. Kerry dealt seriously and in detail with his view of homeland security in a speech to firefighters in Washington yesterday, but his remarks still reflected a disturbing raw partisanship.

Kerry and Bush must set the example for their aides -- and for their compatriots -- of being able to disagree on policies while projecting a sense of national unity and purpose that will not be held hostage by killers.
 

josphII

Banned
Nov 24, 2001
1,490
0
0
Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla
We Pulled Out of Saudi Arabia?

In January 2002, White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card told CNN that Saudi officials had asked the United States to reduce its military presence there. "I think it's in the long-term interest of both countries," Card said.

Exiled Saudi Osama bin Laden has cited the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia as a core grievance in his self-proclaimed holy war against the United States. Fifteen of the 19 September 11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, according to the U.S. government.


Answer: Of course not. So all the hardliners should calm down when criticizing Spain for deciding (by the ballot box no less) that it would try to avoid the mass murder of its people in the way its elected leaders see fit.

apples and oranges. the united states relationship with saudi arabia is a complicated one. they are supposedly allies, however, there is a lot of political pressure to cut off that relationship. you could just as easily say that the reduction of forces sends a message that we are distancing our selves from the saudi regime, which many believe, indirectly or directly, has ties to terrorism.

as for spain, the anti-war anti-american communist candidate was trailing in the polls prior to the attack. the terrorist attack gave him the election and is getting spains troops out of iraq. clearly a victory for the terrorists.

the american people have a choice in the upcomming election - do you want a person who stands up to terrorists and fights for whats right or do you want a candidate who believes in appeasment of terrorists and is two-faced and weak in the face of danger?
 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
8,324
2
0
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: rudder
The U.S. has been moving a large number of operations to Qatar. I don't think it was in response to terrorism. Qatar was a more welcoming and easier to work with country.

Probably more along the lines of distancing ourselves from the corruption of the Saudi royal family.

You can't hide from the fact that Bin Laden listed as one of his major grievances the stationing of US soldiers in the Muslim holy land, Saudi Arabia. So removal of those soldiers serves to remove that grievance.

Zephyr

One of the ironic things is that the 2nd Iraq war made this possible. From what I understand, the main reason we had troops in Saudi Arabia was to be a deterrent to Saddam Huissein. Now that he's gone, we could move our soldiers out of there.

 

myusername

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2003
5,046
0
0
Originally posted by: josphII

the american people have a choice in the upcomming election - do you want a person who stands up to terrorists and fights for whats right or do you want a candidate who believes obfuscating his own role in the 9/11, ignores the actual source of the terrorist threat, and attacks an unrelated nation - against international sentiment - by lying to congress and to the public?

Heh. Fixed it for you.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: rudder
The U.S. has been moving a large number of operations to Qatar. I don't think it was in response to terrorism. Qatar was a more welcoming and easier to work with country.

Didn't those bastards give $1000s to suicide bomber's families? ;)