Did the "change of culture" actually make a difference here?

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JulesMaximus

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,586
986
126
Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer
Wait Wait!!! I remember that one!! It was the ATOT episode of "When Mods Attack"!!
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I liked the episode of "Spring Break-Mods Gone Wild" ;)
 
yllus

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: LoKe
Originally posted by: yllus
...and to for once and for all time spell out a list of rules to be pinned in OT and all other forums.
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I don't think that would work out for a place like ATOT. Mainly because the moderators act on their own opinions. While it would be nice to know what is and isn't acceptable, I find that if you have to think about it, then it probably isn't. Adding rules would only limit the moderators and put things in the gray area. Considering the small number of moderators, it's easier for them to work as a team when they have their own rules to make and bend at will, without anything being set in stone.

Frankly, this would go completely out the window if the expanded the team, because then things would be a mess and we would need a list of rules.
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What you're saying makes sense if you ignore the basics of human behaviour.

A discrete list of rules works both ways, which is the intention. It compels the membership to act one way, and compels the moderators to enforce those rules without make special allowances. You can absolutely have a short list of rules to follow and not do away with common sense and the room to maneuver that requires.

It's pretty clear that the moderators get buried under the workload here as it is, so the need for more is an absolute requirement anyways - if the place isn't better off stagnating (fiscally this might be sensible). A list of rules that tells member and moderator alike how to act makes enormous sense.
 
mugs

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: Platypus
Originally posted by: dirtboy
The change only happened because a high posting woman complained to her now husband moderator about how it was here, so to make her happy she is now a mod who is trying to make a place that started as a male centric forum into one that is female friendly.

It hasn't worked other than to see the mods make fools out of themselves.

There are plenty of forums... I say let this one be what it is and just worry about moderating the people that really need it.

Now we're not a blog, but I'm sure if you looked at the basis of most posts, they are somewhat blog in nature.

This shouldn't come to anyone as a suprise. When you get a bunch of old cronies together to moderate a youthful forum, you get this.

Of course the hypocracy of the moderating staff is a whole seperate issue...
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oh snap
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Oh no he didn't!

(Is there an emoticon that indicates that the previous line was said like a black woman?)
 
moshquerade

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: Platypus
Originally posted by: dirtboy
The change only happened because a high posting woman complained to her now husband moderator about how it was here, so to make her happy she is now a mod who is trying to make a place that started as a male centric forum into one that is female friendly.

It hasn't worked other than to see the mods make fools out of themselves.

There are plenty of forums... I say let this one be what it is and just worry about moderating the people that really need it.

Now we're not a blog, but I'm sure if you looked at the basis of most posts, they are somewhat blog in nature.

This shouldn't come to anyone as a suprise. When you get a bunch of old cronies together to moderate a youthful forum, you get this.

Of course the hypocracy of the moderating staff is a whole seperate issue...
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oh snap
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Oh no he didn't!

(Is there an emoticon that indicates that the previous line was said like a black woman?)
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You could change your avatar to indictate it.
 
pontifex

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
lots of good posts here, especially dirtboy's. too bad they'll all be ignored or he'll be banned
 
Perknose

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,892
10,713
147
Originally posted by: dirtboy
The change only happened because a high posting woman complained to her now husband moderator about how it was here, so to make her happy she is now a mod who is trying to make a place that started as a male centric forum into one that is female friendly.
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Originally posted by: yllus
dirtboy is quite accurate in recounting why the "change of culture" was initiated, but that's not to say that things weren't in need of a change.
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Damn, yllus, you, of all people, should be more clued in to the actual facts than that. Really.

The forums have evolved from a tight knit, almost exclusively male, generally more mature and definitely more knowledgable band of hard core computer enthusiasts who could generally take care of themselves without running and crying to anyone into a far different, far less mature, far less homogenous noobopolis.

It's gonna' sound laugh out loud ironic to many coming from me, but I can well understand the lure of TFNN. It's smaller and smarter.

The old AT was Palo Alto, the current one is NYC, a city of strangers in which small groups of good friends try to preserve what community they can. It's very size works against it in some ways.

Still, I like AT like I like NYC -- you can find almost anything you're looking for in either place, at almost any time of the day or night. Size matters in positive ways as well. Just ask Ron Jeremy or yours truly. ;)

What I can't understand is the near constant whining and bleating of those who stay here, yet seem so desperately unhappy. Shift happens, and there is NO constant but change. People need to take responsibility for their own personal needs and move on and seek something more to their liking if their not being met.

It's why so very few of us have clung to the Atari deskstop solution, even though it was once briefly the techological shiznit. Tu as compris?

 
RossMAN

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
79,056
446
136
Originally posted by: yllus
dirtboy is quite accurate in recounting why the "change of culture" was initiated, but that's not to say that things weren't in need of a change.

The biggest problem with these forums is that the moderators are all old timers, and the non-moderator old timers have pretty much all left. Human nature generally leads us to at least initially dislike aggressive newcomers, so we see a lot of people who pull the same stunts as people years past did get banned. It is hypocrisy, but somewhat understandable. You're asking the moderators to not act human.

Would be nice to get a sizeable batch of new moderators added, and to for once and for all time spell out a list of rules to be pinned in OT and all other forums. I agree that people should simply act out of common sense, but that's not quite a fair statement when you have some old members basically trolling and getting away with it - displaying an example of behaviour that a newcomer would expect to get away with him/herself. With a discrete list of rules, they can override that impression and go by the rulebook instead.
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ZOMG you know who the Mods are? ;)
 
yllus

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Okay, "quite accurate" is itself not quite accurate, but there was a underlying connection there where the need for change was highlighted by a select number of individuals feeling affronted.

I don't get the lure of TFNN, nor your statement that it's smarter. It's worse than AT in nearly every aspect I can think of. 99% noise to 1% signal ain't my thing, and is definitely worse than AT's. Still love AT myself, would hate to get banned here - and would probably just reregister if I did for the times that I could use the knowledge that a userbase this size can impart. The moderators do a damn fine job here, but it's sort of silly that there's no list of rules posted. Is "in before the lock" still a bannable offense? Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Quote trees? Et cetera, et cetera. It really should be written down, even if (aside from those side things) the only thing written is, "Treat others as you yourself would wish to be treated - or go on vacation."

And Perk, post a thread of your own from time to time, will ya? Smart neffing has become something of a lost art. :(
 
JulesMaximus

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,586
986
126
Originally posted by: pontifex
lots of good posts here, especially dirtboy's. too bad they'll all be ignored or he'll be banned
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Yeah, I can see a few vacations coming from this thread. :laugh:
 
I

imported_LoKe

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
19,723
1
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: pontifex
lots of good posts here, especially dirtboy's. too bad they'll all be ignored or he'll be banned
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Yeah, I can see a few vacations coming from this thread. :laugh:
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Or a couple deleted posts. Hey wait, that already happened! :shifteyes;
 
DrPizza

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
167
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Fausto
Yes, people left and the forums got really, really boring.
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but then some came back. :D
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I didn't notice anyone missing... but, I did notice it got a little more civil in OT for a while. I don't recall any specific people who are generally respectful receiving a vacation. And, I wouldn't miss most of the people who are disrespectful (except for their entertainment value.) There are a couple of people I enjoy reading the posts of who are a little... blunt at times.

I'd love to see a "change of culture" cleaning house thread about every 3 months :) :p
The last one was great reading.
 
pontifex

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: pontifex
lots of good posts here, especially dirtboy's. too bad they'll all be ignored or he'll be banned
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Yeah, I can see a few vacations coming from this thread. :laugh:
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why would that be grounds for a vacation?
 
AreaCode707

AreaCode707

Lifer
Sep 21, 2001
18,447
133
106
Originally posted by: Captante
It had both good & bad effect IMO ... The good was that some of the worst flaming & personal attacks went away (or at least were minimized to a degree), the bad was that some older members either left on their own or chose not to return after the knee-jerk bans that were handed out expired.
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Agreed. Although, considering that the membership at AT cannot agree on something as simple as how to make orange juice, I doubt they could agree on a moderator style, no matter what the mods did.
 
oogabooga

oogabooga

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2003
7,806
3
81
people left, but people can still be rude and you still have trolls who politely state flamatory comments/opinions.
 
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