Did Sony catch Microsoft by surprise with their system specs?

futurefields

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2012
6,470
32
91
If Microsoft had known during the design phase what Sony was going to put into the PS4 would they have changed anything about the system specs?

Did Sony catch Microsoft by surprise with this one? (GPU and GDDR5 primarily)
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
I'm sure they did, just like I'm sure Microsoft was surprised that Sony undercut them on price as well as them not bundling the PS Eye was a last minute decision. It definitely worked out well for them so far.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,501
12
0
I'm sure they did, just like I'm sure Microsoft was surprised that Sony undercut them on price as well as them not bundling the PS Eye was a last minute decision. It definitely worked out well for them so far.

Don't forget the whole DRM thing. I think Microsoft was really expecting to Sony restrict used games as well. While the Xbone seems to be doing okay now, it really was one of the worst product unveilings since the Sega Saturn. It's no wonder they're giving Ballmer the bum's rush. His forte has always been B2B. Micorosft doesn't know how to deal with consumers. That's quite evident by the flops they've had in the past year with Windows 8, Windows phone, and surface. Three huge products that consumers don't bat an eye at.

Sony has a lot more to lose though. They lost a lot of their consumer electronics markets share to LG, Samsung, and Apple. SCE is really the only hardware division left that still carries some weight.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I think Sony saw what MS going to do and the outrage etc. So they altered some of their ideas to fit into what would please people the most. Easy development and publishing, focus on games with media being secondary but still part of the system's experience, keep the model for disk based games the same as it has been for now, and working more closely with the industry to make sure that they have a system that will be good for both the developers and the consumers.

I really think that If things were the other way around and people were outraged at Sony's policies, that MS would take advantage of this by saying "this is how we plan to do things, we have a different idea." Maybe I'm giving them too much credit, but I do think this way. We may never know what Sony's plans were but I think their focus during their reveal and their E3 conference stressed the importance of consumer rights and a focus on gaming etc was a direct result of the negativity surround the XB1 until certain policies were changed.
 

futurefields

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2012
6,470
32
91
Talking strictly about system specs here, not the DRM. Did Sony catch Microsoft off guard with their more powerful GPU and GDDR5 memory system? Surely Microsoft wouldn't have been content to product the obviously less powerful system if they could have done something about it. Or maybe Microsoft did know, but decided they would let Sony have the more powerful console? That seems unlikely too me.
 

iluvdeal

Golden Member
Nov 22, 1999
1,975
0
76
Higher specs should mean higher price but that's not the case here. Maybe Microsoft just chose to balance their budget for the system towards another aspect of the system (Kinect sensor) rather than the cpu/gpu/ram? As the Wii showed, you don't have to have the best specs to sell the most consoles.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Higher specs should mean higher price but that's not the case here. Maybe Microsoft just chose to balance their budget for the system towards another aspect of the system (Kinect sensor) rather than the cpu/gpu/ram? As the Wii showed, you don't have to have the best specs to sell the most consoles.

That's a fair point, however higher specs definitely give one a leg up on multiplatform sales.

Look at attachment rate amongst PS3/360/Wii. 360 usually had the best multiplatform variants, and had dramatically higher sales than the Wii for titles available on both. That was also true of 360 vs. PS3, though not quite as extreme.

IOW, tons of people who had 360s also had Wiis, but when they went to buy a game that was available on both, they usually chose the 360 version. That and tons of Wiis were sold to people who only played Wii fitness, and tons of PS3s were sold to people who just used it as a Bluray and/or home theatre device.

This time around, PS4 will have the advantage in multiplatform games (by a little to a lot depending on the competence of the devs, but it should be absolute child's play turning the AA/view distance/resolution up on the PS4 releases). Those that end up with both XB1 and PS4 will be more likely to buy the PS4 version of multiplatform releases.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,531
7,858
136
Talking strictly about system specs here, not the DRM. Did Sony catch Microsoft off guard with their more powerful GPU and GDDR5 memory system? Surely Microsoft wouldn't have been content to product the obviously less powerful system if they could have done something about it. Or maybe Microsoft did know, but decided they would let Sony have the more powerful console? That seems unlikely too me.

I recall reading somewhere about MS deciding from the start that they wanted 8 GB of RAM in the system, but decided against using GDDR5 because the price was (at the time) too high to make it work, hence using 32 MB of eSRAM to make up for the memory bandwidth deficit. As for the weaker GPU, I'm guessing it is likely due to a combination of cost reduction (bundling in the Kinect leaves less room/$$$ for the console itself) and how MS wanted to market their console, i.e. home entertainment box first, gaming box second => less need for a powerful GPU.

As for Sony, I recall they originally specced the PS4 with 4 GB of GDDR5, chosen because it is a hassle-free means of providing the GPU enough bandwidth. As for the reason behind why the PS4 now has 8 GB of GDDR5, it was because the prices for GDDR5 had come down faster than they anticipated, so they upped it to 8 GB. Sort of a ballsy move from Sony that ended up paying off in the end. As for the GPU, I'm guessing the specs were locked in from the get-go, and was posed to be faster than the XBO's due to the PS4 being positioned first and foremost as a gaming device.

Source 1: Developers were originally told the PS4 would feature 4 GB of RAM; were pleasantly surprised when Sony upped it to 8 GB.
Source 2: Suggestions from devs were made to up RAM to 8 GB; proposal sent to Sony brass; brass rubs chin; brass green-lights.
 
Last edited:

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,274
202
106
I recall reading somewhere about MS deciding from the start that they wanted 8 GB of RAM in the system, but decided against using GDDR5 because the price was (at the time) too high to make it work, hence using 32 MB of eSRAM to make up for the memory bandwidth deficit. As for the weaker GPU, I'm guessing it is likely due to a combination of cost reduction (bundling in the Kinect leaves less room/$$$ for the console itself) and how MS wanted to market their console, i.e. home entertainment box first, gaming box second => less need for a powerful GPU.

As for Sony, I recall they originally specced the PS4 with 4 GB of GDDR5, chosen because it is a hassle-free means of providing the GPU enough bandwidth. As for the reason behind why the PS4 now has 8 GB of GDDR5, it was because the prices for GDDR5 had come down faster than they anticipated, so they upped it to 8 GB. Sort of a ballsy move from Sony that ended up paying off in the end.

I think it also avoids the PS4 being the redheaded step child when it comes to multi platform game development. If the PS4 has only 4GB of RAM while the XBone has 8, it makes the life of a multi platform game developer a little more difficult. In the previous generation, the PS3 was difficult to develop for thanks to its limited memory pool and difficult to program for Cell, and I think Sony wanted to avoid that.

Now, it is equal to, or better than, the XBO in every hardware metric that matters.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Talking strictly about system specs here, not the DRM. Did Sony catch Microsoft off guard with their more powerful GPU and GDDR5 memory system? Surely Microsoft wouldn't have been content to product the obviously less powerful system if they could have done something about it. Or maybe Microsoft did know, but decided they would let Sony have the more powerful console? That seems unlikely too me.

I think pricing wise, Sony surprised a lot of people MS included. I don't think MS used ddr3 for any reason other than cost savings.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
146
106
www.neftastic.com
I personally don't think Microsoft is surprised with anything Sony does hardware-wise. Sony has a history of overpromising on their hardware, much like IBM, and then taking forever to leverage that hardware in some meaningful way.

I'm pretty sure Microsoft was expecting another Cell-style fiasco, especially considering they knew that Sony was moving yet again from one architecture platform to another, and it would mean new development tools and another learning curve to throw at developers slowing development and optimization of titles coming out the door. I'm pretty sure where Microsoft shot themselves in the foot in this assumption was that Sony learned from their previous mistakes and designed both the console AND the development platform (SDK) directly with the primary developers, making this console pretty much exactly what the devs wanted right from the get go. I'm pretty sure that this is what caught Microsoft off guard, that they might now be the console that's "ported to", rather than the one that's "ported from".
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
As for Sony, I recall they originally specced the PS4 with 4 GB of GDDR5, chosen because it is a hassle-free means of providing the GPU enough bandwidth. As for the reason behind why the PS4 now has 8 GB of GDDR5, it was because the prices for GDDR5 had come down faster than they anticipated, so they upped it to 8 GB.

I remember this as well. If anything, that's the big surprise on the hardware angle, and maybe the price. Though IIRC there were rumors about the memory change prior to the announcement as well. Probably far too late for them to react to the news however. Would have been interesting if MS had decided to go to 12GB DDR3 or something, or 64-128mb esram.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
I don't think Microsoft had a guard.

Microsoft ought to just abandon the XBone and free up their second parties.

While the Xbone seems to be doing okay now, it really was one of the worst product unveilings since the Sega Saturn.
In what way? The Sega Saturn was much closer price wise to its competition than the
Xbone is to the PS4 and at least it battled the PS1 to a draw hardware wise (better audio subsystem, more VRAM, a dedicated controller for the CDROM drive, better 2D capabilities, unique 3D capabilities, and virtually zero defect rate).

Now I wouldn't say the Sega Saturn had a good American launch as the only games available on 5/11/95 were Sega's own games as well as the high price tag and some retailers left out but it was better than the Xbone.

The Sega Saturn also had a little bit of an excuse since American management didn't agree with the Japanese management.
 

bolinder

Member
Aug 31, 2013
77
2
71
... and tons of PS3s were sold to people who just used it as a Bluray and/or home theatre device.

That statement fits me and my family. We have the Wii and the PS3 (along with PS1 and 2, old NES, etc.). The PS3 is almost strictly a bluray player, even though we have games on it. True, I am not likely a "core" gamer, but I really like the XBox One home theatre idea, and I am in the income class that doesn't have to choose just one system. Each has strengths. I have wanted an XBox forever, but kept waiting for the "next one." I am thinking birthday present this year.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Question for everyone. Maybe you saw info I missed...

WIll the PS4 and XB1 bitstream DTS-HD MA and TrueHD audio from Blu-Ray movies? Will they support 3D output to appropriate TVs in movies? I know the unboxing mentioned the XB1 has a "4k capable" HDMI cable.

Just curious. Might replace my current Player if these criteria are met.
 

dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
2,591
0
71
If Microsoft had known during the design phase what Sony was going to put into the PS4 would they have changed anything about the system specs?

Did Sony catch Microsoft by surprise with this one? (GPU and GDDR5 primarily)

GPU, no. RAM, maybe. But to be clear, the most powerful console hasn't "won" a generation since the SNES 20 years ago. It is always, always, always about games. Only games. Nothing else but games. Games games games. Period.

Both the Xbox One and PS4 start at game parity for the most part (there aren't any major 3rd party exclusives like during the PS2/Xbox Classic era) so the only factors left are price, network effect, and system experience.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
WIll the PS4 and XB1 bitstream DTS-HD MA and TrueHD audio from Blu-Ray movies? Will they support 3D output to appropriate TVs in movies? I know the unboxing mentioned the XB1 has a "4k capable" HDMI cable.

I sure as hell hope they both do since the PS3 already does both (bitstreaming and 3D) today! :p
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I sure as hell hope they both do since the PS3 already does both (bitstreaming and 3D) today! :p

Yeah...but they don't mention it. Maybe someone on like AVSforum or HighDefDigest will do a direct side by side comparison of the Blu-Ray Playback quality and features after release. I can decide if they are worth using for that purpose and which one is better at it.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,038
5,920
126
yeah i'm assuming/hoping that they do that as well, so that i can free up another slot on my receiver and get rid of my current bluray player.
 

nextJin

Golden Member
Apr 16, 2009
1,848
0
0
I don't believe so, the added eSRAM is something they are used to and probably did because of cost reasons. They had to meet a price point with the Kinect 2.0 and had to make some sacrifices. They probably went with it because it was in the same ballpark, they knew what AMD's capabilities are and the PS4 version of their chip is propbably the best they could do at the time.

It's not like they gave up gaming, they just put it in the same ballpark while adding alot more fluff. We have yet to see the throuhoutput of the eSRAM when done right and Cerny even said upwards of 1000MBs. Sony just didn't go that route because it overly complicated things.

Seeing 1st party titles from each respective company should give a good indication if it was the right move in about 2-3 years.
 

Railgun

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2010
1,289
2
81
I sure as hell hope they both do since the PS3 already does both (bitstreaming and 3D) today! :p

Yeah, but not both simultaneously. But keep in mind when the PS3 came out...

It was more than likely a resource limitation for the above. There's zero reason the new consoles won't.
 

Mushkins

Golden Member
Feb 11, 2013
1,631
0
0
Yeah...but they don't mention it. Maybe someone on like AVSforum or HighDefDigest will do a direct side by side comparison of the Blu-Ray Playback quality and features after release. I can decide if they are worth using for that purpose and which one is better at it.

I'm curious about this stuff too, but for all the "the only home entertainment device you'll ever need!" marketing they both have not released any official information on local video/audio playback specs. I doubt we'll see anything until the hardware user manuals get leaked before launch.

Frankly, I want to know if the PS4 can finally natively play MKV files, let me freely switch audio tracks, and support subtitles. It's pretty much the only thing holding me back from buying an Intel NUC to use as an HTPC at this point. If it can't play the majority of the content on my media server without clunky transcoding, it's of little use to me as a media device.
 

Staples

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2001
4,953
119
106
Yep.

But the biggest surprise was NO DRM.

And no DRM was such a big threat that MS did a 180 on EVERYTHING.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
But the biggest surprise was NO DRM.

I'll agree with that.

I don't see how they could have not expected the PS4 to have superior graphics considering how weak the Xbox One is. Last generation the 360 was close to a high end graphics card, while this generation Xbox is comparable to a low end graphics card. The Xbone won't even be able to run a simple fighting game like Killer Instinct at 1080.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Wii sold mostly because it was a new fad. To most it was the latest novel "white i device" conversation piece and trendy fashion accessory sitting on the coffee table.

I've been to enough people's houses with a dusty Wii sitting there who have never bought any game beyond the pack in or equally repulsive launch title or two.

No free ride this time around.
 
Last edited: