Did Saddam Gas the Kurds?

MAW1082

Senior member
Jun 17, 2003
510
7
81
Here it is kids, straight from the horses mouth:

Saddam Could Call CIA in His Defense

Saddam Could Call CIA in his Defense

by Sanjay Suri

London, Jul 2 (IPS) - Evidence offered by a top CIA man could confirm the testimony given by Saddam Hussein at the opening of his trial in Baghdad Thursday that he knew of the Halabja massacre only from the newspapers.



Thousands were reported killed in the gassing of Iraqi Kurds in Halabja in the north of Iraq in March 1988 towards the end of Iraq's eight-year war with Iran. The gassing of the Kurds has long been held to be the work of Ali Hassan al-Majid, named in the West because of that association as 'Chemical Ali'. Saddam Hussein is widely alleged to have ordered Ali to carry out the chemical attack.



The Halabja massacre is now prominent among the charges read out against Saddam in the Baghdad court. When that charge was read out, Saddam replied that he had read about the massacre in a newspaper. Saddam has denied these allegations ever since they were made. But now with a trial on, he could summon a witness in his defence with the potential to blow apart the charge and create one of the greatest diplomatic disasters the United States has ever known.



A report prepared by the top CIA official handling the matter says Saddam Hussein was not responsible for the massacre, and indicates that it was the work of Iranians. Further, the Scott inquiry on the role of the British government has gathered evidence that following the massacre the United States in fact armed Saddam Hussein to counter the Iranians chemicals for chemicals.



Few believe that a CIA man would attend a court hearing in Baghdad in defence of Saddam. But in this case the CIA boss has gone public with his evidence, and this evidence has been in the public domain for more than a year.



The CIA officer Stephen C. Pelletiere was the agency's senior political analyst on Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war. As professor at the Army War College from 1988 to 2000, he says he was privy to much of the classified material that flowed through Washington having to do with the Persian Gulf.



In addition, he says he headed a 1991 Army investigation into how the Iraqis would fight a war against the United States, and the classified version of the report went into great detail on the Halabja affair.



Pelletiere went public with his information on no less a platform than The New York Times in an article on January 31 last year titled 'A War Crime or an Act of War?' The article which challenged the case for war quoted U.S. President George W. Bush as saying: "The dictator who is assembling the world's most dangerous weapons has already used them on whole villages, leaving thousands of his own citizens dead, blind or disfigured."



Pelletiere says the United States Defence Intelligence Agency investigated and produced a classified report following the Halabja gassing, which it circulated within the intelligence community on a need- to-know basis. "That study asserted that it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds, not Iraqi gas," he wrote in The New York Times.



The agency did find that each side used gas against the other in the battle around Halabja, he said. "The condition of the dead Kurds' bodies, however, indicated they had been killed with a blood agent -- that is, a cyanide-based gas - which Iran was known to use. "The Iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time."



Pelletiere writes that these facts have "long been in the public domain but, extraordinarily, as often as the Halabja affair is cited, they are rarely mentioned."



Pelletiere wrote that Saddam Hussein has much to answer for in the area of human rights abuses. "But accusing him of gassing his own people at Halabja as an act of genocide is not correct, because as far as the information we have goes, all of the cases where gas was used involved battles. These were tragedies of war. There may be justifications for invading Iraq, but Halabja is not one of them."



Pelletiere has maintained his position. All Saddam would have to do in court now is to cite The New York Times article even if the court would not summon Pelletiere. The issues raised in the article would themselves be sufficient to raise serious questions about the charges filed against Saddam - and in turn the justifications offered last year for invading Iraq.



The Halabja killings were cited not just by Bush but by British Prime Minister Tony Blair to justify his case for going along with a U.S. invasion of Iraq. A British government dossier released to justify the war on Iraq says that "Saddam has used chemical weapons, not only against an enemy state, but against his own people." An inquiry report in 1996 by Lord Justice Scott in what came to be known as the arms-to-Iraq affair gave dramatic pointers to what followed after Halabja. After the use of poison gas in 1988 both the United States and Britain began to supply Saddam Hussein with even more chemical weapons.



The Scott inquiry had been set up in 1992 following the collapse of the trial in the case of Matrix Churchill, a British firm exporting equipment to Iraq that could be put to military use.



Three senior executives of Matrix Churchill said the government knew what Matrix Churchill was doing, and that its managing director Paul Henderson had been supplying information about Iraq to the British intelligence agencies on a regular basis.



The inquiry revealed details of the British government's secret decision to supply Saddam with even more weapons-related equipment after the Halabja killings.



Former British foreign secretary Geoffrey Howe was found to have written that the end of the Iraq-Iran war could mean "major opportunities for British industry" in military exports, but he wanted to keep that proposal quiet.



"It could look very cynical if so soon after expressing outrage about the treatment of the Kurds, we adopt a more flexible approach to arms sales," one of his officials told the Scott inquiry. Lord Scott condemned the government's decision to change its policy, while keeping MPs and the public in the dark.



Soon after the attack, the United States approved the export to Iraq of virus cultures and a billion-dollar contract to design and build a petrochemical plant the Iraqis planned to use to produce mustard gas.



Saddam Hussein has appeared so far without a lawyer to defend him. A Jordanian firm is reported to be speaking up for him. But the real defence for him could be waiting for him in Washington and London.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
I actually do remember reading something like this a couple years ago, that the iranians were the ones actually responsible.
 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
1,988
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Holy sh!t!

And the political bombs just keep on dropping.

So.... when are the gentlemen responsible for pushing this war going to be tried and convicted for the deaths and needless suffering they have caused, not to mention purposefully missleading and manipulating the court of public opinion to their will?

Answer me that.

This isn't in the same league as getting a blowjob by an intern. This is criminal negligence causing death.

How many years should those responsible get?

I say put em away for the rest of their lives in isolation without any chance of parole and don't let them off themselves.

Let them suffer. Every year they spend roting in jail is a tiny bit they give back to the population they cheated.

It should be a message that is very clear. If you break the law, even if you think it doesn't apply to you, you must be held accountable.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
I wonder if the whole process will be televised, without edit. Saddam could say some very damaging stuff about the Reagan/Bush years. I bet it will be delayed and edited for "security" reasons.
 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
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Originally posted by: Todd33
I wonder if the whole process will be televised, without edit. Saddam could say some very damaging stuff about the Reagan/Bush years. I bet it will be delayed and edited for "security" reasons.

The first few minutes he walked into the courtroom people who claimed to be in charge told news camera crews to unplug the audio cables from cameras and claimed that the Judge ordered it. Some complied and others faked it. The Judge later said he ordered no such thing and had no knowledge of talking to anyone about it.

There is no chance in Hell that Saddam will be allowed to demonize the "system" and I'm not just talking about the US administration but also that of the UK.

No chance in Hell.

Fairness isn't even going to enter into the equation of the trial. Information deemed crutial to Saddams defense will be stonewalled or deemed to be a nature of national security and not allowed to be read into court documents, which would then be public domain.

Not that this information isn't already public domain.

You think I'm full of sh!t and what I suggest a stretch? The Bush administration has done this exact same thing just past week and deemed, what was the previous week public domain, classified information crutial to national security. AKA crutial to save thy a$$.

This isn't some sort of political fantasy. It's happening right now.
 

abaez

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
7,155
1
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http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/war/docs/3203/

Appendix B, third paragraph, page 100:

Blood agents were allegedly responsible for the most infamous use of chemicals in the war?the killing of Kurds at Halabjah. Since the Iraqis have no history of using these two agents-and the Iranians do-we conclude that the Iranians perpetrated this attack. It is also worth noting that lethal concentrations of cyanogen are difficult to obtain over an area target, thus the reports of 5,000 Kurds dead in Halabjah are suspect.

Straight from our own military.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
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interesting development, I thought no one knew for sure if it was iraq or iran who did it, judging by what I read it seemed to be iran since the area was under saddam's rule at the time
 

MAW1082

Senior member
Jun 17, 2003
510
7
81
So after reading this article, one becomes even more suspicious of the US-led invasion.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
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0
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: Todd33
I wonder if the whole process will be televised, without edit. Saddam could say some very damaging stuff about the Reagan/Bush years. I bet it will be delayed and edited for "security" reasons.

The first few minutes he walked into the courtroom people who claimed to be in charge told news camera crews to unplug the audio cables from cameras and claimed that the Judge ordered it. Some complied and others faked it. The Judge later said he ordered no such thing and had no knowledge of talking to anyone about it.

There is no chance in Hell that Saddam will be allowed to demonize the "system" and I'm not just talking about the US administration but also that of the UK.

No chance in Hell.

Fairness isn't even going to enter into the equation of the trial. Information deemed crutial to Saddams defense will be stonewalled or deemed to be a nature of national security and not allowed to be read into court documents, which would then be public domain.

Not that this information isn't already public domain.

You think I'm full of sh!t and what I suggest a stretch? The Bush administration has done this exact same thing just past week and deemed, what was the previous week public domain, classified information crutial to national security. AKA crutial to save thy a$$.

This isn't some sort of political fantasy. It's happening right now.


I remember the "unplug your cameras" incident. I wondered at the time (and still do) why those guys had to lie...and it appears obvious that they did. If they (we) didn't want the cameras to be running for national security reasons, why wasn't the media simply told "Please turn your cameras off for national security reasons"? Why the 'judge's orders' lie?
 

MAW1082

Senior member
Jun 17, 2003
510
7
81
Bump! Bump! Bump!

Come on out of the shadows all you Bush supporters. What do you think about this?

How was the US-led invasion justified if Saddam wasn't even behind the gassing of the Kurds.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
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When will I see this story on CNN? I have a feeling this is another story along the lines of the recent 'nukes found in Iraq!'.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
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Just to be clear, the FAS.org article was written by Steven Pelletiere. That discredits it for me.

This manual was written by Dr. Stephen C. Pelletiere and LTC
Douglas V. Johnson II
 
Jul 26, 2004
70
0
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rediculous assertion.

The Kurds were running an uprising in the town of Halabja. Iran and Iraq were at war at the time.
Iran was happy to see Iraqi resources diverted away from the front.
That's why Hussein ordered the gassing, so that no troops needed to be pulled off the front lines.

Why not just say, Bush did it.

You guys are REALLY grasping at straws. :disgust:
 

InfectedMushroom

Golden Member
Aug 15, 2001
1,064
0
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Originally posted by: CADMaster
rediculous assertion.

The Kurds were running an uprising in the town of Halabja. Iran and Iraq were at war at the time.
Iran was happy to see Iraqi resources diverted away from the front.
That's why Hussein ordered the gassing, so that no troops needed to be pulled off the front lines.

Why not just say, Bush did it.

You guys are REALLY grasping at straws. :disgust:

Oh CAD, is that your new name? how cute.

it isn't us coming up with this. please pick a fight with the CIA. they are the ones that reached this conclusion.
 

TheBDB

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2002
3,176
0
0
Originally posted by: CADMaster
rediculous assertion.

The Kurds were running an uprising in the town of Halabja. Iran and Iraq were at war at the time.
Iran was happy to see Iraqi resources diverted away from the front.
That's why Hussein ordered the gassing, so that no troops needed to be pulled off the front lines.

Why not just say, Bush did it.

You guys are REALLY grasping at straws. :disgust:

Do you have any comment about how the Iraqi's didn't have the type of gas that supposedly killed the Kurds? Did you read the article?

I'm not saying I believe it, I'm just saying you need a better argument than ignoring the claims it makes.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
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Did you read the rebuttal to the article which was posted before the article? :D

Edit rebuttal, rebuttle who's got the rebuttel? :)
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Nothing but an attempt at revisionist history in order to encourage the US people to move on to the arms dealers (pardon me, CIA) next target of Iran.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
64
91
Originally posted by: CADMaster
rediculous assertion.

The Kurds were running an uprising in the town of Halabja. Iran and Iraq were at war at the time.
Iran was happy to see Iraqi resources diverted away from the front.
That's why Hussein ordered the gassing, so that no troops needed to be pulled off the front lines.

Why not just say, Bush did it.

You guys are REALLY grasping at straws. :disgust:

Iranians hate the Kurds just as much as Arab Iraqis. The Iranians had just as much to fear from a general Kurd uprising as the Iraqis, since there are tons of them in Iran, as well. The CIA had a very good idea of what types of chemical weapons the Iraqis used, considering American and British companies were the ones who supplied them with the equipment need for their manufacure.
 

Lazy8s

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2004
1,503
0
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did no one read the rebuttal post? LOL P&N should change the description to: "Leave all logic at the door and jusp to as many conclusions as possible."

I know that doesn;t apply to everyone but it applies to enough.