Did Reagan "win" the cold war?
- Thread starter Syringer
- Start date
as of the time of this post, this poll proves that 60% of those posting in this forum have absolutely no
knowledge of the Cold War era.
knowledge of the Cold War era.
libs do not need to know facts, those are only confusing things that cloud the issue, all they need to know is anything done by a republican is automatically bad, or if it cannot be made to look bad to look like anything good has nothing to do with a republican.
"Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall"- Ronald Reagan 1987
Fulll text of Brandenberg Gate speech
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
USSR fell under it's own weight like China is doing slower. But Reagan sure milked it for all it was worth, which was a lot of debt.
Question you must ask is why are they any less of a threat now than then? Answer is none.. they can still blow us and eveyone off the face of the earth but this time with LESS command and control. Today it takes just one man to make the decision vs. the central party. But he sure helped them build a few more for the 7 years he talked sh1t about them.
Question you must ask is why are they any less of a threat now than then? Answer is none.. they can still blow us and eveyone off the face of the earth but this time with LESS command and control. Today it takes just one man to make the decision vs. the central party. But he sure helped them build a few more for the 7 years he talked sh1t about them.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
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So are you saying authortarian police state communism is a lasting form a governement and w/o RR it would have gone on it's merry way? Never figured on you being a commi advocate but they arn't much differnet than fascists in practice so I'm not surprised.
i wish i knew how to do a poll about the vietnam war..
i asked a bunch of bright high schoolers "who promoted the Vietnam War"
every single one of them thought it was the Republicans!
The answer that was the closest to the truth was "it was under Lyndon Johnson that the Vietnam war really got big, and he was a Republican."
gotta love what the schools are teaching our kids!
the liberal mantra is "we care, we feel for you, we are anti-war" and conservatives are "mean, stupid and dumb"
i asked a bunch of bright high schoolers "who promoted the Vietnam War"
every single one of them thought it was the Republicans!
The answer that was the closest to the truth was "it was under Lyndon Johnson that the Vietnam war really got big, and he was a Republican."
gotta love what the schools are teaching our kids!
the liberal mantra is "we care, we feel for you, we are anti-war" and conservatives are "mean, stupid and dumb"
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
Dems love war as much as the next guy beholden to money for office..The elite does'nt care what party it is so long as it's selling arms and making a profit off the deal. WWII, Major parts of Cold war, Veitnam, kosovo, haiti all profitable both to dems in office and the war economy.
War is a racket..when will you folks learn.
Another read from yet another CMH winner.
War is a racket..when will you folks learn.
Another read from yet another CMH winner.
I give full credit to Ms. Cleo and people like her.
That speach was in 87 which is way into reagan's second term.
If you have read nancys book it reveals that SHE was running the show in the second term.
While running the show she heavily consulted "Ms. Cleo".
I dont think we give enough credit to Ms. Cleo and her kind... since they are the ones who a actually bringing world
peace
That speach was in 87 which is way into reagan's second term.
If you have read nancys book it reveals that SHE was running the show in the second term.
While running the show she heavily consulted "Ms. Cleo".
I dont think we give enough credit to Ms. Cleo and her kind... since they are the ones who a actually bringing world
peace
NesuD
Diamond Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 4,999
- 106
- 106
Originally posted by: outriding
I give full credit to Ms. Cleo and people like her.
That speach was in 87 which is way into reagan's second term.
If you have read nancys book it reveals that SHE was running the show in the second term.
While running the show she heavily consulted "Ms. Cleo".
I dont think we give enough credit to Ms. Cleo and her kind... since they are the ones who a actually bringing world
peace
Put on your boots the s#%t is getting deep around here.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: NesuD
Originally posted by: outriding
I give full credit to Ms. Cleo and people like her.
That speach was in 87 which is way into reagan's second term.
If you have read nancys book it reveals that SHE was running the show in the second term.
While running the show she heavily consulted "Ms. Cleo".
I dont think we give enough credit to Ms. Cleo and her kind... since they are the ones who a actually bringing world
peace
Put on your boots the s#%t is getting deep around here.
Don't mind him - he's be out - riding for a while...and hence is a tad out of touch with some realities
CkG
No thoughts, only feelings. My feeling was that Reagan could not self reflect because there was something the matter with his brain. His certainty and self confidence was all an artifact of a disease. He, like Bush, could, with enthusiasm, lead us all off a cliff.
<----- voted for Reagan in 1980, but not a revisionist either.
Perestroika is seen by many as instrumental in the Soviet economic collapse. While their economy wasn't growing, it certainly wasn't at crises stage when Gorbachev took over. The CIA began reporting on declining Soviet growth rates in the 1960s. Once Gorbi entered the equation, analysts at the CIA were able to further refine their estimates.
Some historians think that the decline in the Soviet economy actually began during the 1970s under Brezhnev. Brezhnev believed that capitalism was doomed to failure. In order to hasten this "failure", he therefore escalated the arms race and Soviet influence in the Third World.
The Reagan admin had a significant influence on the "end" of the Cold War through policy. However, to say that Reagan "won" the Cold War is somewhat misleading, in my opinion. There were a couple of defining actions on his part though:
P-II and Cruise Missile deployment: The 230 Pershing II missiles deployed to southern Germany in 1983-84 scared the living hell out of the Soviets. P-IIs, which could reach Moscow twenty minutes off the pad, definitely pushed the Soviets towards the INF. NATO originally approved the missile deployment in 1979. There were already approximately 160 P-Is in country in German and US hands prior to deployment. Incidentally, the warheads were under US control. In late 1983, despite numerous domestic protests, the Germans approved forward deployment of P-IIs on their soil. C-5 aircraft began flying the missiles to Ramstein AB for redeployment to 56 FA a few days later. During 1987, influenced by the precision accuracy of the P-II, the Soviets and the US conducted INF negotiations. In short, the Soviets backed down on this issue.
Afghanistan: This was the Soviet version of Vietnam. Unfortunately, our support of the insurgents during the early 80s came back to bite us in the ass later on. However, the spending for arming the insurgency during this period was relentless. The goal was to transform Afghanistan into a quagmire as messy as possible for the Soviets. To some degree, the strategy worked rather well.
Conventional force modernization: Many of the conventional force improvements had already been developed prior to Reagan entering office. At any rate, Reagan accelerated defense spending. This increased spending produced dramatic improvements during the 80s thereby resulting in a force that could actually fight and win.
Grenada, 1983: This sent a huge message to Castro, the Soviets and the American people. We were tired of defeat. Two days before this invasion, the USMC barracks in Lebanon was bombed, killing 241 Marines. We desperately required an event to strengthen our confidence and demonstrate our resolve. The success of the operation in Grenada provided both.
Perestroika is seen by many as instrumental in the Soviet economic collapse. While their economy wasn't growing, it certainly wasn't at crises stage when Gorbachev took over. The CIA began reporting on declining Soviet growth rates in the 1960s. Once Gorbi entered the equation, analysts at the CIA were able to further refine their estimates.
Some historians think that the decline in the Soviet economy actually began during the 1970s under Brezhnev. Brezhnev believed that capitalism was doomed to failure. In order to hasten this "failure", he therefore escalated the arms race and Soviet influence in the Third World.
The Reagan admin had a significant influence on the "end" of the Cold War through policy. However, to say that Reagan "won" the Cold War is somewhat misleading, in my opinion. There were a couple of defining actions on his part though:
P-II and Cruise Missile deployment: The 230 Pershing II missiles deployed to southern Germany in 1983-84 scared the living hell out of the Soviets. P-IIs, which could reach Moscow twenty minutes off the pad, definitely pushed the Soviets towards the INF. NATO originally approved the missile deployment in 1979. There were already approximately 160 P-Is in country in German and US hands prior to deployment. Incidentally, the warheads were under US control. In late 1983, despite numerous domestic protests, the Germans approved forward deployment of P-IIs on their soil. C-5 aircraft began flying the missiles to Ramstein AB for redeployment to 56 FA a few days later. During 1987, influenced by the precision accuracy of the P-II, the Soviets and the US conducted INF negotiations. In short, the Soviets backed down on this issue.
Afghanistan: This was the Soviet version of Vietnam. Unfortunately, our support of the insurgents during the early 80s came back to bite us in the ass later on. However, the spending for arming the insurgency during this period was relentless. The goal was to transform Afghanistan into a quagmire as messy as possible for the Soviets. To some degree, the strategy worked rather well.
Conventional force modernization: Many of the conventional force improvements had already been developed prior to Reagan entering office. At any rate, Reagan accelerated defense spending. This increased spending produced dramatic improvements during the 80s thereby resulting in a force that could actually fight and win.
Grenada, 1983: This sent a huge message to Castro, the Soviets and the American people. We were tired of defeat. Two days before this invasion, the USMC barracks in Lebanon was bombed, killing 241 Marines. We desperately required an event to strengthen our confidence and demonstrate our resolve. The success of the operation in Grenada provided both.
Originally posted by: NesuD
Originally posted by: outriding
I give full credit to Ms. Cleo and people like her.
That speach was in 87 which is way into reagan's second term.
If you have read nancys book it reveals that SHE was running the show in the second term.
While running the show she heavily consulted "Ms. Cleo".
I dont think we give enough credit to Ms. Cleo and her kind... since they are the ones who a actually bringing world
peace
Put on your boots the s#%t is getting deep around here.
did you read her book ??? if you don't then you dont have a any reason to question me.
article one
a bunch more
Ronnie was soo far into alzheimers at the end of his first term that he should never have ran for a 2nd term so nancy stepped up to run the white house
but i do admit the last line was just funny
and yes cad i was outriding...
my ride.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: NesuD
Originally posted by: outriding
I give full credit to Ms. Cleo and people like her.
That speach was in 87 which is way into reagan's second term.
If you have read nancys book it reveals that SHE was running the show in the second term.
While running the show she heavily consulted "Ms. Cleo".
I dont think we give enough credit to Ms. Cleo and her kind... since they are the ones who a actually bringing world
peace
Put on your boots the s#%t is getting deep around here.
did you read her book ??? if you don't then you dont have a any reason to question me.
article one
a bunch more
Ronnie was soo far into alzheimers at the end of his first term that he should never have ran for a 2nd term so nancy stepped up to run the white house
but i do admit the last line was just funny
and yes cad i was outriding...
my ride.
Seems you must have been bucked by that steel horse...hope you didn't hit your head
CkG
it never ceases to amuse me that many people who are impotent against facts start of thier distortions against what i say with the tired old phrase "so your saying...*insert asinine comment that has nothing to do with my actual point here*"
no that is not what i am saying. what i said is what i said. it is funny you mention fascists, most of those were socialists too like many leftists in this country today.
my point is without opposition bad government perpetuates into tyrrany and spreads... the forefathers of this country knew this, a few still remember it. they are chastised for it by those who do not learn the lessons of history and would make our nation just like any other socialistic failure.
China won't collapse, but it will continue with all of its reforms.
Also, I'm going to have to add my vote to those saying Reagan accelerated it. The fact is the USSR was doomed to fail, he just made it faster.
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