Did my CPU just die out of nowhere? How can I tell if it's burned?

[lektrix]

Last night, I was browsing the Internet/MSN and my PC suddenly shut off on it own. It wouldn't power on ever again. I opened it up and smelt a lot of smoke. The CPU HSF was unbelievably hot. My first guess was the CPU because everything else I touched seemed normal (PSU, RAM, Northbridge, video card, HDDs, etc.). I also smelt the smoke coming from the top so I knew it was either the CPU or motherboard that blew.

Anyways I let everything cool down, disconnected everything except for CPU, RAM, checked that all the plugs were safe and secure, and turned the PC on and it powered on for 0.5 seconds (I saw the fans flinch) but it suddenly stopped. I wasn't sure if it was my motherboard or not (still a possibility) so I took the CPU out of the socket, plugged a few fans into my motherboard, turned the PC on and voila, everything seems to run fine. Fans connected to my PSU are running full speed, fans connected to the motherboard are running full speed - this means the motherboard and PSU should be fine no? As soon as the CPU is attached to the motherboard, nothing runs. The fans either flinch for 0.5s or I hear some static/electricity noise presumably coming from the CPU socket.

I can't be 100% sure that it's not the motherboard, but something tells me there's a small chance that the CPU socket is messed up or it's just the CPU. I vacuumed the entire motherboard and made sure no dust/particles are causing any interference and I had a full inspection. Everything looks normal. The CPU looks good as new. I don't see burn marks anywhere even though I clearly smelt smoke the day before.

Does anyone else have any further suggestions? Or comments? How can my CPU just die out of nowhere when I put it through 10+ hours of Crysis OCed a few months ago?


My specs:
E6420 2.13GHz OCed @ 3.2GHz (<1.4V) w/ TR U90 +120MM fan
Gigabyte DS3L REV2 (second one....first one died)
Corsair HX620W PSU

 

[ch33zw1z]

When you pull the CPU out, your system board should sound off a POST error code. Same goes for RAM and VGA. If you do not get POST errors when any three of these are removed, there's a problem with the mobo...hope this help.

 

[lektrix]

Originally posted by: Paperdoc
You say twice, "... the HSF for my CPU was unbelievably HOT ...". Two thoughts:

1. Was it the FAN and / or its motor, specifically, that was so hot? If so, that says the problem is the fan motor and it was not running properly, and hence not cooling the CPU properly. The smoke MIGHT just have been from the fan motor itself, not from the CPU or mobo.

Hi, the Thermalright Ultima 90 itself was very hot to touch. I don't the overheating fan could have caused my PC to shut down on its own like that.

2. If it was actually the HEAT SINK itself, and not the fan, then somehow the heat sink is receiving a lot more heat than it is getting rid of. That certainly would NOT indicate a problem with the AS5 - heat IS flowing from CPU to Heat Sink. But it means either the CPU is generating a LOT more heat than normal, OR the Heat Sink's fan is not removing it fast enough. Is that fan turning at all? Can you tell how fast it is running? If the heat sink was that hot, the fan should have been turning at top speed.

I specifically set my fan at 5V because I strive to have a silent PC.

IMO, either one, or more of these failed:

1. AS5 (highly unlikely)
2. TR U90 HSF
3. 120mm Fan
4. E6420 CPU

AS5 can't be the issue, I use the AS5 for the Northbridge and my 8800GTS video card, if the AS5 is defective or expired (it's 2+ years old), then my NB or video card would be dead as well.

Never seen a heatsink "fail" but beats me.

Even if the fan did die, or malfunction at that point, the HSF should be more than capable of cooling the CPU. A fan is not mandatory but only aids the cooling process. I was NOT stressing my PC at the time (I was surfing/MSN) so it was only around 30C idle give or take. Besides, I have 4 other fans in my PC and my basement ambient temp is 20-22C, way below average.

Pretty sure the CPU died, but how so?

In either case, if the fan is the suspected culprit the the solution may be to replace the HSF assembly, with new AS5 of course. We can always hope that the reason your system "died" is that the BIOS caught on to the rising CPU temperture and shut it down to protect the CPU from damage, so it is OK.

I put the CPU back in, put on some new AS5, threw the HSF on, but it still won't boot up. I think irreversible damage has been done already. At the least my PC should boot UNTIL it reaches the temperature threshold in which it self destructs or shuts down. I mean if it doesn't BOOT, something is wrong.

I am hoping this is the right direction to investigate. My hypothesis is that, if the CPU were actually generating 'way too much heat (either because of its own flaws or your OC settings, or because the PSU or MOBO voltage regulators went bad), I would expect its temperature to rise enough to cause the BIOS monitors on CPU temperature to shut it down BEFORE the HSF actually got really hot. The situation you describe, I think, indicates the problem is not excess heat generation, but poor heat removal.

It could very much be the motherboard which would make it two dead DS3Ls in less than 3 months =\. I hear static/electricity noise everytime I power on the PC now and it sounds like it's coming from the CPU socket. Could be some regulators but how can I verify?

I guess I'll know when my friend has time to throw my CPU into his C2D setup and see if it works. If the CPU works, then I guess it's the motherboard. I guess I should bring my PSU to his place to make sure that works fine too, but from what I see it's fine.

 

[aigomorla]

only things that can smoke in you system.

capacitors after they exploded.

mosfets after they been melted.

or dust getting in contact of a very hot mosfet.

All of these are located on either your PSU or Motherboard or GPU cards.


all 3 is dangerous, and should merit a board and psu swap to be safe.

The board and PSU are 2 things in your system that you seriously dont want to smoke because it can and will take your entire system out if they want to.


OP i lost a 2000 dollar AMD system because i was ignorant on a warning from a Mod here b4 i became a mod. He warned me about using cheap PSU's.

Well when that psu went out, and i had a smoking incident like you did, it zaped my ram, cpu and gpu and board.

You dont have a crap PSU, however, something smoked in your system. Find out what it is and REPLACE IT. DONT IGNORE IT.

 

[Foxery]

Could you tell whether the smell was metal or plastic burning? I have had power connectors burn up before, but you have some awfully good quality parts for that to happen. Pull out and check over the RAM and video card just to be sure. These also get pretty hot.

edit:
Just saw your reply with more info. If you're hearing noise, then aigo is probably on the right track with it being a blown motherboard component.

 

[lektrix]

Originally posted by: ch33zw1z
When you pull the CPU out, your system board should sound off a POST error code. Same goes for RAM and VGA. If you do not get POST errors when any three of these are removed, there's a problem with the mobo...hope this help.

So I should be hearing loud beeps when I try to power up my PC with only the motherboard + PSU connected right? I thought because the fans worked that the motherboard still functioned properly but you are right.

I knew something was missing..thanks, it's most likely the motherboard then sigh...DS3L might be cheap but that's two dead DS3Ls for me in less than 3 months, don't think I will go for a third =

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: lektrix

Originally posted by: ch33zw1z
When you pull the CPU out, your system board should sound off a POST error code. Same goes for RAM and VGA. If you do not get POST errors when any three of these are removed, there's a problem with the mobo...hope this help.

So I should be hearing loud beeps when I try to power up my PC with only the motherboard + PSU connected right? I thought because the fans worked that the motherboard still functioned properly but you are right.

I knew something was missing..thanks, it's most likely the motherboard then sigh...DS3L might be cheap but that's two dead DS3Ls for me in less than 3 months, don't think I will go for a third =

that doesnt sound right. It sounds like maybe your PSU is bad if its killing 2 boards. Yes the DS3L is a cheap board, but its not a board to go dead on someone twice in a row.

ECS doesnt even do that, and id pick gigabyte over ECS in a heart beat.

 

[lektrix]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
only things that can smoke in you system.

capacitors after they exploded.

mosfets after they been melted.

or dust getting in contact of a very hot mosfet.

All of these are located on either your PSU or Motherboard or GPU cards.

all 3 is dangerous, and should merit a board and psu swap to be safe.

The board and PSU are 2 things in your system that you seriously dont want to smoke because it can and will take your entire system out if they want to.

What is the safest way to test if was my PSU? I was thinking of using it on my friend's computer, but if it's unstable or broken, it could possibly take out his system as well...

Originally posted by: Foxery
Could you tell whether the smell was metal or plastic burning? I have had power connectors burn up before, but you have some awfully good quality parts for that to happen. Pull out and check over the RAM and video card just to be sure. These also get pretty hot.

edit:
Just saw your reply with more info. If you're hearing noise, then aigo is probably on the right track with it being a blown motherboard component.

I couldn't tell the smell but I think it was metal. I checked all the plugs and connectors and they seem fine. Probably is the motherboard =\.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I have been told that attempting to power-on a motherboard without a CPU inserted can, in some cases, damage the mobo.

But in any case, smoke is bad. Real bad. I agree with the others, replace the mobo + PSU, if you can't find the culprit. The CPU may have escaped unharmed, you'll have to try it in a good board to test it.

 

[lektrix]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: lektrix

Originally posted by: ch33zw1z
When you pull the CPU out, your system board should sound off a POST error code. Same goes for RAM and VGA. If you do not get POST errors when any three of these are removed, there's a problem with the mobo...hope this help.

So I should be hearing loud beeps when I try to power up my PC with only the motherboard + PSU connected right? I thought because the fans worked that the motherboard still functioned properly but you are right.

I knew something was missing..thanks, it's most likely the motherboard then sigh...DS3L might be cheap but that's two dead DS3Ls for me in less than 3 months, don't think I will go for a third =

that doesnt sound right. It sounds like maybe your PSU is bad if its killing 2 boards. Yes the DS3L is a cheap board, but its not a board to go dead on someone twice in a row.

ECS doesnt even do that, and id pick gigabyte over ECS in a heart beat.

The last thing I want is my PSU to be causing problems. I spent good money UPGRADING it 6 months ago from a crappy OCZ to a Corsair which is suppose to be the best. When my first board died, it was because there was a short circuit for unknown reasons. Could have been my PSU or could have been me (I was fiddling with fans and playing around with the fan voltages) but I'm pretty sure it was me....

How can I test the PSU without endangering someone else's system?

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: lektrix

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: lektrix

Originally posted by: ch33zw1z
When you pull the CPU out, your system board should sound off a POST error code. Same goes for RAM and VGA. If you do not get POST errors when any three of these are removed, there's a problem with the mobo...hope this help.

So I should be hearing loud beeps when I try to power up my PC with only the motherboard + PSU connected right? I thought because the fans worked that the motherboard still functioned properly but you are right.

I knew something was missing..thanks, it's most likely the motherboard then sigh...DS3L might be cheap but that's two dead DS3Ls for me in less than 3 months, don't think I will go for a third =

that doesnt sound right. It sounds like maybe your PSU is bad if its killing 2 boards. Yes the DS3L is a cheap board, but its not a board to go dead on someone twice in a row.

ECS doesnt even do that, and id pick gigabyte over ECS in a heart beat.

The last thing I want is my PSU to be causing problems. I spent good money UPGRADING it 6 months ago from a crappy OCZ to a Corsair which is suppose to be the best. When my first board died, it was because there was a short circuit for unknown reasons. Could have been my PSU or could have been me (I was fiddling with fans and playing around with the fan voltages) but I'm pretty sure it was me....

How can I test the PSU without endangering someone else's system?

PSU Tester. :\

However you need to put it on load to see whats going on.

Take a good sniff inside your psu and see if you smell smoke inside. :

Corsiar has awesome warrenty so dont worry. :\

 

[lektrix]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
I have been told that attempting to power-on a motherboard without a CPU inserted can, in some cases, damage the mobo.

But in any case, smoke is bad. Real bad. I agree with the others, replace the mobo + PSU, if you can't find the culprit. The CPU may have escaped unharmed, you'll have to try it in a good board to test it.

Hmmm...

Before I powered on the motherboard without a CPU inserted, I tried to power it on with the CPU inserted but it didn't work. Fans would flich 0.5s then stop. So I guess the point is moot now, motherboard was possibly damaged before and if I've caused further damage to it then oh well, it's not like it's going to magically work anymore =(...

I plan to test my CPU, RAM, video card on a friend's system but I'm not sure how I can test the PSU safely without endangering his system. I think the PSU is fine because it can run my 5-6 fans right now without anything connected but again I don't know if it can run more than just the 5-6 fans.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: lektrix
What is the safest way to test if was my PSU? I was thinking of using it on my friend's computer, but if it's unstable or broken, it could possibly take out his system as well...

You could do the "eyeball test", but that isn't very definitive where you will only know if there is an error that you can see. Pop open the PSU and check the primary and secondary caps for any bulges. All surfaces should be perfectly flat, so any rounded portion on the top of the cap is a dead giveaway of a failure. You can also check the PCB for shorts. Do this by looking at all traces and checking for any dark brown or warped areas which shows excessive heat usually caused by a short. Other than that, you could load up each line to its rated value and check to make sure each is within specifications. this last one is only really feasible if you have access to an electronics lab with an accurate O-scope (along with the circuitry you will need for loading, but a simple pot in a circuit with resistors should be good enough to do this manually - of course if you aren't used to doing this type of testing you are probably going to want to abstain, it can be very dangerous to both you and your equipment if you aren't careful).

edit: Also, running fans from your PSU doesn't mean that it works. The fans won't load the unit at all, and are about as simple as circuits go so they would run even if they were getting a horrible signal from the power supply. I didn't realize that you had a new quality PSU, so I suggest against opening up the unit to check for failures as that would probably void your warranty.

 

[lektrix]

Originally posted by: Martimus

Originally posted by: lektrix
What is the safest way to test if was my PSU? I was thinking of using it on my friend's computer, but if it's unstable or broken, it could possibly take out his system as well...

You could do the "eyeball test", but that isn't very definitive where you will only know if there is an error that you can see. Pop open the PSU and check the primary and secondary caps for any bulges. All surfaces should be perfectly flat, so any rounded portion on the top of the cap is a dead giveaway of a failure. You can also check the PCB for shorts. Do this by looking at all traces and checking for any dark brown or warped areas which shows excessive heat usually caused by a short. Other than that, you could load up each line to its rated value and check to make sure each is within specifications. this last one is only really feasible if you have access to an electronics lab with an accurate O-scope (along with the circuitry you will need for loading, but a simple pot in a circuit with resistors should be good enough to do this manually - of course if you aren't used to doing this type of testing you are probably going to want to obstain, it can be very dangerous to both you and your equipment if you aren't careful).

I think I'll opt out of this method of testing not only for safety reasons, but also for warranty reasons. IIRC, isn't warranty void if the PSU is opened? The manufacturers don't even want people replacing the PSU fans...

 

[lektrix]

Originally posted by: Martimus
edit: Also, running fans from your PSU doesn't mean that it works. The fans won't load the unit at all, and are about as simple as circuits go so they would run even if they were getting a horrible signal from the power supply. I didn't realize that you had a new quality PSU, so I suggest against opening up the unit to check for failures as that would probably void your warranty.

My motherboard can run fans too when I have them connected with no CPU in the CPU socket but as soon as I put the CPU in, nothing works and I hear some static/electricity noise.

 

[lektrix]

holy crap...I was just going over my motherboard and when I powered it, the middle capacitor on the right side of the CPU socket (http://www.itreviews.co.uk/gra...al/hardware/h1400.jpg) blew and a lot of smoke came out. My fire alarm just turned on too lol. This was the exact static/electricity noise I was talking about but this time actual smoke came out. Is it a complete goner or can I actually fix this myself instead of waiting 2 months for Gigabyte to send me a new one?

 

[Foxery]

They might cross-ship if you don't mind putting down a security deposit. (I assume you're past the retailer's warranty period.)

 

[lektrix]

Originally posted by: Foxery
They might cross-ship if you don't mind putting down a security deposit. (I assume you're past the retailer's warranty period.)

I don't think they offer that service.

Gigabyte :disgust:

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: lektrix
holy crap...I was just going over my motherboard and when I powered it, the middle capacitor on the right side of the CPU socket (http://www.itreviews.co.uk/gra...al/hardware/h1400.jpg) blew and a lot of smoke came out. My fire alarm just turned on too lol. This was the exact static/electricity noise I was talking about but this time actual smoke came out. Is it a complete goner or can I actually fix this myself instead of waiting 2 months for Gigabyte to send me a new one?

If a cap blew, there is a good chance that it took other components with it. I would not attempt to fix this. Usually when I cap goes, it draws a huge amount of current at the last second as the insulating material fails and the conducting components esentially short together. This wreaks havok on the other components in series with the capacitor, along with the traces on the PCB. this is just from my experiences with failures in the lab. I found this which probably does a better explaination about what happens. After reading that, I see that most Electrolytic Caps have a safety cap that goes before it blows up, (which is nice, those caps send lots of shrapnel when they blow; I blew up a 6800uF cap and it left metal chunks embedded in the concrete walls and the solid wood table. luckily I was out of the way at the time!) but the sudden discharge still usually kills the components in series with it.

 

[lektrix]

Originally posted by: Martimus

Originally posted by: lektrix
holy crap...I was just going over my motherboard and when I powered it, the middle capacitor on the right side of the CPU socket (http://www.itreviews.co.uk/gra...al/hardware/h1400.jpg) blew and a lot of smoke came out. My fire alarm just turned on too lol. This was the exact static/electricity noise I was talking about but this time actual smoke came out. Is it a complete goner or can I actually fix this myself instead of waiting 2 months for Gigabyte to send me a new one?

If a cap blew, there is a good chance that it took other components with it. I would not attempt to fix this. Usually when I cap goes, it draws a huge amount of current at the last second as the insulating material fails and the conducting components esentially short together. This wreaks havok on the other components in series with the capacitor, along with the traces on the PCB. this is just from my experiences with failures in the lab. I found this which probably does a better explaination about what happens. After reading that, I see that most Electrolytic Caps have a safety cap that goes before it blows up, (which is nice, those caps send lots of shrapnel when they blow; I blew up a 6800uF cap and it left metal chunks embedded in the concrete walls and the solid wood table. luckily I was out of the way at the time!) but the sudden discharge still usually kills the components in series with it.

Wow shrapnel...I didn't see any of that but as soon as I saw smoke coming out I took the power plug out and went for cover

 

[lektrix]

Scary read as well.

Imagine if all my other high-end hardware died.

Who would reimburse me? Gigabyte? Corsair?

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: lektrix
Scary read as well.

Imagine if all my other high-end hardware died.

Who would reimburse me? Gigabyte? Corsair?

neither. Only the vendor who had the bad eq will reinburse only the bad eq.

They dont hold liability for anything else, so your SOL. :\


Didnt i warn you not to try again until you replaced both psu and board. :\

 

[toadeater]

Originally posted by: lektrix
DS3L might be cheap but that's two dead DS3Ls for me in less than 3 months

What happened to the first one?

 

[StinkyPinky]

Two mobos dying within months of each other? Highly unusual - I would suggest the PSU is suspect and would RMA it. The next time it could take out your entire system.

 

[lektrix]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: lektrix
Scary read as well.

Imagine if all my other high-end hardware died.

Who would reimburse me? Gigabyte? Corsair?

neither. Only the vendor who had the bad eq will reinburse only the bad eq.

They dont hold liability for anything else, so your SOL. :\


Didnt i warn you not to try again until you replaced both psu and board. :\

Corsair might not take my PSU back if I'm not 100% sure there's something wrong with it. Let me check the receipt to see if I had the Corsair before my first dead board.

Originally posted by: toadeater

Originally posted by: lektrix
DS3L might be cheap but that's two dead DS3Ls for me in less than 3 months

What happened to the first one?

Short circuit from my fans or something...I was playing around with the voltages to see which noise level would fit my PC best...next thing you know my PC wouldn't turn on again =\