Did Iran shoot down the airliner?

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,908
136
There was no reason for the US to clear airspace if we were not going to be conducting combat missions - which we did not that day when Iran launched the missiles. That is why I said my suspicion was the US would not be retaliating at that time which proved to be correct.
A through well thought out plan would have anticipated something like this? Did we issue a warning to all Americans to leave the country?
 

DrunkenSano

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2008
3,892
490
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So the folks that supplied the missile tech that killed those hundred plus victims and the missile crew that shot down that civilian aircraft are going to be prosecuted and punished right? And the families and loved ones of the victims are going to be compensated for their loss too, right?

In addition those forensics folks who are investigating this probable shootdown are going to be facing bribes, threats and other sundry inducements in order to hide who was responsible while those responsible are of course going to be entrenched in a bunker-o-denial.

Methinks nobody is going to pay any damn thing for killing those innocents.

Did the US pay out to the afghan families that were instagibbed by our drone strikes just because they were unlucky to be in the target area or just incorrectly targeted? The rich and powerful never care about the poor innocents.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
Net.

It was Russia.

Russia would love a US/Iran war. They can then take over Iran entirely for themselves. Or, prop-up/support Iran and ergo own them forever and ever.
I'm curious how Trump/Putin really get along. If we were to take on Iran in a swift shock and awe situation like Iraq, that's one thing. A boots on the ground offensive would take probably 5 times more troops as what we had in Iraq and would take a lot more time.

The Iran population is higher and the country is much larger than Iraq. I'm sure Trump knows it's not worth doing more than trying to control them through sanctions and being ready to take out any immediate threats when they arise within the region.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,859
4,976
126
Well yes--it's entirely a situation that Trump, and only Trump created. These are the things you expect to happen when pondering the type of decision that was put in front of Trump (rather--that he specifically requested in order to do a bit of wagging--this will never be in dispute). This is exactly the collateral damage that happens when you force an opponent to test their own security measures. It doesn't dispel blame from them, of course, but they were forced into an impossible situation with little wiggle room. It's fucking horrible and tragic, but of course it was a situation in time that only Trump is responsible for.

I'll repeat... blah blah blah, stocks are up!
 

ShookKnight

Senior member
Dec 12, 2019
646
658
96
I'm curious how Trump/Putin really get along.
Trump serves Putin.

If we were to take on Iran in a swift shock and awe situation like Iraq, that's one thing. A boots on the ground offensive would take probably 5 times more troops as what we had in Iraq and would take a lot more time.

The Iran population is higher and the country is much larger than Iraq. I'm sure Trump knows it's not worth doing more than trying to control them through sanctions and being ready to take out any immediate threats when they arise within the region.
I don't think the goal would be for the US and Iran to work together on Iran. Iran would be wrecked, no doubt. And Russia would take them over. Also, the US would be weakened even further (trillions more in debt, populace would be pissed off, etc). We haven't exactly dominated in the Middle East either. Sure, we are great at killing people attending weddings and we've done well with posing in pictures with children we just sniped. But, we haven't made things better. We've killed more Middle East civilians than actual combatants. We've wrecked infrastructure. We haven't brought any peace, order and democracy in any capacity.
 
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allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
25,078
4,542
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CNN says that a US official says that Iran shot it down with Russian-made surface-to-air missiles.

"The US saw Iranian radar signals lock onto the jetliner, before it was shot down."


Take it for whatever you think it's worth.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
How can this be speculation?

When did the missiles hit the Iraqi bases?
When was the airliner shot down?

That should be verifiable down to the second within highschool math.

Wait what?
Is this the same fucking thing that happened with MH17? Someone forgot to read the manual, in russian, before they switched the BUK system on?
 
Last edited:
May 13, 2009
12,333
612
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Well yes--it's entirely a situation that Trump, and only Trump created. These are the things you expect to happen when pondering the type of decision that was put in front of Trump (rather--that he specifically requested in order to do a bit of wagging--this will never be in dispute). This is exactly the collateral damage that happens when you force an opponent to test their own security measures. It doesn't dispel blame from them, of course, but they were forced into an impossible situation with little wiggle room. It's fucking horrible and tragic, but of course it was a situation in time that only Trump is responsible for.
Poor Iran. They were forced into firing off missiles at the bad American's. lol

If you hate America so much why stay?
 
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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,538
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CNN says that a US official says that Iran shot it down with Russian-made surface-to-air missiles.

"The US saw Iranian radar signals lock onto the jetliner, before it was shot down."

I've posted a video of the missile hitting a plane around that area. It's essentially confirmed.

How can this be speculation?

When did the missiles hit the Iraqi bases?
When was the airliner shot down?

That should be verifiable down to the second within highschool math.

It was hours after. But would have been very coincidental. It looks like the Iranians were bracing for a hit by Donnie and Hack Hannity.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
126
How can this be speculation?

When did the missiles hit the Iraqi bases?
When was the airliner shot down?

That should be verifiable down to the second within highschool math.
different missile systems. surface to surface vs surface to air
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
It's pretty clear Iran shot down that plane. The problem with all this is that it makes no sense to do it intentionally as there were no Americans onboard. Why shoot down a commercial plane with a bunch of Canadians and Iranians on it to retaliate against a US strike? Which suggests it was an accident. If so, how does that even happen? Did they think there was a US warplane flying directly over Tehran?
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
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different missile systems. surface to surface vs surface to air
Indeed, I thought the message was "by accident" as in one of the missiles intercepted the airliner by accident. Also, this seems to be tor not buk as in ukraine .. or whatever we shall call the russian occupied part of ukraine... still both russian systems though.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
CNN says that a US official says that Iran shot it down with Russian-made surface-to-air missiles.

"The US saw Iranian radar signals lock onto the jetliner, before it was shot down."


Take it for whatever you think it's worth.
An official with the Iranian Civil Air Organization says it's "Scientifically Impossible that a missile hit the plane."

You really can't argue with science here. :rolleyes:
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
It's pretty clear Iran shot down that plane. The problem with all this is that it makes no sense to do it intentionally as their were no Americans onboard. Why shoot down a commercial plane with a bunch of Canadians and Iranians on it to retaliate against a US strike? Which suggests it was an accident. If so, how does that even happen? Did they think there was a US warplane flying directly over Tehran?

I guess Iran have deployed a number of SAMs around what could be conceived to be of the "52 targets" Trump rambled about! - and then the russian manuel adressed TWO buttons, one says "shoot everything", the other says "only shoot americans" .. but it was in russian so they flipped a coin.

But maybe the international community begins to have a case vs the Vlad here, this is the second time a haywire russian shootie thinge downs random civilians from the sky.
 
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May 13, 2009
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I guess Iran have deployed a number of SAMs around what could be conceived to be of the "52 targets" Trump rambled about.
I heard Trump himself was in Iran that night and fired a bazooka at the airliner. It was the only sure way to cover the tracks of his war crimes against the great Soliemani that would never dare hurt a soul in his life. And it's a great distraction as well from the 100% solid impeachment that is coming his way. Pelosi just forgot where the paperwork is at so she can file it.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
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Can we please stop manufacturing "news" stories over dumb shit like this:


I'm sure that in every group of 150 people getting onto a plane, at least one person had a bad feeling about it, because people tend to worry over flying.

The very fact that they make this into a news story implies to the reader that we should believe that somehow this woman experienced precognition. And if they aren't implying that, then why is it a story?
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
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I heard Trump himself was in Iran that night and fired a bazooka at the airliner. It was the only sure way to cover the tracks of his war crimes against the great Soliemani that would never dare hurt a soul in his life. And it's a great distraction as well from the 100% solid impeachment that is coming his way. Pelosi just forgot where the paperwork is at so she can file it.

What?
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,150
7,645
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Honestly, at the moment, this whole thing comes out looking like a "win" for Trump for everyone that looks at things as a zero sum power positioning game.

US came out of this whole thing (so far) with a serious enemy of the state dead, no casualties in the missile counterattack, and their geopolitical opponent looking like a fool shooting down a civilian airliner that took off from their own airport with a bunch of international civilians on board.

At the end of the day this is looking like Trump took a gamble and it payed off big time.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,745
40,187
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Looks to me like they did.

I hope the Iranians show more cooperation and compassion in the response than the Russians did when MH17 was shot down.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,031
45,270
136
I did not indicate to whom the Iranians would not hand over the CVR or FDR even. I would presume they would either make the data public to investigators or hand it over to Ukraine. Not sure the protocol, but the data is typically made available is my understanding. Though perhaps not everything to the public at large but certainly the findings once the investigation is complete.
They have said they weren't handing it over to the USA or Boeing, not that they were not going to hand it over to another relevant agency.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
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Can we please stop manufacturing "news" stories over dumb shit like this:


I'm sure that in every group of 150 people getting onto a plane, at least one person had a bad feeling about it, because people tend to worry over flying.

The very fact that they make this into a news story implies to the reader that we should believe that somehow this woman experienced precognition. And if they aren't implying that, then why is it a story?

Because a large portion of the public *loves* that shit. It's click bait.
 
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