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Did everyone remember to celebrate May Day today?

Happy International Labor Day to you too. You enjoy the benefits of an 8 hour work day and other accomplishments of the labor movement as much as the rest of us do.
 
I celebrated May Day by going into work an hour late... and you know what? I think I might leave early too! :shocked:
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Happy International Labor Day to you too. You enjoy the benefits of an 8 hour work day and other accomplishments of the labor movement as much as the rest of us do.
Click to expand...

Try again. That anti-semitic fascist Henry Ford standardized the 8-hour work day. While that war profiteer Henry Kaiser gave us our health benefits, etc. In both cases, they did it to make more profits by attracting better, more highly-skilled labor.
I have found that people who point to the horrible living and working conditions at the beginning of the industrial age seem unaware that those prior to were even worse.

The unionist/workers' socialist movement in the US came about in the tobacco industry of the late 1800s. (and not by Karl Marx as generally believed). Samuel Gompers, founder of the AFL, was a cigar roller. The job was tedious and boring, and they were paid per cigar rolled. To alleviate the boredom, the workers would pool their funds to pay one of them to read to the rest of them while the worked. Voila! The union was born.
But then Gompers was anti-immigration and anti-unskilled labor, and refused to allow those groups to unionize, which led to the formation of IWW.

Communism, as it has existed, is a dystopian nightmare that even Marx never intended.
IMO, workers have every right to organize just as management and capital have the right to organize. And some leading unionists in America rank among my personal heroes (like Pete Seeger). But unions would be wise to distance themselves for the obvious failure that is communism, instead of continuing to cling to this flawed ideal.


edit: Victims of Communism official site. 100+ million dead 🙁
rose.gif

 
Riiight, so business is what gave us 8 hour work weeks and overtime? Are you telling me that businesses actually want you to only work 8 hours and want to pay you overtime if you work more, and aren't doing it because of laws enacted with support of labor?
Other countries seem to have gotten 8 hour work weeks and more affordable health care without Ford and Kaiser.
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Riiight, so business is what gave us 8 hour work weeks and overtime? Are you telling me that businesses actually want you to only work 8 hours and want to pay you overtime if you work more, and aren't doing it because of laws enacted with support of labor?
Other countries seem to have gotten 8 hour work weeks and more affordable health care without Ford and Kaiser.
Click to expand...

What I posted were historical facts in regards to what happened here in the US. If you have historical facts of your own to counter mine, please do so. Otherwise...

But... socialist spiel and its opposing (and just as wrong) right-wing rhetoric aside, it is in business' interests to have a healthy, educated workforce, and most businesses knows this. Hell, business has driven many of these reforms, continues to do so to this day (particularly on the health care front).
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Riiight, so business is what gave us 8 hour work weeks and overtime? Are you telling me that businesses actually want you to only work 8 hours and want to pay you overtime if you work more, and aren't doing it because of laws enacted with support of labor?
Other countries seem to have gotten 8 hour work weeks and more affordable health care without Ford and Kaiser.
Click to expand...

It is in their interest to attract more and better workers. Common sense and the historical facts posted by Vic owns you again.
 
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: senseamp
Riiight, so business is what gave us 8 hour work weeks and overtime? Are you telling me that businesses actually want you to only work 8 hours and want to pay you overtime if you work more, and aren't doing it because of laws enacted with support of labor?
Other countries seem to have gotten 8 hour work weeks and more affordable health care without Ford and Kaiser.
Click to expand...

It is in their interest to attract more and better workers. Common sense and the historical facts posted by Vic owns you again.
Click to expand...

Common sense is something you wouldn't know if it smacked you in the face.
If they are paying overtime because it's in their interest (according to your "common sense"), then why did we need labor laws to require overtime pay?
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: senseamp
Riiight, so business is what gave us 8 hour work weeks and overtime? Are you telling me that businesses actually want you to only work 8 hours and want to pay you overtime if you work more, and aren't doing it because of laws enacted with support of labor?
Other countries seem to have gotten 8 hour work weeks and more affordable health care without Ford and Kaiser.
Click to expand...

It is in their interest to attract more and better workers. Common sense and the historical facts posted by Vic owns you again.
Click to expand...

Common sense is something you wouldn't know if it smacked you in the face.
If they are paying overtime because it's in their interest (according to your "common sense"), then why did we need labor laws to require overtime pay?
Click to expand...

To provide a level playing field of competition to make sure that every employer does it. Otherwise, the "fly-by-nighters" looking for a quick buck would have an unfair advantage on those in it for the long haul.
 
Originally posted by: Colt45
Give me a break. On what day should we think of the victims of capitalism, then?
Click to expand...

When has capitalism ever had death camps? 😕
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: senseamp
Riiight, so business is what gave us 8 hour work weeks and overtime? Are you telling me that businesses actually want you to only work 8 hours and want to pay you overtime if you work more, and aren't doing it because of laws enacted with support of labor?
Other countries seem to have gotten 8 hour work weeks and more affordable health care without Ford and Kaiser.
Click to expand...

It is in their interest to attract more and better workers. Common sense and the historical facts posted by Vic owns you again.
Click to expand...

Common sense is something you wouldn't know if it smacked you in the face.
If they are paying overtime because it's in their interest (according to your "common sense"), then why did we need labor laws to require overtime pay?
Click to expand...

To provide a level playing field of competition to make sure that every employer does it. Otherwise, the "fly-by-nighters" looking for a quick buck would have an unfair advantage on those in it for the long haul.
Click to expand...

Oh, so it's now both in their best interest to pay overtime over 8 hours and gives them an unfair advantage if they don't? That is some "common sense" indeed. :roll:
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: senseamp
Riiight, so business is what gave us 8 hour work weeks and overtime? Are you telling me that businesses actually want you to only work 8 hours and want to pay you overtime if you work more, and aren't doing it because of laws enacted with support of labor?
Other countries seem to have gotten 8 hour work weeks and more affordable health care without Ford and Kaiser.
Click to expand...

It is in their interest to attract more and better workers. Common sense and the historical facts posted by Vic owns you again.
Click to expand...

Common sense is something you wouldn't know if it smacked you in the face.
If they are paying overtime because it's in their interest (according to your "common sense"), then why did we need labor laws to require overtime pay?
Click to expand...

To provide a level playing field of competition to make sure that every employer does it. Otherwise, the "fly-by-nighters" looking for a quick buck would have an unfair advantage on those in it for the long haul.
Click to expand...

Oh, so it's now both in their best interest to pay overtime over 8 hours and gives them an unfair advantage if they don't? That is some "common sense" indeed. :roll:
Click to expand...

Did you sleep through your business and econ classes?

Oh no, I forgot, you're always an obtuse tool like this, letting your ideology cloud you from understanding even the most obvious concepts... like the difference between short-term and long-term business plans...
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: senseamp
Riiight, so business is what gave us 8 hour work weeks and overtime? Are you telling me that businesses actually want you to only work 8 hours and want to pay you overtime if you work more, and aren't doing it because of laws enacted with support of labor?
Other countries seem to have gotten 8 hour work weeks and more affordable health care without Ford and Kaiser.
Click to expand...

It is in their interest to attract more and better workers. Common sense and the historical facts posted by Vic owns you again.
Click to expand...

Common sense is something you wouldn't know if it smacked you in the face.
If they are paying overtime because it's in their interest (according to your "common sense"), then why did we need labor laws to require overtime pay?
Click to expand...

To provide a level playing field of competition to make sure that every employer does it. Otherwise, the "fly-by-nighters" looking for a quick buck would have an unfair advantage on those in it for the long haul.
Click to expand...

Oh, so it's now both in their best interest to pay overtime over 8 hours and gives them an unfair advantage if they don't? That is some "common sense" indeed. :roll:
Click to expand...

Did you sleep through your business and econ classes?

Oh no, I forgot, you're always an obtuse tool like this, letting your ideology cloud you from understanding even the most obvious concepts... like the difference between short-term and long-term business plans...
Click to expand...

So let me get some of this "common sense" of yours. It's in best interest of long term companies to pay overtime?
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
So let me get some of this "common sense" of yours. It's in best interest of long term companies to pay overtime?
Click to expand...
If it wasn't, overtime pay wouldn't exist. 40 hour work-weeks wouldn't exist. Etc. Who do you think runs this country?

Let me repeat: it is in business' interests to have a healthy, educated workforce.

Yaknow, I could just as easily be an obtuse tool like you and start questioning your "common sense" that businesses want an unhealthy, uneducated, overworked, and underpaid workforce.
But the stupidity of that speaks for itself, now doesn't it? Such a workforce would be unproductive, unskilled, have high turnover, and be incapable of consuming its own products.
 
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