Did Cheney/CIA plan to use Blackwater death squads to assasinate abroad?

[fallout man]

Blackwater "hired for CIA plan"

The CIA hired contractors from the US private security firm Blackwater as part of a secret programme to track and kill top al-Qaeda figures, reports say.

The New York Times quotes current and ex-government officials as saying Blackwater helped the CIA with planning, training and surveillance.

Several million dollars were spent on the programme but no militants were caught or captured, the report says.

Blackwater staff were used to guard US government personnel in Iraq from 2003.

But they were accused of using excessive force on a number of occasions, including the killing of 17 civilians in Baghdad in 2007.

The North Carolina-based firm has not had its licence to operate in Iraq renewed.

The company, which was founded by Erik Prince, has since been re-named Xe.

Lethal authority'

The New York Times reports that the CIA did not have a formal contract with Blackwater for the programme to locate and kill senior members of al-Qaeda.

Instead, they had individual agreements with top officials in the firm, the paper goes on to say.

It is not clear whether the US spy agency planned to use Blackwater contractors to actually capture and kill the militants, or just help with the training and surveillance of the programme, the report says.

Meanwhile, the Washington Post reports that the assassination programme was initially launched in 2001 as a CIA-led effort to kill or capture top al-Qaeda figures using the agency's paramilitary forces.

But in 2004, after briefly terminating the programme, the CIA decided to revive it using outside contractors, the Post quotes officials as saying.

Leon Panetta - who became director of the CIA under President Obama's administration - is said to have learnt about the secret programme in June.

The next day he called an emergency meeting with congressional intelligence committees to tell them about its existence, and to say that it was being cancelled.

The New York Times quotes officials as saying the fact that the CIA used an outside company for the programme was a major reason Mr Panetta became alarmed and called the meeting.

Although some controversial work, including the interrogation of prisoners, has been outsourced in recent years, the fact that outsiders were used in a programme with "lethal authority" raised concerns about accountability in covert operations, officials were quoted as saying.

The House of Representatives' intelligence committee is investigating whether the CIA broke the law by not informing Congress about the programme for eight years.

Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein, chairwoman of the Senate intelligence committee, said last month that Mr Panetta told Congress former Vice-President Dick Cheney was behind the secrecy.

But some Republicans accuse the Democrats of trying to make political capital from the situation.

"I think there was a little more drama and intrigue than was warranted," Representative Peter Hoekstra, the most senior Republican on the House intelligence committee, told the Times.

I think this is pretty interesting. Blackwater has been brought in to "supplement" security in our current quagmires, but I think Cheney was fully aware of and intended to use their real potential as an "off the books--off the hook" personal army.

The best part is that there were no formal contracts to spend taxpayer money on these hired goons outside of the "accepted" war zones. Instead, Dick and his Prince shook hands. I wonder which one gave the pat on the ass, and which one received it.

 

[OCGuy]

Mercs are mercs. Obama still uses them. Obama is also still assasinating Al-Queda in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And I agree with Obama on this policy 100%.

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: OCguy
Mercs are mercs. Obama still uses them. Obama is also still assasinating Al-Queda in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And I agree with Obama on this policy 100%.

But don't you think that sharing incredibly sensitive WoT (OCO) intel with a rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS is a potentially serious clusterfuck?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: OCguy
Mercs are mercs. Obama still uses them. Obama is also still assasinating Al-Queda in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And I agree with Obama on this policy 100%.

But don't you think that sharing incredibly sensitive WoT (OCO) intel with a rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS is a potentially serious clusterfuck?

Oh absolutely. Any real assasinations should be done by CIA/Delta Force. I dont agree with hiring private contractors for hits, but it does not shock me one bit.

If you look at the history of the USA, and most other countries for that matter, we have done some things that do not coincide with that rosey picture that gets painted in US History.

It doesnt make these things right, or even legal, but you have to get some perspective as to what happens in wartime.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: OCguy
Mercs are mercs. Obama still uses them. Obama is also still assasinating Al-Queda in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And I agree with Obama on this policy 100%.

But don't you think that sharing incredibly sensitive WoT (OCO) intel with a rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS is a potentially serious clusterfuck?

As much as I don't care for BW, or how they represented America in Iraq at times, during their time there they were privy to some pretty heavy intel, and missions. They aren't exactly a "rag-tag team of scrappy mercs".

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: xj0hnx

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: OCguy
Mercs are mercs. Obama still uses them. Obama is also still assasinating Al-Queda in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And I agree with Obama on this policy 100%.

But don't you think that sharing incredibly sensitive WoT (OCO) intel with a rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS is a potentially serious clusterfuck?

As much as I don't care for BW, or how they represented America in Iraq at times, during their time there they were privy to some pretty heavy intel, and missions. They aren't exactly a "rag-tag team of scrappy mercs".

Uh, guard-duties aside, do you really think they should have (or have had) access to CIA/NSA level intel in the War on Terra'? I know that a few bad apples can spoil a whole bunch; but the picture painted of some of Blackwater's drunk-ass roid-raging finest is not the kind of picture I'd wrap sensitive intelligence in.

The only reason the Cheney would have done this, in my opinion, is the legal ambiguity of having mercenaries doing the dirty work. Are we so short on special forces that we have to include mercenaries in what might be potential international incidents?

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: fallout man
But don't you think that sharing incredibly sensitive WoT (OCO) intel with a rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS is a potentially serious clusterfuck?

Most of their U.S. employees hold/held very high security clearances. In fact, beyond a few bad apples in the bunch, calling all of them a "rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS" is an insult to the entire SOF community. Many BW contractors were, at one point in their careers, some of our best and brightest soldiers. They simply followed the money; which you can't really blame them given the nature of their work and the "scrappy" paychecks Uncle Sam dishes out to its soldiers.

I've known and worked with many fine and respectable mercenaries.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: xj0hnx

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: OCguy
Mercs are mercs. Obama still uses them. Obama is also still assasinating Al-Queda in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And I agree with Obama on this policy 100%.

But don't you think that sharing incredibly sensitive WoT (OCO) intel with a rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS is a potentially serious clusterfuck?

As much as I don't care for BW, or how they represented America in Iraq at times, during their time there they were privy to some pretty heavy intel, and missions. They aren't exactly a "rag-tag team of scrappy mercs".

Uh, guard-duties aside, do you really think they should have (or have had) access to CIA/NSA level intel in the War on Terra'? I know that a few bad apples can spoil a whole bunch; but the picture painted of some of Blackwater's drunk-ass roid-raging finest is not the kind of picture I'd wrap sensitive intelligence in.

The only reason the Cheney would have done this, in my opinion, is the legal ambiguity of having mercenaries doing the dirty work. Are we so short on special forces that we have to include mercenaries in what might be potential international incidents?

Skins fielded that one, I'm not even going to dignify your dribble with more insight.

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: fallout man
But don't you think that sharing incredibly sensitive WoT (OCO) intel with a rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS is a potentially serious clusterfuck?

Most of their U.S. employees hold/held very high security clearances. In fact, calling all of them "scrappy MERCS" is an insult to the entire SOF community. Many contractors were, at one point in their careers, some of our best and brightest soldiers. They simply followed the money; which you can't really blame them given the nature of their work and the "scrappy" paychecks Uncle Sam dishes out to its soldiers.

I know that many (if not most) of the BW guys are ex-SF, so I understand what you mean. My problem with this is that regardless of their background, BW is NOT CIA or NSA. Many of them are very qualified guns for hire, but there was much more to the operation than being a highly qualified gun for hire.

Maybe I'm naive, but I think that such things should be left to the people who are highly qualified and loyal to our country above all--even the almighty paycheck.

No wonder we haven't caught Osama. He could very well be giving out a better paycheck.

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: xj0hnx


Skins fielded that one, I'm not even going to dignify your dribble with more insight.

What is this "driblle" and "more insight" of which you speak, precious?

 

[colonel]

I heard from a buddy coming from "Green Zone" Irak, this guys dont play by the rules, they dont follow chain of command with the regular army.

 

[theflyingpig]

Who cares who they used. Our enemies must be slaughtered without mercy, and the best way to do that is with unaccountable mercenaries. This so-called investigation will be forgotten. The slaughter will continue. Nothing will change. Everyone knows this.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: fallout man
Maybe I'm naive

That you are.

Have you ever worked with the NSA or CIA? They have just as many contractors working there as anywhere else in the USG, if not more. There is absolutely no difference between a BW employee having a clearance and a Northrup Grumman employee having a clearance... or a Lockheed employee... or a Booz-Allen employee... or Batelle... or L3... or SAIC... or... or...

The vetting process and requirements are generally the same for everyone. Hell, as former SOF personnel, I'd trust many of them more than 99% of the contractors sitting in D.C.

A few of them are cowboys, for sure, but I've known and worked alongside many fine and respectable "mercenaries" whom I'd go into battle with any time.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: OCguy
Mercs are mercs. Obama still uses them. Obama is also still assasinating Al-Queda in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And I agree with Obama on this policy 100%.

jesus christ. Is that ripping sound the fabric of the universe? ocguy agreeing with obama? Scary.

 

[Craig234]

Our efforts to get (back) a stable situation in the region (like the leftist, secular government we helped de-stabilize in Afghanistan) should use less assassination.

What are we really trying to do? The real agenda seems to involve oil and our global economic competition with other nations who need the oil.

IMO we'd be better off strengthening our efforts to really build stability and do more on the political front, and create fewer enemies by trying to take the easy route with violence.

It can't change course overnight, decades have brought the current situation, but we can take a new direction. The people in the region have suffered enough.

The far right religious groups there don't have popular support - the Taliban have never hit 10% public support in Afghanistan - and can be controlled in better ways.

Our usual approach seems to be to treat the corrupt as our first choice, as long as they'll make a deal with us, and to treat 'good' governments as the enemy.

But until we recognize the stench of our own excrement as we cause and spread volence for our own interests, we'll be wroning man people.

It's something when a 'fair' approach for these resources is seen as 'naive' and the violent competition for them is seen as the only 'reasonable' approach.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: fallout man
But don't you think that sharing incredibly sensitive WoT (OCO) intel with a rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS is a potentially serious clusterfuck?

Most of their U.S. employees hold/held very high security clearances. In fact, beyond a few bad apples in the bunch, calling all of them a "rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS" is an insult to the entire SOF community. Many BW contractors were, at one point in their careers, some of our best and brightest soldiers. They simply followed the money; which you can't really blame them given the nature of their work and the "scrappy" paychecks Uncle Sam dishes out to its soldiers.

I've known and worked with many fine and respectable mercenaries.

This is a load of crap.

Why should these guys make $100k a year when we have real patriots serving their country in the armed forces.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: fallout man
But don't you think that sharing incredibly sensitive WoT (OCO) intel with a rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS is a potentially serious clusterfuck?

Most of their U.S. employees hold/held very high security clearances. In fact, beyond a few bad apples in the bunch, calling all of them a "rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS" is an insult to the entire SOF community. Many BW contractors were, at one point in their careers, some of our best and brightest soldiers. They simply followed the money; which you can't really blame them given the nature of their work and the "scrappy" paychecks Uncle Sam dishes out to its soldiers.

I've known and worked with many fine and respectable mercenaries.

This is a load of crap.

Why should these guys make $100k a year when we have real patriots serving their country in the armed forces.

I'm sure it has something to do with the fact that many of them make even more than twice that amount.

Do you personally know any current/former BW employees? Ask them.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig
Who cares who they used. Our enemies must be slaughtered without mercy, and the best way to do that is with unaccountable mercenaries. This so-called investigation will be forgotten. The slaughter will continue. Nothing will change. Everyone knows this.

We must continue our war against Eastasia (or was it Eurasia?)

 

[rudder]

I would rather the government use blackwater type death squads than predator drones. Less likely to have innocent bystanders wiped out.

 

[ZeGermans]

Mercenaries are scum

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: fallout man
But don't you think that sharing incredibly sensitive WoT (OCO) intel with a rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS is a potentially serious clusterfuck?

Most of their U.S. employees hold/held very high security clearances. In fact, beyond a few bad apples in the bunch, calling all of them a "rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS" is an insult to the entire SOF community. Many BW contractors were, at one point in their careers, some of our best and brightest soldiers. They simply followed the money; which you can't really blame them given the nature of their work and the "scrappy" paychecks Uncle Sam dishes out to its soldiers.

I've known and worked with many fine and respectable mercenaries.

While I dislike strongly using mercenaries at anytime, I won't condemn the personnel globally. But what I bolded above is troubling. Once they go "for money", where is there allegiance? The company or our country? They aren't always the same. That's the problem.

The companies may not have the same interests

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat

Originally posted by: theflyingpig
Who cares who they used. Our enemies must be slaughtered without mercy, and the best way to do that is with unaccountable mercenaries. This so-called investigation will be forgotten. The slaughter will continue. Nothing will change. Everyone knows this.

We must continue our war against Eastasia (or was it Eurasia?)

Hopefully not all of eurasia. We'd have to have every other man, woman and child in the military. And the rest would be producing war materials (and babies since this would take decades).

I had to look it up. eurasia = europe + asia (which includes that cesspool known as the middle east). It covers 10% of earth's surface and 36% of the land area. It has 4.8 billion people - 71% of the total world population.


And, hopefully we're not going to start in on east asia. east asia = mainland china + hong kong + japan + macau + mongolia + korea + taiwan.

(Just for fun, before you look it up, make a guess as to whether vietnam is north or south of mainland china.)


The closest geographical region I could find that you're probably referring to would be "the greater middle east". This includes countries from north-western africa to pakistan.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: fallout man
But don't you think that sharing incredibly sensitive WoT (OCO) intel with a rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS is a potentially serious clusterfuck?

Most of their U.S. employees hold/held very high security clearances. In fact, beyond a few bad apples in the bunch, calling all of them a "rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS" is an insult to the entire SOF community. Many BW contractors were, at one point in their careers, some of our best and brightest soldiers. They simply followed the money; which you can't really blame them given the nature of their work and the "scrappy" paychecks Uncle Sam dishes out to its soldiers.

I've known and worked with many fine and respectable mercenaries.

While I dislike strongly using mercenaries at anytime, I won't condemn the personnel globally. But what I bolded above is troubling. Once they go "for money", where is there allegiance? The company or our country? They aren't always the same. That's the problem.

The companies may not have the same interests

I can only interpret from my own experiance, but a lot of people in the military really like the work, and serving their country, but the military doesn't pay that well. Quite a few see it as an opportunity to continue to do what they love, for the country they love, but with a better quality of life. Sure, there's some that don't care who is signing their checks, but for the most part their patriotism is quite inline.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: fallout man
But don't you think that sharing incredibly sensitive WoT (OCO) intel with a rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS is a potentially serious clusterfuck?

Most of their U.S. employees hold/held very high security clearances. In fact, beyond a few bad apples in the bunch, calling all of them a "rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS" is an insult to the entire SOF community. Many BW contractors were, at one point in their careers, some of our best and brightest soldiers. They simply followed the money; which you can't really blame them given the nature of their work and the "scrappy" paychecks Uncle Sam dishes out to its soldiers.

I've known and worked with many fine and respectable mercenaries.

While I dislike strongly using mercenaries at anytime, I won't condemn the personnel globally. But what I bolded above is troubling. Once they go "for money", where is there allegiance? The company or our country? They aren't always the same. That's the problem.

The companies may not have the same interests

Hollywood productions might have you believe it's the company -- the last season of 24 comes to mind -- but that can't be said of most of the contractors I have known and worked with over the years.

For most, their loyalty is definitely still to our country. Perhaps they simply didn't want to spend 20 years doing it -- afterward having nothing to point to and call their own -- and they wanted a nice home to come back to with a nest-egg in the bank for the kids' college funds.

I sorta solved the same problem by switching to the Reserves myself. That way, i can still make a decent wage whenever I'm at home. But, the thought of becoming a deployed contractor has certainly crossed my mind a thousand times, for the added money, and I'll probably end up doing so once my commitment to the Reserves is finished. Would that make me any less of the the patriot I am today?

Now, if they would bring back a soldier's right to pillage and plunder, maybe this wouldn't be an issue... lol Or, better yet, QUADRUPLE a soldier's pay while they're deployed. That would probably do the trick too.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: fallout man
But don't you think that sharing incredibly sensitive WoT (OCO) intel with a rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS is a potentially serious clusterfuck?

Most of their U.S. employees hold/held very high security clearances. In fact, beyond a few bad apples in the bunch, calling all of them a "rag-tag team of scrappy MERCS" is an insult to the entire SOF community. Many BW contractors were, at one point in their careers, some of our best and brightest soldiers. They simply followed the money; which you can't really blame them given the nature of their work and the "scrappy" paychecks Uncle Sam dishes out to its soldiers.

I've known and worked with many fine and respectable mercenaries.

While I dislike strongly using mercenaries at anytime, I won't condemn the personnel globally. But what I bolded above is troubling. Once they go "for money", where is there allegiance? The company or our country? They aren't always the same. That's the problem.

The companies may not have the same interests

Hollywood productions might have you believe it's the company -- the last season of 24 comes to mind -- but that can't be said of most of the contractors I have known and worked with over the years.

For most, their loyalty is definitely still to our country. Perhaps they simply didn't want to spend 20 years doing it -- afterward having nothing to point to and call their own -- and they wanted a nice home to come back to with a nest-egg in the bank for the kids' college funds.

I sorta solved the same problem by switching to the Reserves myself. That way, i can still make a decent wage whenever I'm at home. But, the thought of becoming a deployed contractor has certainly crossed my mind a thousand times, for the added money, and I'll probably end up doing so once my commitment to the Reserves is finished. Would that make me any less of the the patriot I am today?

Now, if they would bring back a soldier's right to pillage and plunder, maybe this wouldn't be an issue... lol Or, better yet, QUADRUPLE a soldier's pay while they're deployed. That would probably do the trick too.

I think the thought cross a LOT of soldiers minds, especially when deployed. Seeing BW rolling some pretty comfy gear in AC'ed Explorers, with a M240 mounted out the back wearing baseball caps...damn, or was that CIA? who knows. Being deployed though seems almost to at least double, if not triple the pay, combat pay, and it's tax free, but yea, it's still nothing compared to what the private contractors get, hell a buddy of mine was making more than me while I was deployed as a gateguard in Kosovo lol.