Did BMW cheapen it's brand by introducing a new cheaper 3series model?

[Fritzo]

"Cars for hire are the fastest cars ... in the world"

/Clarkson

...and much like Carkson, I noticed the brakes were crap, the car flopped around like a tuna in corners, and the interior looks about 10 years out of date. The engine rumbled nicely though 🙂

 

[ElFenix]

Here, a 1.6 litre engine in a mid-size family sedan doesn't make sense because there's no tax reason for the buyers to want it.

ford fusion says hi

I will say against my case that chasing the performance/$ in new cars pretty quickly ends you up at the Dodge Avenger SE V6 + 6Spd for $16,400. Which I think we can all agree probably isn't a great car 🙂

truth. then again, it's really hard to find a bad car these days. even the avenger is pretty decent and practically amazing compared to stuff just a decade or 15 years ago

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/04/review-2013-dodge-avenger-se/

 

[Zenmervolt]

ford fusion says hi

Fair. I was thinking of the ~100 hp 1.6 liter engines that abounded in European mid-size cars during the last couple of decades purely as ways to have a car available to sell in a particular tax bracket. You couldn't sell a mid-size car with an engine like that in the US. At least, not in the late '90s/early '00s.

The Fusion's 178 hp/184 ft-lb turbocharged 1.6 liter is another matter.

That said, the point stands. The numerous engine options in European cars are not the result of any sort of attempt to give drivers meaningful "choice" but rather as a means of having an offering in each tax bracket. Since it cost money to certify a powertrain for US emissions manufacturers wisely decided not to waste money on certifying powertrains that had no reason for existence other than to skirt Eurpoean tax regulations.

ZV

 

[sgrinavi]

....
The 3, even though it's larger than it used to be, is still fairly cramped/small/compact. Backseat just like the A4, TSX, ILX, etc .. small. I like them, but someone sitting behind me in a 3-series better be an amputee, because I have to have the seat all the way back to clear my knees past the steering wheel. With cars the size of the 5 and the Accord, that's not necessarily the case, along with a larger trunk, more elbow room, etc.

3 series cramped? The Accord has 38" of rear leg room and the 3 has 36" - A co-worker has the new Accord, I've been in the back seat a couple times, sure it's slightly larger than our 328, but it's not cramped and I would say the seats are more comfortable in the BMW.

 

[Arkaign]

3 series cramped? The Accord has 38" of rear leg room and the 3 has 36" - A co-worker has the new Accord, I've been in the back seat a couple times, sure it's slightly larger than our 328, but it's not cramped and I would say the seats are more comfortable in the BMW.

Well, I'm 6'4", and in a 3 (love them of course), I have to put the seat back all the way, which pretty much destroys the rear seat's usability outside of transporting amputees. Not even babies can sit in car seats behind me in their massive seats lol.

With the new Accords, if I put the seat all the way back, it's actually too far. A few inches forward from full-back is perfect, and that leaves an adult room to have their legs behind me if they sit mostly upright. That's been true in a 2012 sedan and a 2013 coupe.

Not a knock on the 3 by any means, but it's a 'compact executive car' by their own description, and it feels it. I also don't really love how the center console/armrest section wraps so tightly, makes it harder for me to get my right leg comfortable in one. I'd totally own one and be happy with it, but it is a fairly small vehicle overall.

See how there isn't much room for the right leg to angle outwards to the right? That's a PITA for guys like me with really long legs.

Not the easiest thing to tell from pictures, but that Accord gives me miles more room to get my legs comfy.

🙂

 

[sgrinavi]

Well, I'm 6'4".....

Ah, I guess that couple inches makes a difference at those upper altitudes 🙂

 

[Insomniator]

If its a great driving RWD car then I'm fine with it, doesn't cheapen anything.

Also not everyone that buys them are douche status attention whores. BMW's ARE really nice cars. Lets say I had 20k to spend on a car, why would I get a new corolla instead of a used 3 series? I'd prob choose new BMW's over new MB's as well, they drive completely differently. These 320's may be marketed towards younger middle class males but that doesn't mean its automatically a douche car.

 

[Arkaign]

If its a great driving RWD car then I'm fine with it, doesn't cheapen anything.

Also not everyone that buys them are douche status attention whores. BMW's ARE really nice cars. Lets say I had 20k to spend on a car, why would I get a new corolla instead of a used 3 series? I'd prob choose new BMW's over new MB's as well, they drive completely differently. These 320's may be marketed towards younger middle class males but that doesn't mean its automatically a douche car.

Warranty, lower insurance, zero miles, cheaper to operate, cheaper to maintain?

Don't get me wrong, I love BMWs almost universally, but I don't recommend used ones to people unless they fully know what they're getting into. A $20k used 335i 6MT with 90k miles on it, no warranty, and 20mpg combined is a super fun car, but probably not the wisest financial decision for a young family for example. Just the first time they go to buy appropriate tires for the 335 they will feel the sting.

And man I hate Corollas lol, how dare you put me in the position to defend them 😀 I just think that sometimes people buy more car than they can afford.

 

[ElFenix]

3 series cramped? The Accord has 38" of rear leg room and the 3 has 36" - A co-worker has the new Accord, I've been in the back seat a couple times, sure it's slightly larger than our 328, but it's not cramped and I would say the seats are more comfortable in the BMW.

it's actually 38.5 to 35.1, so that's well over 3 inches more. it's almost 4 inches in practice because the accord has an additional half inch of driver's leg room.

 

[Midwayman]

depends what you want to spend the money on.

i think if you are a real enthusiast the 320i offers a really compelling value since basically it allows you to not take stuff you dont want. also the sport pack on the 320i is a really great value at $1300. it comes with the steering wheel from the $3850 m-sport line 328i and the suspension from the $2500+ sport or m-sport line.

the base prices are 32500 and 36800 these days. so if you wanted a bmw 3 series with a sport suspension (it is like a totally different car on the F30) the minimum you are spending for a 328 is 39300 and on the 320i $33800. $5500 or so, so a decent amount of cash for some people

its not that hard to get a bmw at $500 over invoice or even invoice. with incentives you can get it down to maybe $31-32k + tax for a 320i + sport pack. and it probably realistically has 200-210hp, plus free maintenance

the cheapest V6 accord invoices for about $28k. probably gets you to 60 1 second faster and its bigger and has "leather" which in cars this range is of dubious quality.

not really that obvious a choice , its close enough that you could choose either and the choice would not be a bad one.

Yah, but the accord will have a ton more features at the same price, cost less to run, and have better resale. You have to put a pretty high premium on the nameplate or handling in order for the BMW to look like a good buy. If I were cross shopping an is250 or something I could make a better case for the BMW. I know last time I seriously shopped BMWs I just couldn't justify their premium. The real killer is that their base price includes nothing. Its another 3-5k just to be to the base level of most cars equipment wise, and then you start adding things that should be options.

 

[Fritzo]

Yah, but the accord will have a ton more features at the same price, cost less to run, and have better resale. You have to put a pretty high premium on the nameplate or handling in order for the BMW to look like a good buy. If I were cross shopping an is250 or something I could make a better case for the BMW. I know last time I seriously shopped BMWs I just couldn't justify their premium. The real killer is that their base price includes nothing. Its another 3-5k just to be to the base level of most cars equipment wise, and then you start adding things that should be options.

Simple test: tell the chick at the bar what you drive 😀