did adam and eve have navels ?

[syzygy]

yeah, the original and greatest flame war ever.

characterized by some as the 'worst theological dispute ever'. its definitely
the oldest dispute, dating to the birth of the hebrew bible. the literate classes early on understood the implications of this one unanswered and utterly ignored
aspect of humanity's parents. the arguement is summarized as follows :

'if adam and eve did not have navels, then they were not perfect human beings. On the other hand, if they had navels, then the navels would imply a birth they never experienced'


many of you may be aware of this arguement and its refutations from both sides of
the aisle. it has been a staple in sunday schools, theological seminaries, scholastic
academies, papal congresses, and now atot

so, what do you think ? belly button or belly button-less ?

 

[geno]

woah - I'm not touching this one with a 20ft. pole....

 

[shiner]

Well....according to the Bible they were created and not born...therefore no belly button. Just makes sense to me.....then again I'm not some theological blowhard. Like Jessica Hahn for example....

 

[hubbs]

OH BOY. I could care less. But if this gets heated up I'm outta here

 

[SuperSix]

Umm.. they never existed - hence no argument

 

[Pretender]

lets see, navel means imperfect + born from another human.
no navel means not born, and perfect.

I don't know the bible, but weren't they supposedly perfect. And supposedly created by god? So then no navel would be the obvious solution.

 

[Imaginer]

What if they did have navels and they were created but created in a different way???

 

[AppleTalking]

What if questions like this were not meant for people to answer or to understand? Like the whole creationism vs. evolution debate. Since God is all-powerful, would it not be possible to bend the rules a little bit.

Religion is based on faith. If you believe then you have no need to worry about these kinds of things.

Nick

 

[Wallydraigle]

You should make a poll. I don't know. I'm guessing that they did not, but I wasn't there so don't quote me.

 

[jhu]

which adam and which eve?

 

[cmdavid]

nope.. no belly buttons...

 

[syzygy]

don't just stare at their belly buttons (or lack thereof)

as i understand the arguement, it extends further; to their hair, fingernails,
bones and teeth and many other features that bear evidence of previous growth.
these beings appeared fully formed. fine. but how can they bear obvious
evidence of previous growth ?

their physical details were in essence born before they were. capish ?

how so ?

by further extension, you also need to ask about tree rings, the growth marks on
a rhinoceros horn, geological strata that had to accumulate before they were created,
and on and on.

 

[atom]

I think so. Didn't the bible say Eve had a belly button ring?

*Pictures naked chick with strategically placed leaf and belly button ring*

Oooh yeah.

 

[jaydee]

<< 'if adam and eve had a navel, then they were not perfect beings. on the other hand,
if they had navels, then the navels would imply a birth they never experienced.' >>



I don't get it how they are imperfect beings with no navel (I assume thats what you meant, you need to fix that).

 

[syzygy]

oops. corrected. thanks. makes sense now

the quote hails from the book of the posting's title 'did adam and
eve have navels ?' by martin gardner (2000).

excellent read. layman's book.

 

[Mikal]

Where's the evidence that they even existed, man? Sorry, ancient books don't count. Besides, every culture has its' own creation myth. How you gonna pick one over the other? And why pick one at all??? Peace!

(This has been another logic assault. If you are unarmed, please take a seat now.)

 

[Azraele]

That question is like the tootsie pop question.....the world will never know.

 

[Mikal]

By the way, Syzygy, Martin Gardner writes some great stuff!! Make sure you check out &quot;Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science&quot; or his books of columns from Skeptical Inquirer.

Also, James Randi's &quot;Flim Flam&quot; and &quot;The Faith Healers.&quot;

Have fun!

 

[syzygy]

i'm not conceding they actually existed. personally i think they are pure myth. but
philosophically the arguement transcends the literal interpretation and reaches the
question of god's nature, as a supposedly omniscient entity.

why would there be vestiges and real evidence of prior growth in each and every
aspect of the created physical world, if the physical world itself did not exist
until that point that god willed everything into being. ok ?

 

[shiner]

The reason I suppose that Adam &amp; Eve would have hair, fingernails, etc...is because God created them in his own image.

Of course the geological sutff is a whole different story. One of the things that keeps me on the side of evolution.

 

[Azoth]

This would be a hard to fathom question, and any answer could make one appear to be a religious radical.

Seeing that we are referring to Adam and Eve, so in sense are in a mildly Biblical discussion, one would in a sense assume that responses that relate to the Bible would be somewhat accepted. It is said that God made Adam and Eve in his own image, which would make one assume that God was a masculine humaniod of sorts, however the Bible does not state that any offspring birthed by Adam and Eve after their banishment from the garden would be in the same form.

The Bible states that Adam was created from a dirt like substance, and Eve from one of the rib bones belonging to Adam, or essentially a clone of Adam with a female dominant trait rather than the common male dominant. In being created one would have to assume that they did not have navels.

Now, if Adam and Eve did not have navels, it has been stated that they would not be perfect human beings, however if they did not have navels, then the navel did not appear until after Adam and Eve were cursed and banished from the Garden of Eden and had offspring. That may in itself make the navel a curse, or a flaw in the current human populance, as all were cursed in a Biblical sense when a direct commandment by the creator of Adam and Eve was broken when Eve partook of the forbidden fruit.

*** Too many words to be two cents worth ***

 

[FreeFrag]

Hmmm.....If they were perfect than they wouldn't have taken the apple, eh?

 

[SuperSix]

<< The reason I suppose that Adam &amp; Eve would have hair, fingernails, etc...is because God created them in his own image.

Of course the geological sutff is a whole different story. One of the things that keeps me on the side of evolution. >>




Sooo.. a &quot;god&quot; that has features and abilities that just HAPPEN to be suited for use on our planet? (Gravity, legs, etc...) In other words, creationism is bunk, evolution makes sense.

 

[Noriaki]

Well since they didn't exist there's no where to put the belly button, so I'll have to go with no belly button.




<< Umm.. they never existed - hence no argument >>

Damn you SuperSix beat me to it.

BTW...shouldn't that be TurboSix? It's a Turbo not a Supercharger isn't it?

 

[RossGr]

This is the a perfect example of the ridiculous problems that come from litteral interpetations of the bible. Of the posts so far, the one about god being a male humanoid comes close to being the most ludicrous post I have ever seen on this board. So you really think of god as a white haired old man? I say white haired because, well what other color would it be? LOL

Back in my younger days I was once told I looked like christ.

Christ.~^ I am 6'3&quot; tall and anglo as hell. At the time I had a light colored beard and long light brown hair. Much like you see in the common pictures of christ. I hope none of you think that is a accurate representation.~^ Christ, whom without a doubt exited was probalbly more Arab then English, ie short, dark skinned and Black hair. Where did they get that phoney picture from any way.

People I do not much care what your concept of god is but can not we all agree that we have been given an wondrous inquiring brain. Do you not suppose that it was intended to be used? Please use your god given talents to examine your beliefs. IF they fail the muster of common sense, reconsider them.