Diagnosing a Video-related Failure

[ArtShapiro]

The patient is a tiny 2500K machine, Intel DH67CF mini-ITX MB built into an Antec 300-150 case. It uses the inbuilt Intel graphics. It's using an SSD.

Today, after waking it from the nighttime hibernation, both monitors were black. I restarted it and got an Intel beep code indicating a video failure. But it obviously booted, judging from the flashing disk light.

I was able to remote desktop to it, and ran the Intel processor diagnostics. They reported no sign of the inbuilt graphics. But otherwise the machine was behaving normally.

So I sadly did some web research to find a video card small enough to fit into that Antec case, and ordered it. I shut down the machine from a command prompt.

Now I can't even boot the machine - and of course can't see what's going on. The fact that the machine immediately shuts down upon pushing the power button tells me that it's sitting in the BIOS screen. There was no change in behavior when going to another SSD, normally unconnected, that I keep on that machine for emergency use.

I'm not sure whether I have a CPU failure, a motherboard failure, or something completely unexpected. Any wild guesses out there?

 

[Virgorising]

Doubt it's the patient's chip, might be its board; but could also be a RAM issue. What is yr ram configuration? And, have you tried the one stick at a time dance?

 

[ArtShapiro]

What is yr ram configuration? And, have you tried the one stick at a time dance?

Two 4gig premium GSkill sticks. Although I have the machine here in front of me at work, it will take partial disassembly to get to the ram - this is a SMALL case.

As an aside, it seemed to boot from a bootable CD, and refuses from either SSD. I'll try the RAM experimentation later, but this may end up waiting for the new video card to arrive before I can really see what's going on.

 

[Virgorising]

Two 4gig premium GSkill sticks. Although I have the machine here in front of me at work, it will take partial disassembly to get to the ram - this is a SMALL case.

As an aside, it seemed to boot from a bootable CD, and refuses from either SSD. I'll try the RAM experimentation later, but this may end up waiting for the new video card to arrive before I can really see what's going on.

Thanks for the info! See, this is why all my desktops are huge ATXes I can fit into.

Tell me, how old is the PSU?

I think given you have integrated graphics, you should totally have the option to use them, and should not have to do discreet.

If my chip had them, trust me, I would not have the GPU I must have.

 

[ArtShapiro]

See, this is why all my desktops are huge ATXes I can fit into.

Tell me, how old is the PSU?

I think given you have integrated graphics, you should totally have the option to use them, and should not have to do discreet..

I see your point, but having lived forever with huge boxes, there's a delightful elegance to something smaller than a shoebox that one can carry with one hand.

Memory experimentation - swapping, isolating one at a time, did not affect the problem.

The PSU comes with the Antec case, which is a couple months under two years old. It's 150 watts, which seems small, but is far more than needed to run this machine, as confirmed with a wattmeter. I don't have a psu tester. Disconnecting everything but one SSD did not change the symptoms.

 

[Virgorising]

I see your point, but having lived forever with huge boxes, there's a delightful elegance to something smaller than a shoebox that one can carry with one hand.

And, I see yr point too! We are each unique, so I may always be moved to the biggest configurations re desktops and only want my phones to be teeny (tho not too teeny).

Good you tried the stick dance, sorry it accomplished nothing.

Thanks for sharing re the age & specs of yr PSU, am sure it is adequate.

Tell me, have you monitored yr temps recently?

Forgive my ignorance, but did you build this system? And, for how long was it working normally before the video issue presented?

I dunno....sure, you could spend the money on a PCI express card and see if that puts things right, but again, you should not have to. Plus, it would also stress yr PSU.

 

[ArtShapiro]

Forgive my ignorance, but did you build this system? And, for how long was it working normally before the video issue presented?

Yes - I built it and it's been running without incident for approaching two years. Boots up 8.1 in 5-6 seconds; generally has been a trouble-free pleasure.

I have no temp monitoring software installed, but this is failing after a total cooldown.

Not being able to see anything really makes isolating problems difficult. Happily everything is backed up on WHS, so I know I haven't lost anything, but it won't be fun living off my laptops for a while.

 

[Virgorising]

Yes - I built it and it's been running without incident for approaching two years. Boots up 8.1 in 5-6 seconds; generally has been a trouble-free pleasure.

Not being able to see anything really makes isolating problems difficult. Happily everything is backed up on WHS, so I know I haven't lost anything, but it won't be fun living off my laptops for a while.

Thanks for the additional info, I thought U built it, but needed confirmation.

Again, pls run a temps monitoring app and report the results. Even old school Speed Fan would do.

Tell me, how much trouble would reseating the chip be?

Can you eyeball all of the board for signs of cap bulging, etc?

I admire yr moderated frustration re not being able to see anything impediment. You are very grounded!!!!

 

[ArtShapiro]

Again, pls run a temps monitoring app and report the results. Even old school Speed Fan would do.

Tell me, how much trouble would reseating the chip be?

Can you eyeball all of the board for signs of cap bulging, etc?

Thanks for the ongoing discourse!

I can't run a temp app because the machine isn't booting, period.

No sign of any bulging or oozing caps although it's possible I can't see everything until I pull the fan. I guess I could reseat/re-Arctic Silver the CPU, but that will have to wait until tonight.

I thought that by this vintage - ~2012 - the legendary cap issues that killed many a machine had gone away.

I'd thought about purchasing a USB video setup for the proverbial rainy day - and this day is sure one of 'em - but the cost always put me off. Sigh.

 

[Virgorising]

Thanks for the ongoing discourse!

I can't run a temp app because the machine isn't booting, period.

Of course! So obvious, I am preoccupied with annoying issue of my own i made a thread about.

No sign of any bulging or oozing caps although it's possible I can't see everything until I pull the fan. I guess I could reseat/re-Arctic Silver the CPU, but that will have to wait until tonight.

Sorry, multi quote not working for me today.....re above, perhaps a longsnot, and annoying, but there's a chance it might help.

I thought that by this vintage - ~2012 - the legendary cap issues that killed many a machine had gone away.

I think it depends on the board, the temps, etc, but no board is impervious to getting sick in the usual ways. I have taken hits here for always shutting my systems down and unplugging by those who never do. But I will always choose to do that.

I'd thought about purchasing a USB video setup for the proverbial rainy day - and this day is sure one of 'em - but the cost always put me off. Sigh.

Again, you should not have to! Again, even get a discreet PCI card for that system.
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Edit: Also, I only get the full sized MT ATX Optiplexes.....cause of optimized air flow.....plus they have amazing thermal engineering to begin with, and each new one is even better than the previous ones.

The smaller the computer, the greater the heat generated consistently, no matter what.

 

[Virgorising]

One new thought: You din buy a K chip for nuthin. Are you overclocking to the max?
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K....here's a uTube guy with a flow chart re video failure issues. Prolly TMI in yr case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z2t4J5mfgE

My take is, either the board or yes, the PSU is going.

 

[ArtShapiro]

One new thought: You din buy a K chip for nuthin. Are you overclocking to the max?

My take is, either the board or yes, the PSU is going.

Not overclocking at all - just happened to get a good deal on the CPU.

I'm starting to worry about that PSU as well, but have given away all my power supplies to friends who have had failures. Wish I'd kept one Seasonic.

I see the board is warranted for three years, so I might get Intel involved at this point.

I'm still trying to figure out why a CD seems to boot, but neither SSD.

BTW, your icon problem is very interesting. Probably one registry setting, but only a Windows engineer might have a clue.

Art

 

[Virgorising]

Not overclocking at all - just happened to get a good deal on the CPU.

Well that's good to hear.....I have atypical bias against overclocking.

I'm starting to worry about that PSU as well, but have given away all my power supplies to friends who have had failures. Wish I'd kept one Seasonic

I apologize....clearly, my mom knows about you and, typically is upset cause you are so generous. I relate.

I see the board is warranted for three years, so I might get Intel involved at this point.

So good! Three years!

I'm still trying to figure out why a CD seems to boot, but neither SSD.

But you're still not getting video, yes?

BTW, your icon problem is very interesting. Probably one registry setting, but only a Windows engineer might have a clue.

I appreciate yr having been moved to find that! Worst part: it is self induced. I am addicted to getting and trying freewares.

Re Windows engineer....I continue to be hugely impressed by the savvy of many of our member here.....bet many are MS Certified!

Wonder if they realize....Windows sometimes lies and says, EVERYTHING is jus FINE when it is not....when u run command prompts.:whiste:

 

[Virgorising]

Look what I jus found re yr chip! Not true integrated graphics!? Wut? And yr patient functioned normally re video for two years with no discreet card? I am confused now!


- The Core i5-2500K as well as the Core i5-2500K are high performance quad Sandy Bridge processors.
- The Core i5-2550K has 100 MHz higher base and turbo clock frequency. The i5-2550K will be marginally better if both the processors are compared in their native state ( not overclocked).
- The Core i5-2550K does not come with integrated graphics. The i5-2500K comes with HD Graphics 3000.
- Since Core i5-2550K does not has integarted graphics, it does not has some of the graphics features, including, Intel Quick Sync Video, Flexible Display Interface, and Clear Video. The i5-2550K based system will require an additional graphics card.
Table : Core i5-2500K Vs Core i5-2550K Feature Differences
FeatureCore i5-2500KCore i5-2550KCore Frequency3.3 GHz3.4 GHzNo. Of Cores4 ( 4 Hyperthreads)4 ( 4 Hyperthreads)Cache Organization6 MB Intel Smart Cache6 MB Intel Smart CacheTurbo Frequency3.7 GHz3.8 GHzTDP Rating95 Watts95 Watts64 Bit SupportYYLithography32 nm32 nmIntegrated Memory ControllerDDR3-1333DDR3-1333Integrated GraphicsYes, Base 850 MHz, Turbo 1.1 GHz None
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I just delved and see there was a graphics driver update for yr chip for W 8.1 64 bit on April 10th. I assume you got it.

Despite it seemed counter-intuitive given the two years of normal, maybe it was smart you ordered the little card. Cept we need to find out what happened here. I need to call in the troops.
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K....I called in two genius troops.

Now, have you unplugged yr screens, plugged only ONE in and tried to boot? How are the screens connecting?
Which interfaces?

 

[ArtShapiro]

, plugged only ONE in and tried to boot? How are the screens connecting?
Which interfaces?

All of today I was running with no monitor, period, although normally it's one DVI and one HDMI. After all, when the processor diagnostic found no graphics whatsover, there didn't seem to be any point. Plus, I had dragged the machine off to the office - trivial given its tiny size.

I had, of course, originally tried each connection separately when the problem first popped up early this morning.

I can't firmly assert whether or not I'd gotten that latest chip video upgrade; I only check a handful of times per year.

 

[Virgorising]

All of today I was running with no monitor, period,

Above part....I get.

although normally it's one DVI and one HDMI.

K, thanks for this.

I had, of course, originally tried each connection separately when the problem first popped up early this morning

Din mean to insult yr clear intelligence, but trust me, I sometimes miss the obvious, esp when freaked out.

After all, when the processor diagnostic found no graphics whatsover, there didn't seem to be any point.

Tell me, Art, had you ever run the CPU diagnostics before this event? I am asking after having learned the graphics nuances of yr individual 2550K. Cause, if you never ran it before, showing none could even be normal. MAYBE.

I can't firmly assert whether or not I'd gotten that latest chip video upgrade; I only check a handful of times per year.

K....thanks for that. But not having gotten upgrade would still not cause the video failure you are having.

When will yr new card arrive?
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Edit: Art, HOW, exactly did you run diagnostics without a working screen?

 

[Ketchup]

Two 4gig premium GSkill sticks. Although I have the machine here in front of me at work, it will take partial disassembly to get to the ram - this is a SMALL case.

As an aside, it seemed to boot from a bootable CD, and refuses from either SSD. I'll try the RAM experimentation later, but this may end up waiting for the new video card to arrive before I can really see what's going on.

Hello ArtShapiro, this bootable CD you mentioned, what signs are you seeing that is may be loading from that?

Have you tried a clear CMOS on the board yet?

Do you have any sort of speaker plugged into the header so that you can hear the POST beep or error code?

Unplug the hard drive and every device peripheral to the computer except for one monitor and see if the boot changes.

 

[Virgorising]

Hello ArtShapiro, this bootable CD you mentioned, what signs are you seeing that is may be loading from that?

Have you tried a clear CMOS on the board yet?

Do you have any sort of speaker plugged into the header so that you can hear the POST beep or error code?

Unplug the hard drive and every device peripheral to the computer except for one monitor and see if the boot changes.

CMOS reset!!!! Do that! (Good to call in the Troops.)

He's got two SSDs by the by, he's tried booting with only one..... And yes, he had audible beep codes indicating video failure.

 

[ArtShapiro]

Hello ArtShapiro, this bootable CD you mentioned, what signs are you seeing that is may be loading from that?

Have you tried a clear CMOS on the board yet?

Do you have any sort of speaker plugged into the header so that you can hear the POST beep or error code?

Unplug the hard drive and every device peripheral to the computer except for one monitor and see if the boot changes.

The I/O activity light flickers for a reasonable time when using a bootable CD, before stabilizing.

I'm scared to clear CMOS because if it ends up requiring any non-default setting, I'm doomed - I can't see the BIOS.

The video beep code was from the MB - must be a little piezo device somewhere on it.

I'll try unplugging everything, including the hard drive - I've done that before, but not with a monitor attached. It won't be for a little while; I'm getting rather annoyed dealing with this silly board, and the Intel warranty lookup screen isn't happy with the numbers on the board that are right in front of my face.

Appreciate the input.

 

[Virgorising]

I'm scared to clear CMOS because if it ends up requiring any non-default setting, I'm doomed - I can't see the BIOS

Is true, resetting CMOS batt will return things to default settings from any personalized. Is that what U R trying to avoid?

PS: It's human to be getting frustrated in this.

 

[ArtShapiro]

Is that what U R trying to avoid?

Yes...should I not be concerned?

I'll try the everything-disconnected in a while - enjoying the basketball playoff game on TV right now.

 

[Virgorising]

Yes...should I not be concerned?

U should not unless you changed the default bios settings.

I'll try the everything-disconnected in a while - enjoying the basketball playoff game on TV right now.

Take yr time! ENJOY THE GAME.....tho, it must be over, cause I saw this late. (Tired of Miami so don care who ends up with them.)

 

[ArtShapiro]

U should not unless you changed the default bios settings.

I decided not to clear CMOS because I don't know whether this board is one of those, say like most laptops, where the zeroed-out date and time HAS to be changed before the BIOS lets the machine POST. I can't afford to do this until the new video card arrives.

I tried the other suggestion of detaching absolutely everything except one monitor. No change - still the video beep code.

Upon putting it back together, the machine decided to boot from the SSD for a change, and I'm remote-destktop'ed to it right now to compose this message. Needless to say, I have no intention of powering it down although it will probably hibernate or sleep in a few hours. I don't even have a mouse or keyboard attached to it right now.

Looks like this problem is on hold for a few days until the video card arrives. There's a MicroCenter just up the road, but I didn't spot anything that would fit within my space constraints, so it had to be mail ordered.

Thanks for all the input, folks.l We'll bide our time for a while.

 

[Virgorising]

I decided not to clear CMOS because I don't know whether this board is one of those, say like most laptops, where the zeroed-out date and time HAS to be changed before the BIOS lets the machine POST. I can't afford to do this until the new video card arrives.

K.....better safe than sorry....tho I think you'd be OK, this must be YOUR CALL.

I tried the other suggestion of detaching absolutely everything except one monitor. No change - still the video beep code

Well, that tells us sumthin. But, I still don think it's yr chip.

Upon putting it back together, the machine decided to boot from the SSD for a change, and I'm remote-destktop'ed to it right now to compose this message. Needless to say, I have no intention of powering it down although it will probably hibernate or sleep in a few hours. I don't even have a mouse or keyboard attached to it right now

Interesting. But, while this is simply intuitive....I think the machine needs some turning off/CHILLIN time. I would not keep a puter on, even a desktop, in hibernation or suspended animation or anything related with juice to the board all the time for anything.

Looks like this problem is on hold for a few days until the video card arrives. There's a MicroCenter just up the road, but I didn't spot anything that would fit within my space constraints, so it had to be mail ordered.

Things will progress organically......and yes, full sized cards easier to get than smaller ones.

HANG IN....you R doing GREAT!:thumbsup:

(Unlike Donald Sterling, that repulsive sleazoid.)

 

[Virgorising]

Art....pls remember to share the results when the card arrives and you install it.