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Diabetes Insipidus.... (not to do with insulin or glucose so hold the Brimley memes)

88keys

88keys

Golden Member
So I've had trouble with controllin my weight throughout my adult life and I've been up and down the scale ranging from 225 - 390lbs 4 times. I back down on the lower end again and the only way that I can seem to control my appetite is to drink a lot of water. I typically drink around during 1.5 gallons per day and 40 oz of that is first thing in the morning. As a result I can curb my appetite until it is time for me to eat but I have to urinate every 30-60 minutes throughout the day and itsame usually worse during the colder months if the year.
The thing is when I'm heavy, I don't drink nearly as much water or fluids in general and my urinary frequency
returns to normal but my appetite goes out of control

my diet is mostly pretty healthy. The worst thing I have every day is a nature valley fruit and nut granola bar, and I eat a large breakfast followed by several smaller meals throughout the day totaling up to about 2500 calories.
the method I'm using now has been the easiest to stick to and but i cant stick to it if i cut back on the water.


FWIW, I have been Tested for diabetes several times and my blood sugar and cholesterol were normal even at my heaviest weight.
 
Stop filling your stomach up the minute you are hungry and it will get smaller. All you are doing is reinforcing your bodies belief that hunger = must eat or drink straight away.
 
I cook for a diabetic and it all comes down to is choosing healthy carbs when you do in fact in them. Too many diabetics think wow my numbers are low tonight I can have a piece of pie or ice cream instead of eating a piece of fruit and cheese.


You also have to activate your metabolism by exercising 3-5 times a week for 45 minutes. Period. If your not your not doing what your doctor already told you. Has your doctor been asking you to exercise more?
Even if your on a controlled 2500 you have to exercise enough to make your system burn fat.

Do you drink diet coke?

If you do replace it with tea unsweetened obviously.



All it takes is caring enough about yourself. If your not doing the work your not doing what your doctor told you to do.
 
manimal said:
I cook for a diabetic and it all comes down to is choosing healthy carbs when you do in fact in them. Too many diabetics think wow my numbers are low tonight I can have a piece of pie or ice cream instead of eating a piece of fruit and cheese.


You also have to activate your metabolism by exercising 3-5 times a week for 45 minutes. Period. If your not your not doing what your doctor already told you. Has your doctor been asking you to exercise more?
Even if your on a controlled 2500 you have to exercise enough to make your system burn fat.

Do you drink diet coke?

If you do replace it with tea unsweetened obviously.



All it takes is caring enough about yourself. If your not doing the work your not doing what your doctor told you to do.
Click to expand...

diabetes insipidus is a completely different disease from diabetes mellitus.
 
Puppies04 said:
Stop filling your stomach up the minute you are hungry and it will get smaller. All you are doing is reinforcing your bodies belief that hunger = must eat or drink straight away.
Click to expand...
I've read in numerous places that hunger istill often mistaken for thirst. I've lost a lot of weight (collectivly speaking at 700lbs in my life) and I've tried a lot of different ways and I've got a pretty good idea as to what works and what does not.
manimal said:
I cook for a diabetic and it all comes down to is choosing healthy carbs when you do in fact in them. Too many diabetics think wow my numbers are low tonight I can have a piece of pie or ice cream instead of eating a piece of fruit and cheese.


You also have to activate your metabolism by exercising 3-5 times a week for 45 minutes. Period. If your not your not doing what your doctor already told you. Has your doctor been asking you to exercise more?
Even if your on a controlled 2500 you have to exercise enough to make your system burn fat.

Do you drink diet coke?

If you do replace it with tea unsweetened obviously.



All it takes is caring enough about yourself. If your not doing the work your not doing what your doctor told you to do.
Click to expand...
Before this thread turns to shit please please please read before commenting. I don't mean to be a dick but this is not the diabetes that we usually think of. I wasn't even aware of it until it was suggested to me this morning.
Hayabusa Rider said:
Are you asking day ht the disease or are you saying you know you have it?
Click to expand...

Not sure whether I have it. A contractor at my work noticed my water intake and frequent urination and he brought it up to me this morning at work. Knowing that most people don't drink enough water and that feeling hungry can actually mean that you're thirsty I just figured that my condition was normal but now I'm not so sure. I can get into more details when I get off work, but the little bit that I've read seems to fit my symptoms.
 
88keys said:
Not sure whether I have it. A contractor at my work noticed my water intake and frequent urination and he brought it up to me this morning at work. Knowing that most people don't drink enough water and that feeling hungry can actually mean that you're thirsty I just figured that my condition was normal but now I'm not so sure. I can get into more details when I get off work, but the little bit that I've read seems to fit my symptoms.
Click to expand...


It's impossible to know without testing, so you ought to get that done. There are two variants and in one type a hormone can remedy it. In any event you'll want to make sure they test electrolytes (I can't imagine they would not, but hey ask anyway).
 
88keys said:
Not sure whether I have it. A contractor at my work noticed my water intake and frequent urination and he brought it up to me this morning at work. Knowing that most people don't drink enough water and that feeling hungry can actually mean that you're thirsty I just figured that my condition was normal but now I'm not so sure. I can get into more details when I get off work, but the little bit that I've read seems to fit my symptoms.
Click to expand...

I don't think you have diabetes insipidus, for multiple reasons. If you had DI, the biggest symptom would be that you'd have to get up a few times during the night. Our body has a natural rhythm to ADH secretion, and during sleep, ADH levels rise in order to decrease urine output. So that doesn't fit. DI would also lead to constant urination irregardless of fluid intake. People with DI can kill themselves by not taking enough fluid because they are unable to retain water from their urine and ultimately go into severe dehydration. Some cases of diabetes insipidus are can be related to some event that leads to damage of the posterior pituitary, like a car accident or radiation (granted most are idiopathic). Of course it could be nephrogenic, but that's even rarer.

What you have is primary polydipsia or psychogenic polydipsia, which is problematic because you can overhydrate yourself, which can lead to seizures and death.
 
abj13 said:
I don't think you have diabetes insipidus, for multiple reasons. If you had DI, the biggest symptom would be that you'd have to get up a few times during the night. Our body has a natural rhythm to ADH secretion, and during sleep, ADH levels rise in order to decrease urine output. So that doesn't fit. DI would also lead to constant urination irregardless of fluid intake. People with DI can kill themselves by not taking enough fluid because they are unable to retain water from their urine and ultimately go into severe dehydration. Some cases of diabetes insipidus are can be related to some event that leads to damage of the posterior pituitary, like a car accident or radiation (granted most are idiopathic). Of course it could be nephrogenic, but that's even rarer.

What you have is primary polydipsia or psychogenic polydipsia, which is problematic because you can overhydrate yourself, which can lead to seizures and death.
Click to expand...

When in doubt check it out. I don't think he's going to be on DDAVP any time soon, but there's no reason to not pursue it.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
When in doubt check it out. I don't think he's going to be on DDAVP any time soon, but there's no reason to not pursue it.
Click to expand...

Definitely, I agree. Some basic labs, urinalysis, etc. Internet forums are no substitute for a trained professional laying eyes and hands on you.
 
abj13 said:
Definitely, I agree. Some basic labs, urinalysis, etc. Internet forums are no substitute for a trained professional laying eyes and hands on you.
Click to expand...

Hayabusa Rider said:
When in doubt check it out. I don't think he's going to be on DDAVP any time soon, but there's no reason to not pursue it.
Click to expand...

Well obviously you can't get a doc's appointment at the drop of a hat and lab tests take time so I just posted this to see if anyone here has or had experinece with it.

abj13 said:
I don't think you have diabetes insipidus, for multiple reasons. If you had DI, the biggest symptom would be that you'd have to get up a few times during the night. Our body has a natural rhythm to ADH secretion, and during sleep, ADH levels rise in order to decrease urine output. So that doesn't fit. DI would also lead to constant urination irregardless of fluid intake. People with DI can kill themselves by not taking enough fluid because they are unable to retain water from their urine and ultimately go into severe dehydration. Some cases of diabetes insipidus are can be related to some event that leads to damage of the posterior pituitary, like a car accident or radiation (granted most are idiopathic). Of course it could be nephrogenic, but that's even rarer.

What you have is primary polydipsia or psychogenic polydipsia, which is problematic because you can overhydrate yourself, which can lead to seizures and death.
Click to expand...

Well that would really depend on the severity of the condition. From what I've read it is not uncommon for people to go undiagnosed with DI for years when the symptoms are mild. I'm mildly lactose intolerant which means I can get away with dairy products in small quantities, but I have a friend who is so bad off that he can't consume any dairy what so ever. Not only that but urination can only persist if you have the relative fluid intake. If there is nothing to urinate then there is nothing to urinate.

And then diabetes mellitus (the kind most people are familiar with) have very broad ranging symptoms and we probably know a few people who have it. Some can still eat and drink whatever they want so long as they get their insulin shots (an/or pills) and others need to walk a very straight and narrow path or else they'll wind up in the hospital. I knew one guy who had the opposite (don't remember its hyper or hypoglycemia) and he had to keep his blood sugar up or he'd pass out on the job.



But going back to the conversation I had with the contractor at work who suggested it to me.

Anyway he worked beside me and he noticed my water intake and frequent urination in the morning (which tapers off gradually throughout the day). And he aksed me why I drank so much water and I explained to him that it was the only way to stave off my appetite because I have issues controlling my weight. He also asked the color of my urine whether it was clear (which it is 99% of the time). He even noticed the dry patch of skin on my arm and that's when he asked if I had been checked for Diabetes Mellitus (The bloodsugar kind), and told him yes, several times and my blood sugar was also ways normal. And then he brought up Diabetes Insipidus (the kind we're discussing in this thread) and he explained what is was and that his brother has it and that I should get it checked out because it can get really serious as you get older. He didn't tell me how old his brother was but I'd guess around 50-something. He did describe his issues with his appetite and excessively dry skin that was mis-diagnosed as eczema (which I do have and it has been really awful during the the last few winters). Our conversation was cut short so he didn't get into too much detail beyond this but he told me to get it checked out.


FWIW, 90+% of my fluid intake consists of water. The only times that I deviate from this are in the morning because I have a glass of lightly sweetened iced tea (with real sugar). And I have 32oz bottle of watered down gatorade that I drink throughout the day with my meals. This is something that I started doing in the last couple of months and it seems like it actually alleviates my urination issue a little bit for some reason.

But then again the further away I go from pure water the less I'll have to go and this is pretty much true with the exception of coffee and alcoholic beverages.
 
OP: Have you been officially diagnosed with anything or are you self diagnosing?

My suggestion to you as I've experienced a mild version of what you had almost 10 years ago is aside from controlling your stress levels, try taking a multi-vitamin. Also when you get a craving for water and or sugar, take a 1000MG of vitamin C, wait 5 minutes and see if the cravings disappear.

As for multi-vitamins, I've tried a lot and have had intermittent success with them except for this one here: http://www.vitacost.com/natures-way-alive-once-daily-mens-multi-vitamin-60-tablets

The best part about these specific vitamins is that they're made from actual plant products vs. the artificial shit a lot of them are made of.

Report back your results please.
 
Maybe you eat too little salt/potassium/magnesium.

You sound like my dog when it was a pup, which is funny. She would practically drink her body weight in water, it was the damnedest thing. Also she would eat WHATEVER you put down in her bowl, could eat practically her bodyweight. It went away when she was older. To curb it though salty food helped.
 
88keys said:
If there is nothing to urinate then there is nothing to urinate.
Click to expand...

I would be very careful in saying that in regards to diabetes insipidus. DI is completely different from diabetes mellitus. They have completely different forms of pathophysiology, and they have completely different manifestations other than increased urination. You shouldn't even think of them being in any way related other than having diabetes in their names, and are associated with increased urination.

The problem with diabetes insipidus is a lack of a production or response of ADH. This can be at the level of the posterior pituitary or at the level of the kidneys. The end result is lack of insertion of aquaporins into the collecting tubule of the nephron... which basically means the body cannot reabsorb water from urine.

The kidneys are constantly filtering your serum and creating urine. For normally function kidneys, they are able to adjust the reabsorption of water from urine based on a variety of factors. However, if ADH production or activity is diminished, losing ADH activity on the nephron is going to significantly impact the ability of the kidneys to absorb water in any situation. This is why having frequent urination at night is a key symptom in differentiating diabetes inspidus from other conditions.

In fact, one of the tests involved in diagnosing DI involves water deprivation and serial blood/urine tests.

The fact that changing what you drink makes it suspicious it isn't DI. I'm not saying you definitely don't have DI, but DI is a problem irrespective of what you are drinking. If your kidneys has an inability to concentrate, it is going to happen no matter what your input is. This is why DI can be so dangerous, if you don't drink anything, DI can lead to severe dehydration/death.

When you were tested for diabetes in the past, did you have a blood sodium level and a urinalysis checked? Those are some helpful tests in examining for DI. Either way, getting it checked out is important, but you do not have the classic symptoms associated with DI. But it still bears being checked for.
 
88keys said:
No I have a doc's appointment on the monday after next. I am not self diagnosing anything. Just asking questions. I thought I made the latter part clear.
Click to expand...

Well, just try out my suggestion, you may be pleasantly surprised with the results. Your diet, sleep habits, etc. could be causing your weight/eating/etc problems. But what you've described definitely reminds me of when I was in highschool but I had a much milder case than you did.
 
abj13 said:
I would be very careful in saying that in regards to diabetes insipidus. DI is completely different from diabetes mellitus. They have completely different forms of pathophysiology, and they have completely different manifestations other than increased urination. You shouldn't even think of them being in any way related other than having diabetes in their names, and are associated with increased urination.

The problem with diabetes insipidus is a lack of a production or response of ADH. This can be at the level of the posterior pituitary or at the level of the kidneys. The end result is lack of insertion of aquaporins into the collecting tubule of the nephron... which basically means the body cannot reabsorb water from urine.

The kidneys are constantly filtering your serum and creating urine. For normally function kidneys, they are able to adjust the reabsorption of water from urine based on a variety of factors. However, if ADH production or activity is diminished, losing ADH activity on the nephron is going to significantly impact the ability of the kidneys to absorb water in any situation. This is why having frequent urination at night is a key symptom in differentiating diabetes inspidus from other conditions.

In fact, one of the tests involved in diagnosing DI involves water deprivation and serial blood/urine tests.

The fact that changing what you drink makes it suspicious it isn't DI. I'm not saying you definitely don't have DI, but DI is a problem irrespective of what you are drinking. If your kidneys has an inability to concentrate, it is going to happen no matter what your input is. This is why DI can be so dangerous, if you don't drink anything, DI can lead to severe dehydration/death.



When you were tested for diabetes in the past, did you have a blood sodium level and a urinalysis checked? Those are some helpful tests in examining for DI. Either way, getting it checked out is important, but you do not have the classic symptoms associated with DI. But it still bears being checked for.
Click to expand...

I don't know about my sodium level being checked and I never had a urinalysis (I don't think). But my blood pressure, cholesterol and stuff has always been fine regardless of my body weight.
OverVolt said:
Maybe you eat too little salt/potassium/magnesium.

You sound like my dog when it was a pup, which is funny. She would practically drink her body weight in water, it was the damnedest thing. Also she would eat WHATEVER you put down in her bowl, could eat practically her bodyweight. It went away when she was older. To curb it though salty food helped.
Click to expand...

Perhaps.. I don't personally care for alot of salt and I use very little of it and I never feel the need to add it to anything that is already prepared. Infact I usually have to take some off. Like if I get a soft pretzel, I need to knock off 2/3 or more of the salt off before I'll eat it. And I find movie theater popcorn to be indelibly salty. I'm not nor have I ever been a big fan of salty snacks like potato chips and pretzels. Lately I've been buying these old fashioned pretzels just because they're not as salty as the typical ones you get in the store.

But perhaps consuming very little salt might explain why my blood pressure has always been normal despite being (at times) 180 lbs overweight.

I have a co worker who is built similar to me just slightly taller and heavier and he consumes about the same amount of water as I do and i asked him about this and he said that he goes about once per hour or so in the morning and then less frequent throughout the day.
 
You've stated several times that you're drinking the water to stave off hunger, not because you're actually thirsty. If you're drinking a lot of fluids, of course you're going to be urinating a lot.

You're fine. Cancel the doctor's appointment.
 
Hate to inform you OP.... a solution is available and way simpler than most care to admit. Start to meet the daily RDA for fibrous vegetables and fruits, period. Eat as much of them as satiates you.

Or better yet... buy a blender, begin making smoothies to supplement your diet.

For beginners, I highly recommend a kale, romaine lettuce, spinach, lemon, pear apple, banana smoothie. Well-made smoothies are extremely delicious once you retrain your brain; otherwise modern agriculture has indoctrinated us to overindulge primarily in ubiquitous and inexpensive supermarket carbs.

In fact, you should try to eliminate *refined* carbohydrates (especially in absence of fiber) whenever possible: pasta, noodles, bagels, chips, white rice, cereals, pretzels, fruit juices, candy etc. and instead opt toward eating higher protein to carb ratio foods: fish, chicken, pork, beef, yogurt, nuts, milk, eggs... grass-fed and organic whenever feasible. Please don't ever worry about saturated fats and cholesterol; Ancel Key's science has been proven completely wrong and has only helped increase first-world sickness.

Oh, do you exercise??? Well, you should in some form.... My best advice there would be that *slow* and steady wins the race.

You caused this damage and malfunction to your own body. Don't now expect someone (or some pill) to magically change your life for the better. Most stand to gain more (in this competitive life) from your continuing ill health.

Yeah a major lifestyle change takes some discipline and dedication at first, but it becomes way easier after just a few short weeks. The quicker you tackle the diabetes and additional weight the less likely for it to become a problem later in life. Good luck.
 
Carson Dyle said:
You've stated several times that you're drinking the water to stave off hunger, not because you're actually thirsty. If you're drinking a lot of fluids, of course you're going to be urinating a lot.

You're fine. Cancel the doctor's appointment.
Click to expand...

Hunger is a sign of dehydration.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/510463-how-body-mistakes-hunger-for-thirst/

http://www.weightlossforall.com/thirst-signal-frequent-eating.htm

http://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-eat/12-reasons-you-can’t-stop-eating/slide/4

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/11/surprising-hunger-causes-sneaky_n_4241299.html

bradley said:
Hate to inform you OP.... a solution is available and way simpler than most care to admit. Start to meet the daily RDA for fibrous vegetables and fruits, period. Eat as much of them as satiates you.

Or better yet... buy a blender, begin making smoothies to supplement your diet.

For beginners, I highly recommend a kale, romaine lettuce, spinach, lemon, pear apple, banana smoothie. Well-made smoothies are extremely delicious once you retrain your brain; otherwise modern agriculture has indoctrinated us to overindulge primarily in ubiquitous and inexpensive supermarket carbs.

In fact, you should try to eliminate *refined* carbohydrates (especially in absence of fiber) whenever possible: pasta, noodles, bagels, chips, white rice, cereals, pretzels, fruit juices, candy etc. and instead opt toward eating higher protein to carb ratio foods: fish, chicken, pork, beef, yogurt, nuts, milk, eggs... grass-fed and organic whenever feasible. Please don't ever worry about saturated fats and cholesterol; Ancel Key's science has been proven completely wrong and has only helped increase first-world sickness.

Oh, do you exercise??? Well, you should in some form.... My best advice there would be that *slow* and steady wins the race.

You caused this damage and malfunction to your own body. Don't now expect someone (or some pill) to magically change your life for the better. Most stand to gain more (in this competitive life) from your continuing ill health.

Yeah a major lifestyle change takes some discipline and dedication at first, but it becomes way easier after just a few short weeks. The quicker you tackle the diabetes and additional weight the less likely for it to become a problem later in life. Good luck.
Click to expand...

For fuck's sake read the fucking posts before you start typing. Why is that so difficult? I'm sorry but I cannot begin to tell you how much this shit infuriates me. It's like you're too lazy to read something, but you're still arrogant enough to write a long winded post that is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Even the fucking thread title says "Not to do with insulin or glucose".

SMH
 
abj13 has already covered the pathophysiology quite well. I would agree with his point with regard to nocturia. If you are not getting up a night to urinate (with some frequency), I would be highly skeptical of a diagnosis of DI and it would certainly point toward primary polydipsia.
 
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