Detroit needs to forget about Barry Sanders...

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
OK speed, you want stats here are some stats.

in 27 games on grass for the seasons of '95, '96, '97, '98 (only chose those years because those are the only years i could find broken down by game) sanders averaged 98 yds per game.
in those 27 games he had 7 games of >60 yds

in the 37 games played on turf during the same period he averaged 108 yds per game
in those 37 games he only had 8 games of > 60 yds.

you can test for statistical significance if you want to, i'm willing to wager that the sample size is mb too small, but there was a difference between sanders on turf and on grass.

You should break it down to yds/carries on grass/turf rather than per game, it makes it more accurate.

Anyways, against GOOD and GREAT teams let's take a look at Barry's stats on grass:

1995
---------------
18-124 against Green Bay who went to playoffs (6.8/carry)
at home against Green Bay - 22-167 (7.5/carry)
24-120 against Bears who went 9-7 (5/carry)

1997
---------------
23-105 against Green Bay who went to Super Bowl (4.6/carry)
at home against Green Bay - 28-139(4.9/carry)
30-137 against Miami who went to playoffs (4.6/carry)

1996
---------------
20-152 against Green Bay who won SB (7.6/carry)
at home against Green Bay - 21-78 (3.7/carry)
28-175 against San Fran who went to playoffs (6.2/carry)

1998
---------------
17-70 against Green Bay who went to playoffs (4.1/carry)
at home against Green Bay 24-155 (6.4/carry)
18-103 against Jacksonville who went to playoffs (5.7/carry)

Total stats on grass against playoff teams from 1995, 1996, 1997, and 1998*
*I put 1995 Bears in because they went 9-7 and were good enough to make wildcard but didn't
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
178 - 986 = 5.5yds/carry on grass against playoff teams!


Statistically, I think you have been disproven... Taking the GB sample set b/c that's all we have of Barry against a good team on turf and grass, your theory only holds true for 2 of 4 years... 1997 doesn't qualify because 0.3 yards isn't large enough of a difference. Of course I didn't include games against crap defenses, because that doesn't really show an athlete's true skill: it's how you play against the good teams that counts.

Albeit, yes, there were only 8 games on grass against good teams to choose from but I think that's a good enough sample size.

Also, in your stats above, why have you decided that games of 150yards or more is the deciding discriminator/variable? I think games against playoff teams on grass away is a much more accurate statistic than games of 150yards or more...

So what do you think?

you did what's called cherry picking stats.

my analysis was based on all the games from 4 consecutive years.

the yds per carry came out to be

5 yds / carry on grass

5.8 yds / carry on turf.

so, statistically i'm proven right.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Also, in your stats above, why have you decided that games of 150yards or more is the deciding discriminator/variable? I think games against playoff teams on grass away is a much more accurate statistic than games of 150yards or more...

So what do you think?

did you miss where i showed you number of games with fewer than 60 and few than 80 yds per game?

i chose 150 as 150 is an exceptional game.

i chose 80 and 60 as, 60 is a poor game and 80 on the fringe of being poor.

 

[Zorba]

I know you all probably don't care about his college days. But in 1988 when he ran for over 2700 yards. His home field was GRASS and most of the fields in the big 8 were grass. But he still did all of the cuts and stops, etc.

As for Barry quitting. If you were a great player and you had been playing on the same team your whole career and they made it clear that they didn't care about winning, you would be pissed to. I personally can't blaim him. It would be like the bulls telling Michael Jordan that they didn't care about champiships and sold off everyone but him. I think he would be thinking about retiring too (oh wait, isn't that the reason he retired the second time?).

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Zorba
I know you all probably don't care about his college days. But in 1988 when he ran for over 2700 yards. His home field was GRASS and most of the fields in the big 8 were grass. But he still did all of the cuts and stops, etc.

As for Barry quitting. If you were a great player and you had been playing on the same team your whole career and they made it clear that they didn't care about winning, you would be pissed to. I personally can't blaim him. It would be like the bulls telling Michael Jordan that they didn't care about champiships and sold off everyone but him. I think he was has feeling about retiring too (oh wait, isn't that the reason he retired the second time?).

again, i said i have no problems with him retiring, but i do have a problem with him retiring then trying to find a way to play for another team.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Zorba
I know you all probably don't care about his college days. But in 1988 when he ran for over 2700 yards. His home field was GRASS and most of the fields in the big 8 were grass. But he still did all of the cuts and stops, etc.

As for Barry quitting. If you were a great player and you had been playing on the same team your whole career and they made it clear that they didn't care about winning, you would be pissed to. I personally can't blaim him. It would be like the bulls telling Michael Jordan that they didn't care about champiships and sold off everyone but him. I think he was has feeling about retiring too (oh wait, isn't that the reason he retired the second time?).

btw, he DIDN'T need to make all the cuts in college that he would have had to make in the pros. in college, he probably played against 2 or 3 good teams per year. bad teams in college don't come anywhere near close to comparing to bad teams in the pros. you have to take college numbers with a grain of salt.

 

[Zorba]

I know. I just don't understand what is so wrong with that. He saw that he did have a ton of years left and I bet he didn't want to waste playing for a team that didn't give a sh!t. Good players ask to be traded all the time, they wouldn't trade him so he said "F you."

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Zorba
I know. I just don't understand what is so wrong with that. He saw that he did have a ton of years left and I bet he didn't want to waste playing for a team that didn't give a sh!t. Good players ask to be traded all the time, they wouldn't trade him so he said "F you."

mb i don't understand the progression.

i always understood that sanders retired, pretty much without warning, than a year later decided that he wanted to come back but ONLY if it wasn't for the lions.

 

[Zorba]

I've seen the video from college and he does the same thing he did in the pros, as far as cuts, etc. And he put up massive numbers against teams like Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Texas and Nebraska. Not exactly weak teams, especially back then. I know that it is hard in the pros than in college, but it still shows he can run on grass.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
OK speed, you want stats here are some stats.

in 27 games on grass for the seasons of '95, '96, '97, '98 (only chose those years because those are the only years i could find broken down by game) sanders averaged 98 yds per game.
in those 27 games he had 7 games of >60 yds

in the 37 games played on turf during the same period he averaged 108 yds per game
in those 37 games he only had 8 games of > 60 yds.

you can test for statistical significance if you want to, i'm willing to wager that the sample size is mb too small, but there was a difference between sanders on turf and on grass.

You should break it down to yds/carries on grass/turf rather than per game, it makes it more accurate.

Anyways, against GOOD and GREAT teams let's take a look at Barry's stats on grass:

1995
---------------
18-124 against Green Bay who went to playoffs (6.8/carry)
at home against Green Bay - 22-167 (7.5/carry)
24-120 against Bears who went 9-7 (5/carry)

1997
---------------
23-105 against Green Bay who went to Super Bowl (4.6/carry)
at home against Green Bay - 28-139(4.9/carry)
30-137 against Miami who went to playoffs (4.6/carry)

1996
---------------
20-152 against Green Bay who won SB (7.6/carry)
at home against Green Bay - 21-78 (3.7/carry)
28-175 against San Fran who went to playoffs (6.2/carry)

1998
---------------
17-70 against Green Bay who went to playoffs (4.1/carry)
at home against Green Bay 24-155 (6.4/carry)
18-103 against Jacksonville who went to playoffs (5.7/carry)

Total stats on grass against playoff teams from 1995, 1996, 1997, and 1998*
*I put 1995 Bears in because they went 9-7 and were good enough to make wildcard but didn't
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
178 - 986 = 5.5yds/carry on grass against playoff teams!


Statistically, I think you have been disproven... Taking the GB sample set b/c that's all we have of Barry against a good team on turf and grass, your theory only holds true for 2 of 4 years... 1997 doesn't qualify because 0.3 yards isn't large enough of a difference. Of course I didn't include games against crap defenses, because that doesn't really show an athlete's true skill: it's how you play against the good teams that counts.

Albeit, yes, there were only 8 games on grass against good teams to choose from but I think that's a good enough sample size.

Also, in your stats above, why have you decided that games of 150yards or more is the deciding discriminator/variable? I think games against playoff teams on grass away is a much more accurate statistic than games of 150yards or more...

So what do you think?

you did what's called cherry picking stats.

my analysis was based on all the games from 4 consecutive years.

the yds per carry came out to be

5 yds / carry on grass

5.8 yds / carry on turf.

so, statistically i'm proven right.

How is that "Cherry Picking stats"? It's statistically the only playoff teams that Barry played against on grass. He averaged 5 on grass, 5.5 on grass against playoff teams, and 5.8 on turf overall. So where is your argument?? .8 yards, or .3 yards don't equate to anything!! Your argument is just about as good as saying Barry ran worse on the road than at home(turf). You can statististically say ANY running back is better or worse at home or road if there's a .3-.8 difference (Yeah, OJ was .3 better at home which was grass so he can't run on turf, yeah um that's it). You still haven't proven that Barry is significantly better on turf than grass, and I've proven that against playoff teams he runs about the same as turf. Statistically it's impossible to make a case for either variable given such a small avg difference.