Despite Cease Fire Israeli Forces Conduct Raids Into Lebanon.

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
failing that, I think we can extend that Galloway quote to say
Neither the Arabs or Israel gives a damn whether the Arab refugee lives or dies.

You were making sense right about to that point. They had more than 10 years to create something, and billions and billions of dollars in aid money, which was, somehow, misspent.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Czar
Tell me

Why did they leave?
Why couldnt they return?
...
How come Israel does not want to honor that?

Are you high? I already posted why they left, and why they couldn't return.
Anyway, I see that you are out to blame Israel for everything, so there's no point wasting time with you.

Quitting on me?

The refugees living in gaza and the west bank, why cant they return to their homes?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
On that Arabs not accepting refugees point, I agree with dna. The arab side has a rather shameful record---and a pandering one at that in regard to the Palistinians. But its great PR
for a given arab country at home---who can say to its citizens---look at that poor oppressed Palistinian---thank your lucky stars that you live in our wonderful country. At the same time
they can deflect anger and attention away by getting its people to hate Israel---and not cast their eye on the problems of reform in their own country. So the arab also gains as the Palistinian is oppressed----and neither side is motivated to see the status quo changed.----or gasp---poney up the money that its gonna take to get a viable Palistinian State going which is what its going to take to long term solve many of the problems in the mid-east.

But it also may show the reflection of different mind-sets----the guy on top rungs of the ladder wants to climb even higher---while the terrorist is so far down on the ladder, they see no hope of reaching equality---so they just want to tear down the structure the ladder is leaning on, and start with building a different structure from the torn down old one.

And taking the Galloway quote, if the arab states want to keep the Palistinian problem as an open sore, it then implies that Israel would want that open sore to scab over and heal. And that can be only done if the Palistinian is given the raw materials to start using their energies to build a Palistinian State----failing that, I think we can extend that Galloway quote to say
Neither the Arabs or Israel gives a damn whether the Arab refugee lives or dies.

I note some years ago GWB was saying that a Palistinian State was needed. It was about the same time GWB was saying we needed to switch to a hydrogen based energy structure.
And both have proved to be nothing but empty verbage and pie in the sky----its one thing to have an idea---its quite another to invest time and energy into making an idea into a reality.

good post

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Czar
The refugees living in gaza and the west bank, why cant they return to their homes?

Heh, refugee among your own people; isn't that ironic?
After 60 years people move on (or have passed away already).
I'm sure none of them really expects to return anywhere; it's only a rouse by the so-called leaders to press Israel.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Maps and what Syria did in 1960 do nothing to change what they did in 1964. And feel free to ask me anything you like about my agenda or anything else here I have no reason to hide anything of the sort.

Funny thing that they only raised this issue after Israel withdrew in 2000. Makes you wonder.
No need to wonder, they quite clearly had more pressing issues to deal with before 2000.

No, there is no rustication for that, never under any grounds. But there is no justification for holding anyone responsible for that other than the few individuals who took part in the lynching.

You probably didn't see the videos, but it was definitely not few individuals.

I haven't seen the videos, but I mean a few as in a whole lot less than the whole population.

Originally posted by: dna

Yeah, they didn't have to see any solders, the theat of a massacre was enough:

I've read somewhere that the Arab fighers developed a strategy of dressing up like women (women weren't frisked), and then, when the Israeli guards were unattentative, they would've pulled out their weapons, and shoot; If I were in this situation, you'd be damned sure I'd develop a take-no-priosonners attitude (to some extent).

Just so you understand how you get to the point that "innocents" are being shot, consider this bit of history on submarine warfare: initially, submarines were used to stop merchant ships in the Atlantic to inspect them for contraband. This was all nice and good as long as the ship's crew cooperated. Somewhere down the line, a "cunning" ship captain decided to install and use (by surprise) a deck gun. The outcome: submarine captains wised up, and sunk any ship; a submarine is very vulnerable on the surface, so why risk a dangerous inspection?

I've heard arguments like that presented in attempts to justify the worst of atrocities, but such anecdotal evidence and metaphorical arguments do nothing to change history.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
I haven't seen the videos, but I mean a few as in a whole lot less than the whole population.

Ah, yes, you were this clsoe to claim "oppression". It's good to have you back.
And for the record, they were already in the police station, and those "policemen" did not try to stop the crowd.

Originally posted by: dna
I've heard arguments like that presented in attempts to justify the worst of atrocities, but such anecdotal evidence and metaphorical arguments do nothing to change history.

Don't misconstrue my words: if the village surrendered, and one of the women there was actually a man with a rifle, then pulling it out would've endangered any "civilian" there; when the bullets start flying, nobody has the time to check if it is a real woman, or a man in drag.
It's the same tactic use by Hezbolla -- seek shelter among civilians, and civilians die, then so much better for the cause.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Czar
The refugees living in gaza and the west bank, why cant they return to their homes?

Heh, refugee among your own people; isn't that ironic?
After 60 years people move on (or have passed away already).
I'm sure none of them really expects to return anywhere; it's only a rouse by the so-called leaders to press Israel.

Then according to the Un resolution you referenced shouldnt Israel be paying compenastion to those who decide not to return?

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Czar
Then according to the Un resolution you referenced shouldnt Israel be paying compenastion to those who decide not to return?

There is a difference between choosing not to return, and not being allowed to return -- as in the Arab countries did not allow that to happen; evidence of that is the fact that they kept them in refugee camps for all these years. Had the refugees "chosen" to stay, then I would assume that by now they would be part of society in Lebanon, Syria, etc.

Furthermore, I'm sure that nobody thought of returning, not while Israel existed, since they would be branded traitors, which would probably follow by a shot to the head, a bit of dragging in the street, and then a hanging body of a tree.

By the way, try to restrict your selective reading to other people's post; as I said, I'm not here to spoon-feed you.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Czar
Then according to the Un resolution you referenced shouldnt Israel be paying compenastion to those who decide not to return?

There is a difference between choosing not to return, and not being allowed to return -- as in the Arab countries did not allow that to happen; evidence of that is the fact that they kept them in refugee camps for all these years. Had the refugees "chosen" to stay, then I would assume that by now they would be part of society in Lebanon, Syria, etc.

Furthermore, I'm sure that nobody thought of returning, not while Israel existed, since they would be branded traitors, which would probably follow by a shot to the head, a bit of dragging in the street, and then a hanging body of a tree.

By the way, try to restrict your selective reading to other people's post; as I said, I'm not here to spoon-feed you.

You keep saying that the Arab countries didnt allow them to leave. If they were to leave, could they return to their homes in Israel?

 

[imported_dna]

I believe that at the time Israel offered to allow to some 100,000 to return, however nobody took the offer.
Also, you are forgetting that resolution 194 says that they should be allowed to return if they are willing to live in peace -- a not so minor detail.

They demand "right-of-return" from a country whose right to exist they still don't acknowledge, based on a UN Resolution they did not support, ignoring the fact that for several good decades they had no intention of becoming Israeli citizens (or were not allowed to leave their camps). Alternatively, they aregue, that they should be compensated for their material losses; a fantastic feat -- demanding money from a state they do not believe exists. Ironic, isn't it?

Also, I'd like to bring up of the issue of the 1948 Jewish Refugees. All in all, the numbers are equivalent, so as I've said before, let's consider it an equal trade of people/property: Israel absorbed all the Jewish refugees kicked out, so at the very least the Arab countries can naturalize the people it urged to flee.

Wouldn't you agree that's fair?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
I haven't seen the videos, but I mean a few as in a whole lot less than the whole population.

Ah, yes, you were this clsoe to claim "oppression". It's good to have you back.
And for the record, they were already in the police station, and those "policemen" did not try to stop the crowd.

Could you please explain why you put impression in quotes? Are you not familar with the hardships enured by the entier Palestinian population under Israeli occupation?

Originally posted by: dna

I've heard arguments like that presented in attempts to justify the worst of atrocities, but such anecdotal evidence and metaphorical arguments do nothing to change history.

Don't misconstrue my words: if the village surrendered, and one of the women there was actually a man with a rifle, then pulling it out would've endangered any "civilian" there; when the bullets start flying, nobody has the time to check if it is a real woman, or a man in drag.
It's the same tactic use by Hezbolla -- seek shelter among civilians, and civilians die, then so much better for the cause.

That isn't what the history books say happened.