News Desktop GPU sales hit 20 year low

[NTMBK]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sales-of-desktop-graphics-cards-hit-20-year-low

Demand for graphics cards significantly increased during the pandemic as some people spent more time at home playing games, whereas others tried to mine Ethereum to get some cash. But it looks like now that the world has re-opened and Ethereum mining on GPUs is dead, demand for desktop discrete GPUs has dropped dramatically. In fact, shipments of discrete graphics cards hit a ~20-year low in Q3 2022, according to data from Jon Peddie Research.

NVidia really F'd this one up. Time for affordable GPUs again.

 

[jpiniero]

Shipments aren't the same as sales. I wouldn't expect Toms to understand the difference, but hey.

As I've been saying, nVidia pretty obviously continued to go full blast with Ampere, intending to sell to miners. But when that blew up nVidia decided to slow play Ada's releases to sell off the Ampere supply instead of turning over quicker. There's a downside to doing that of course... It shouldn't be surprising that sales are down big too because people don't like buying 2 year old products.

I think, worse comes to worse, you are going to see reduced supply compared to lower prices. AMD could easily not release N32 or N33 on desktop if the prices are too low for their linking, esp given TSMC's big price increases.

 

[biostud]

This is what happens when you have a monopolistic market.

 

[maddie]

I posted this in another thread. Relevant for this one, as it concerns the same link @ Toms.

Because the recent past is often held as the new normal.

AMD capacity constraints means producing more low end products is sacrificing margins as too few wafers. TSMC will keep raising prices as demand outstrips supply. Sound familiar?

They are still being written and are wrong. The few voices stating that prices will fall are right, it's just not a quick (1-2)Q process, sort of still early in the stages of grief thing.

A new normal is being born and it's going to be ugly for most.

What was so funny is this line at the end, "Market observers generally remain optimistic about the demand for advanced chips returning to normal in 2023." Classic denial phase.

What planet are these people living on? I understand that most get their information from certain trusted sources, which in my opinion they have been corrupted and when reality, as always happen, insist on imposing itself on us, we resort to increasingly crazier explanations. Good luck with that.

 

[biostud]

I posted this in another thread. Relevant for this one, as it concerns the same link @ Toms.

Because the recent past is often held as the new normal.

AMD capacity constraints means producing more low end products is sacrificing margins as too few wafers. TSMC will keep raising prices as demand outstrips supply. Sound familiar?

They are still being written and are wrong. The few voices stating that prices will fall are right, it's just not a quick (1-2)Q process, sort of still early in the stages of grief thing.

A new normal is being born and it's going to be ugly for most.

What was so funny is this line at the end, "Market observers generally remain optimistic about the demand for advanced chips returning to normal in 2023." Classic denial phase.

What planet are these people living on? I understand that most get their information from certain trusted sources, which in my opinion they have been corrupted and when reality, as always happen, insist on imposing itself on us, we resort to increasingly crazier explanations. Good luck with that.

But on the other hand companies slashes orders, so the question is whether bleeding edge is constrained, while older processes are not? https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-intel-nvidia-slash-orders-to-tsmc

 

[Tup3x]

At this point I just hope that both NVIDIA and AMD would hit reset button and next time just release GPUs with the same or slightly faster performance but at much lower price instead (and NVIDIA should add that DP 2.1 support). Those would sell. Kinda what happened with G92 and RV670.

 

[maddie]

But on the other hand companies slashes orders, so the question is whether bleeding edge is constrained, while older processes are not? https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-intel-nvidia-slash-orders-to-tsmc

That article claims that all nodes are experiencing order cancellations and will be underutilized. To read some here, this means TSMC will be increasing prices further as you got to keep profits up. Right, right?

 

[biostud]

Maybe

That article claims that all nodes are experiencing order cancellations and will be underutilized. To read some here, this means TSMC will be increasing prices further as you got to keep profits up. Right, right?

So basically they're using their monopoly to keep the prices up.
Intel get your **** together and ramp up the competition.

 

[Leeea]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sales-of-desktop-graphics-cards-hit-20-year-low



NVidia really F'd this one up. Time for affordable GPUs again.

No, attractive affordable gpus are available. Nobody is buying them.

Nvidia knows its market.

I posted this in another thread. Relevant for this one, as it concerns the same link @ Toms.

Because the recent past is often held as the new normal.

AMD capacity constraints means producing more low end products is sacrificing margins as too few wafers. TSMC will keep raising prices as demand outstrips supply. Sound familiar?

They are still being written and are wrong. The few voices stating that prices will fall are right, it's just not a quick (1-2)Q process, sort of still early in the stages of grief thing.

A new normal is being born and it's going to be ugly for most.

What was so funny is this line at the end, "Market observers generally remain optimistic about the demand for advanced chips returning to normal in 2023." Classic denial phase.

What planet are these people living on? I understand that most get their information from certain trusted sources, which in my opinion they have been corrupted and when reality, as always happen, insist on imposing itself on us, we resort to increasingly crazier explanations. Good luck with that.

Your wrong, AMD is not supply constrained.

AMD manufactured enough low end products to fill the channel and then some
rx6600 @ $239 last I checked:

rx6600 - Google Shopping

That is the same price as the rx580 was sold back in the day. Supply is plentiful. Prices are right. Customers are not interested.

also:
rx6500 @ $160

rx6500 - Google Shopping

rx6400 @ $149

rx6400 - Google Shopping

At this point I just hope that both NVIDIA and AMD would hit reset button and next time just release GPUs with the same or slightly faster performance but at much lower price instead (and NVIDIA should add that DP 2.1 support). Those would sell. Kinda what happened with G92 and RV670.

AMD has effectively done that. Nobody is buying them.

That is not what the market is interested in.

gtx1080 msrp: $599
same performance today?: rx6600xt @ $329

buyers are not interested.

 

[maddie]

Maybe

So basically they're using their monopoly to keep the prices up.
Intel get your **** together and ramp up the competition.

Doesn't seem that good if the expectation is that you're going to 50% utilization on 7 & 6 nm nodes. Idling 1/2 of your capacity means the entire supply chain is affected. There will be a price adjustment to rebalance margins and volume, we'll just have to wait a bit.

 

[maddie]

No, attractive affordable gpus are available. Nobody is buying them.

Nvidia knows its market.



Your wrong, AMD is not supply constrained.

AMD manufactured enough low end products to fill the channel and then some
rx6600 @ $239 last I checked:

rx6600 - Google Shopping

That is the same price as the rx580 was sold back in the day. Supply is plentiful. Prices are right. Customers are not interested.

also:
rx6500 @ $160

rx6500 - Google Shopping

rx6400 @ $149

rx6400 - Google Shopping

AMD has effectively done that. Nobody is buying them.

That is not what the market is interested in.

I was poking a bit at those capacity constraint claims by some. I have long argued that the opposite is true and that basically, AMD has no capacity constraints with regards to wafers at present.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Yet video card prices remain high. The market is screwed up and ripe for a reset.

 

[biostud]

I was poking a bit at those capacity constraint claims by some. I have long argued that the opposite is true and that basically, AMD has no capacity constraints with regards to wafers at present.

Unless they have an extremely high fault rate, which I don't believe. Or maybe the product did not behave as they wanted it to, so they decided not to flood the market with a dud?
If AMD really had a killer product in the product queue, they could and should have released it. But let's see what CES brings.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Off topic but related.
I really want to replace my 1050P monitor however as of now it is good enough and I certainly do not want to get on the high end video card bandwagon

 

[Tup3x]

AMD has effectively done that. Nobody is buying them.

That is not what the market is interested in.

gtx1080 msrp: $599
same performance today?: rx6600xt @ $329

buyers are not interested.

There's, what, five years in between those cards. Do you really think that people would be cheering after five years? It not exactly news that after half a decade lower end card offers same or faster performance than what some high end card did.

So no, that's not even close to what G92 and RV670 did. It's quite a bit different situation to release a revised version year after that would be about the same performance wise but be cheaper and use less power. That being said, it's obviously not going to happen since manufacturing process' do not allow that (well, unless NVIDIA somehow pulls another Maxwell).

 

[AnandThenMan]

I should probably make a thread about this. The sheer size and power draw of these GPUs has to limit the potential market you need a seriously well designed and cooled case, beefy power supply etc. etc. and the stupid thing is going to roast your room. Does not seem like a mass market design even it it was affordable.

Remember when a flagship GPU was $400? Probably not.

 

[biostud]

I should probably make a thread about this. The sheer size and power draw of these GPUs has to limit the potential market you need a seriously well designed and cooled case, beefy power supply etc. etc. and the stupid thing is going to roast your room. Does not seem like a mass market design even it it was affordable.

Remember when a flagship GPU was $400? Probably not.

I actually don’t mind that they put out expensive high end GPUs that consumes a lot of power, as long as they also sell more value oriented GPUs as well. And that is to me the main problem, that after the pandemic/mining craze that they continue to believe that the upper mid range cards are supposed to cost $800. No thank you.

 

[NTMBK]

I should probably make a thread about this. The sheer size and power draw of these GPUs has to limit the potential market you need a seriously well designed and cooled case, beefy power supply etc. etc. and the stupid thing is going to roast your room. Does not seem like a mass market design even it it was affordable.

Remember when a flagship GPU was $400? Probably not.

I remember when graphics cards didn't even have a fan.

Obviously those days are LONG gone, but the power consumption lately is just insane.

 

[biostud]

I remember when graphics cards didn't even have a fan.

Obviously those days are LONG gone, but the power consumption lately is just insane.

But the performamce/watt keeps increasing, so if that is a concern just buy a card that uses less power, or run it at lower power targets.

 

[mikeymikec]

Maybe

So basically they're using their monopoly to keep the prices up.
Intel get your **** together and ramp up the competition.

I guess the day has come when people are hoping for *Intel* to save them from price gouging

 

[alcoholbob]

No, attractive affordable gpus are available. Nobody is buying them.

Nvidia knows its market.



Your wrong, AMD is not supply constrained.

AMD manufactured enough low end products to fill the channel and then some
rx6600 @ $239 last I checked:

rx6600 - Google Shopping

That is the same price as the rx580 was sold back in the day. Supply is plentiful. Prices are right. Customers are not interested.

also:
rx6500 @ $160

rx6500 - Google Shopping

rx6400 @ $149

rx6400 - Google Shopping

AMD has effectively done that. Nobody is buying them.

That is not what the market is interested in.

gtx1080 msrp: $599
same performance today?: rx6600xt @ $329

buyers are not interested.

Why compare to the GTX 1080? The 1070 Ti is in the same class and was only $399…in 2017. 5 years later who wants to pay that much for the same level of performance?

 

[coercitiv]

RX 5700XT 2019 launch price - $399
RX 6600XT 2023 street price - $289 - 379+, with most offers around $350

Why aren't consumers interested in these attractive affordable GPUs?!

 

[NTMBK]

And here is the other side of the coin: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-intel-nvidia-slash-orders-to-tsmc

According to the report, virtually all TSMC clients will experience a downturn and have to cut orders, so TSMC's utilization will decline significantly in Q1 2023. For example, the utilization rate of TSMC's N7-capable lines (7nm, 6nm-class technologies) will decline to around 50% in early 2023. Furthermore, even TSMC's N5/N4-capable lines will be underutilized

TSMC are going to have to row back some of their price hikes too. Overinflated bubble prices for end products meant that TSMC increased prices so that they could get a bigger slice of that pie; things are coming back down to Earth now.

 

[lopri]

gtx1080 msrp: $599
same performance today?: rx6600xt @ $329

buyers are not interested.

I do not exactly get your argument but just wanted to point out that GTX 1080 is now almost 7 years old (come May). Those who wanted it would have gotten one.

 

[Tup3x]

I remember when graphics cards didn't even have a fan.

Obviously those days are LONG gone, but the power consumption lately is just insane.

This brings backs memories of Rage IIc... what a horrible product.

Oh yeah, powerpoint like performance. Ruined my childhood gaming experience.

After that RivaTNT 2 Pro came to rescue and I couldn't believe it - absolutely the largest performance boost that I've ever experienced. On top of that no more issues with games. It took quite some time before I tried ATI again and then that wasn't very good experience either (X1800 XT 256MB, then R9 290). X1800 XT 256MB lasted bit over one year and crapped out (somehow it only has one year warranty...). R9 290 I has like two or three months and then switched to GTX 780. R9 has high idle temps and black screen issues on top of that the games that I played worked better on GTX 780.