DeSantis trying to pass a law allowing him to bring defamation lawsuits against people who criticize him.

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Some might be oblivious, yes. But you are generalizing that to ALL Democrats by the sound of it, and playing the chicken little whose the only one who sees the truth that the sky is falling.

You admit that you're not 100% sure he'd succeed in an attempt to hang onto power when elected out, and I'm saying that the rest of us (here) aren't denying it as a possibility, just that it is highly unlikely. You won't recognize that we aren't completely in disagreement there, we simply aren't in complete agreement on the likeliness.

But you just keep screaming that everyone else in naïve, nobody is paying attention because everyone is oblivious, etc. etc. Instead of screaming at people that they're oblivious and naïve, maybe focus that energy into informing instead of lambasting. Just an idea.
Right. I think we all agree that republicans are a threat to democracy but I don’t agree that they are all remotely equal threats and I don’t agree in the inevitability of coup attempts.
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
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But he is getting them passed and implementing them.

1) Disney (although modified, even better version for him than originally discussed)
2) Stop Woke
3) Don't say gay
4) CRT
5) vaccine mandates

They're all passing. He doesn't care about what comes next.
Right. But I’m drawing a distinction between this current law he’s pushing and the ones you’ve listed above.

They all play well to his base but the difference is there’s no downsides to the above that will impact his politcal prospects much.

1. Disney? He figures they’ll suck It up because their massive FL infrastructure means they aren’t going anywhere.
2. Woke people aren’t voting for him or contributing to his campaign anyway
3. Gays and their ally’s aren’t voting for him or contributing to his campaign anyway
4. CRT - African Americans aren’t voting for him or contributing to his campaign anyway
5. Vaccine Mandates - pro vaccine folks aren’t voting for him or contributing to his campaign anyway.

What Desantis does care about is money, power, and his political future. He’s not going risk pissing off Fox & Murdoch who he needs help from, by opening them up to lawsuits from the left.

He might make a few moves towards getting it passed but at the first roadblock he’ll fold.

If he eventually does get elected president with a sympathetic congress what I just said is out the window but not until then. IMHO.
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
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I think it is you who is missing the point.

The SC is already playing Calvinball with many things a lot of intellectuals thought was 'off limits' before, because they don't realize how horrible conservatives are. I'm not saying it's 100% guaranteed this will become law, but DeSantis will certainly try to do it, and it has a fucking shot in today's environment - why have we not learned that yet. I think that is being swept under the rug. Why a lot of people were amazed Roe got overturned, but the writing was so clearly on the wall.

And I guarantee you if DeSantis became president, he would not just give up power in a fair election either. I think that is pretty plain as day as he has shown a ruthless disregard for basic decency in institutions.
SCOTUS absolutely plays Calvinball for conservative causes they support. The thing is they don’t support every cause from every conservative.

They just supported retaining a rule conservatives hate this week.


So my point is SCOUTS is going to play games but what SCOTUS thinks is in its best political interests and what Desantis thinks is in his best political interests (if he does push this law) aren’t necessarily the same thing, particularly in this case.

However as I said above if he gets elected president with a GOP majority in congress then all bets are off.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
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SCOTUS absolutely plays Calvinball for conservative causes they support. The thing is they don’t support every cause from every conservative.

They just supported retaining a rule conservatives hate this week.


So my point is SCOUTS is going to play games but what SCOTUS thinks is in its best political interests and what Desantis thinks is in his best political interests (if he does push this law) aren’t necessarily the same thing, particularly in this case.

However as I said above if he gets elected president with a GOP majority in congress then all bets are off.
I think this SCOTUS has proven they are well on their way. Now it was difficult to rule for Trump because he was such a clumsy buffoon that even they had some dignity but They have shown their true colors, they are just waiting for the right Republican to come. There is a very good chance of that.

I'm glad you acknowledge that the next Republican president and congress have a strong likelihood of overthrowing democracy.

All I'm trying to say is be prepared, because if people keep thinking it's not going to happen they'll be caught with their pants down.

Not only do we need to fight this fight better especially with messaging but also with laws, We have to be prepared for the eventuality that looks that it could be quite close of what to do when this country goes fascist. Each state needs to have a plan and coordinated together to have a quick and decisive response to any attempt.

If you listen to some people on this thread there is no preparation to make besides a preemptive strike, otherwise there's nothing to do. This is poppycock.
 

Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
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...I'm glad you acknowledge that the next Republican president and congress have a strong likelihood of overthrowing democracy...

...If you listen to some people on this thread there is no preparation to make besides a preemptive strike, otherwise there's nothing to do. This is poppycock.
Okay, now you're going full FDC here. Did you miss some meds today? :rolleyes:
 

Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,456
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Well you said all bets are off. I'm assuming you wouldn't want to make a bet if there wasn't a strong chance you'd lose
I think you unintentionally made that sentence a double-negative.

Anyway...that was Paratus who said bets would "be off", so you'll have to ask him for clarification.

What I gathered he meant was that if DeSantis took the WH AND had a GOP majority in congress, it would be a higher likeliness that fuckery would be attempted. He didn't say it was guaranteed, or even that it'd be more likely to happen than not. Just that he would no longer bet against it happening at all. He also didn't mention any and/or all Repubs who might take the WH doing the same.

You are still twisting words into other people's mouths and attributing things to them that they did not say. Do you really need to be "right" so badly? This was what I meant by my comment about going all FDC.
 
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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
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What Trump needs to do is make happy with DeSantis, bring DeSantis onboard as Trump's VP, then Trump will have his VP that will refuse to certify the next election.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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What Trump needs to do is make happy with DeSantis, bring DeSantis onboard as Trump's VP, then Trump will have his VP that will refuse to certify the next election.
The next election VP would be Harris. Also, I have a hard time seeing Trump picking DeSantis as his VP as Trump would be terrified of him overshadowing him.

Also, DeSantis (or someone else) is going to win, not Trump. Imminent indictment aside, even Trump doesn’t seem interested in him being president again.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
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I find it amazing that Democrats still think if someone showing true fascist colors like Ron from Florida gets power with the Republican congress they may not try any fuckery. As you say there's Just a chance. Not even guaranteed.

What a sad testament to Democrats that they have learned nothing and are so naive.

It's like sleeping through the last 5 years and every current event happening currently. You can't even keep up with the stories of the fascism in Florida happening. Taking over educational institutions from lower levels to higher education. Attacking corporations using government, for free speech. Altering the reality of history in schools. Making it a crime to call out someone for being homophobic or transphobic. And plenty more

And Democrats are still oblivious.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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I find it amazing that Democrats still think if someone showing true fascist colors like Ron from Florida gets power with the Republican congress they may not try any fuckery. As you say there's Just a chance. Not even guaranteed.

What a sad testament to Democrats that they have learned nothing and are so naive.

It's like sleeping through the last 5 years and every current event happening currently. You can't even keep up with the stories of the fascism in Florida happening. Taking over educational institutions from lower levels to higher education. Attacking corporations using government, for free speech. Altering the reality of history in schools. Making it a crime to call out someone for being homophobic or transphobic. And plenty more

And Democrats are still oblivious.
Have you considered the possibility that maybe everyone else isn’t wrong and you’re being hysterical?
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
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Have you considered the possibility that maybe everyone else isn’t wrong and you’re being hysterical?
Nope. And some Democrats get it who are in power now but they are not messaging correctly.

I still know Democrats who didn't think Trump could be that bad what myself and others were like oh it's can get really shitty. And you yourself had no idea the Republicans could become so fascist so quickly and you still repeating the same mistake which is really sad. And then a bunch of Democrats really they'd never actually overthrow Roe, and that happens at a bunch of other shady decisions.

I think being hysterical is not seeing exactly what's happening with the Republican party and the current two frontrunners and see exactly what they're setting the stage for.

I mean there's nothing new about ignorant intellectuals, history is littered with them missing the warning signs thinking oh this can't happen. Just like you didn't see 2020 coming. Which is okay except you've learned nothing from your mistake.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
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Nope. And some Democrats get it who are in power now but they are not messaging correctly.

I still know Democrats who didn't think Trump could be that bad what myself and others were like oh it's can get really shitty. And you yourself had no idea the Republicans could become so fascist so quickly and you still repeating the same mistake which is really sad. And then a bunch of Democrats really they'd never actually overthrow Roe, and that happens at a bunch of other shady decisions.

I think being hysterical is not seeing exactly what's happening with the Republican party and the current two frontrunners and see exactly what they're setting the stage for.

I mean there's nothing new about ignorant intellectuals, history is littered with them missing the warning signs thinking oh this can't happen. Just like you didn't see 2020 coming. Which is okay except you've learned nothing from your mistake.
DeSantis has shown no qualm about abusing his existing power. Him in the presidency would be infinitely worse. And I wouldn't call that a bet - I'd say it's guaranteed it will happen.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
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DeSantis has shown no qualm about abusing his existing power. Him in the presidency would be infinitely worse. And I wouldn't call that a bet - I'd say it's guaranteed it will happen.
Thank you. It's painfully obvious. I mean these people are literally telegraphing their intentions and we have people being like well, I don't know, I think they respect our institutions, they are just acting tough, there is no evidence that they're really going to do anything bad, maybe there might be a chance they won't, I don't know I don't really see much bad happening with these guys, definitely not enough to attack basic fundamental things. (Even though that's all they're doing all the time)

These people are fucking blind.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Nope. And some Democrats get it who are in power now but they are not messaging correctly.

I still know Democrats who didn't think Trump could be that bad what myself and others were like oh it's can get really shitty. And you yourself had no idea the Republicans could become so fascist so quickly and you still repeating the same mistake which is really sad. And then a bunch of Democrats really they'd never actually overthrow Roe, and that happens at a bunch of other shady decisions.

I think being hysterical is not seeing exactly what's happening with the Republican party and the current two frontrunners and see exactly what they're setting the stage for.

I mean there's nothing new about ignorant intellectuals, history is littered with them missing the warning signs thinking oh this can't happen. Just like you didn't see 2020 coming. Which is okay except you've learned nothing from your mistake.
Haha thank you for proving my point.
 
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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
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I think repubs will fall back to their usual long game plan before attempting a coup again. They need to get all the right people elected/appointed to the proper positions and then it’s game over if they get a full majority, how long that will take is hard to say, but they’re on it I’d bet.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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I think repubs will fall back to their usual long game plan before attempting a coup again. They need to get all the right people elected/appointed to the proper positions and then it’s game over if they get a full majority, how long that will take is hard to say, but they’re on it I’d bet.
Well we will see. I think a lot of it depends on how many people go to prison and who. As you know I think Trump will be indicted and I think probably several other members of his staff. If you send the plotters to prison the next group will think twice.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
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I think repubs will fall back to their usual long game plan before attempting a coup again. They need to get all the right people elected/appointed to the proper positions and then it’s game over if they get a full majority, how long that will take is hard to say, but they’re on it I’d bet.
They aren't showing any signs of slowing down. I think with someone more methodical and less erratic and buffoonish than Trump will be all they need and 4 years with the presidency and if they have Congress too, you think they're going to sit on their hands?

If anything the last couple of years have shown us they are just getting worse.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
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Well we will see. I think a lot of it depends on how many people go to prison and who. As you know I think Trump will be indicted and I think probably several other members of his staff. If you send the plotters to prison the next group will think twice.

That's cute I chuckled a bit. I thought Trump was getting indicted by end of last year or if not by March this year? 3 more days left in February so I think you missed again.

Trump will probably get indicted, but it might not even be for trying to overthrow Democracy, more for the classified documents. But nobody is going to jail anytime soon, and certainly not before the next election. I find it cute you think the hand of the law is going to send a bunch of Republicans to prison in time to scare off the current fascists.

Also, Trump is a bumbling fool with how he went about things, and he STILL almost did it. You think criminals are going to be scared of following in the footsteps of Trump? Is that what happens when people get caught, crime just stops? Nah, dedicated criminals will just find better ways to go about it - and these people are dedicated and far more methodical than Trump. You have faith in all the wrong people that is for sure. You think they will just back off. That's funny.

I have read the history of how countries have fallen to authoritarianism, and I still didn't quite get it until now. I am seeing the reasons now, because too many people are oblivious to what is going on, thinking justice will prevail and people will respect certain institutions and things will work out. I can show you thousands of years of history to prove you wrong.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,636
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That's cute I chuckled a bit. I thought Trump was getting indicted by end of last year or if not by March this year? 3 more days left in February so I think you missed again.

Trump will probably get indicted, but it might not even be for trying to overthrow Democracy, more for the classified documents. But nobody is going to jail anytime soon, and certainly not before the next election. I find it cute you think the hand of the law is going to send a bunch of Republicans to prison in time to scare off the current fascists.

Also, Trump is a bumbling fool with how he went about things, and he STILL almost did it. You think criminals are going to be scared of following in the footsteps of Trump? Is that what happens when people get caught, crime just stops? Nah, dedicated criminals will just find better ways to go about it - and these people are dedicated and far more methodical than Trump. You have faith in all the wrong people that is for sure. You think they will just back off. That's funny.

I have read the history of how countries have fallen to authoritarianism, and I still didn't quite get it until now. I am seeing the reasons now, because too many people are oblivious to what is going on, thinking justice will prevail and people will respect certain institutions and things will work out. I can show you thousands of years of history to prove you wrong.
I like how when I asked you if you even considered the idea you were wrong and you said no, haha.

Anyway, you’re welcome to your opinion, even though I think it’s hysterical nonsense. I don’t think you’re amenable to rational argument so I’m going to stop responding to you.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
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I like how when I asked you if you even considered the idea you were wrong and you said no, haha.

Anyway, you’re welcome to your opinion, even though I think it’s hysterical nonsense. I don’t think you’re amenable to rational argument so I’m going to stop responding to you.

The possibility of a DeSantis presidency and GQP in power of not trying to fuck with staying in power in 2028 is zero. Whether they would be successful or not is up for debate, but it is 100% guaranteed they will try. I mean he is telegraphing his moves with everything he is doing right now.

So when will Trump get indicted now and when are people going to set foot in a prison cell?
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
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Well we will see. I think a lot of it depends on how many people go to prison and who. As you know I think Trump will be indicted and I think probably several other members of his staff. If you send the plotters to prison the next group will think twice.
Maybe you didn't understand me, what I meant was they'll do it "legally" by having SoS appoint their own electors, etc. It'll only take a few key states and game over.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,636
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Maybe you didn't understand me, what I meant was they'll do it "legally" by having SoS appoint their own electors, etc. It'll only take a few key states and game over.
The Secretary of State doesn’t appoint electors.

Regardless, if you mean you think the states will put forward slates of electors other than those of the people who won the popular vote in their state yes, I think that would be the most plausible route for a coup. It’s definitely the game plan Trump was running - declare the vote was fraudulent and then provide alternate electors.

As to if that would succeed I’m not sure and it likely depends on a Republican already controlling the federal executive branch and being in on it, which is why I think sending these guys to prison is valuable. It’s important to send a signal that if you fail in your coup attempt you’re in deep shit.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,986
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You guys really need to start learning why people like guys like him. It's bothersome that people are still posting things like " I find it amazing people like this evil person"

This is why Democrats are going to be caught with their pants down. These people like his shittiness because they are shitty people. You need to understand the enemy. For all of human history people of underestimated the shittiness of other human beings and get caught completely unprepared.

It's time for people to realize, The reason these evil guys get popular is because his fans are also evil and feed off of it.

Why do you think the this guy won the last election by such a huge margin? A lot of fucking shitty people in Florida are our enemy and we're going to have to deal with at some point or we lose our freedoms.

This.

This is why I have zero fucks left to give over some right wing nut job's claim about how liberals are hurting their feels or some shit. Cause they never gave a rats ass about anyone else's feelings. They just want to continue being shitty people and will whine and complain if they are blocked from being jackasses.

This is also why I have zero fucks left to give to states that vote overwhelmingly against their own interest. Poor and no welfare checks? Too bad Mississippi. You made your bed. Now fucking sleep in it. The shitty people you vote in are the ones keeping you in a state of poverty.
 
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