DeSantis trying to pass a law allowing him to bring defamation lawsuits against people who criticize him.

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,636
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So in history there are no examples of fascist conservatives actually gutting institutions and overthrowing these types of norms? I mean there are tons of them literally.

How do people not learn from history anymore?

They think America is immune to this for some reason I'm really flabbergasted at this point considering what we've seen in the last 6 years especially.
Again, I think you are struggling to identify major threats from trivial ones. Trump is a threat to overthrow democracy. Plenty of other republicans aren’t. If you treat them all the same then when the real threat comes nobody believes you.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
Your mind is broken dude.

I expressed my opinion that fskimo makes more sense than you do. You expressed your opinion that he was not accurately evaluating the threat. Perhaps I should have just said your mind is broken. :)
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
Again, I think you are struggling to identify major threats from trivial ones. Trump is a threat to overthrow democracy. Plenty of other republicans aren’t. If you treat them all the same then when the real threat comes nobody believes you.

You don't think DeSantis is a threat? He is trivial? Is that what you are saying here because he is the subject here I am clearly talking about. Just to clarify.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,636
50,863
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You don't think DeSantis is a threat? He is trivial? Is that what you are saying here because he is the subject here I am clearly talking about. Just to clarify.
I am saying that DeSantis’s stupid law here is a trivial threat, yes. Also as I’ve said before I think if he loses he will leave office.

Better to prioritize threats than freak out about everything. It’s a big strategic mistake.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,284
9,113
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You don't think DeSantis is a threat? He is trivial? Is that what you are saying here because he is the subject here I am clearly talking about. Just to clarify.

I think it depends on how you plot each of them on a risk management matrix.

For me, DeSantis is a lower probability/higher impact than Trump. Lower probability because he's yet to prove he can win nationally and higher impact because he appears to be a more capable true believer in his fascist/anti-democratic tendencies. In one cycle, he's gone from barely winning the FL governors race to basically a full on strongman stranglehold on the state with no signs of anything stopping him.

To put it another way, if he gets elected I feel he can do way more damage in office than Trump would.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,185
2,232
136
Next up.

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — The DeSantis administration now requires events held at the Florida state Capitol to “align” with its mission, a recent change that is sparking concerns that the governor’s office is trying to censor events it doesn’t like.

The Department of Management Services, the administration department that oversees state facilities, over the past few months has changed rules for groups or individuals who want to reserve space inside the Capitol. The changes require organizations seeking to reserve areas to make their requests through specific administration officials or legislative leaders and require they line up with the mission of the state.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
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I think it depends on how you plot each of them on a risk management matrix.

For me, DeSantis is a lower probability/higher impact than Trump. Lower probability because he's yet to prove he can win nationally and higher impact because he appears to be a more capable true believer in his fascist/anti-democratic tendencies. In one cycle, he's gone from barely winning the FL governors race to basically a full on strongman stranglehold on the state with no signs of anything stopping him.

To put it another way, if he gets elected I feel he can do way more damage in office than Trump would.

agreed, and some people are clearly oblivious to all this. But as his reelection numbers in FL show he is someone to watch out for. It's unbelievable to me how people are too oblivious to see what he has been doing down in Florida and winning by doing it, and they think he is a trivial threat and will respect our institutions just like that.

Intellectual Democrats are fucking naive, and history shows that repeatedly. I know a lot of intellectual Dems that were like NO WAY THEY OVERTHROW ROE. I'm like watch them do it. And they did it.

Myself and others said the R's are fucking fascists and they said it's not that bad, and then they literally got super close to overthrowing democracy, and the best these Dems could say is, well I didn't quite see that coming. And then continue to be oblivious right after, again.
 
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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,284
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agreed, and some people are clearly oblivious to all this. But as his reelection numbers in FL show he is someone to watch out for. It's unbelievable to me how people are too oblivious to see what he has been doing down in Florida and winning by doing it, and they think he is a trivial threat and will respect our institutions just like that.

Intellectual Democrats are fucking naive, and history shows that repeatedly. I know a lot of intellectual Dems that were like NO WAY THEY OVERTHROW ROE. I'm like watch them do it. And they did it.

Myself and others said the R's are fucking fascists and they said it's not that bad, and then they literally got super close to overthrowing democracy, and the best these Dems could say is, well I didn't quite see that coming. And then continue to be oblivious right after, again.

He's already shown no respect for the 1st amendment with the whole Disney bit. And he appears to have come out of that a full on winner as he now controls the district and suffered none of the debt/tax related consequences. I don't know how anyone can make an argument that he'd "respect the institutions blah blah" while disagreeing with how he went about that situation.

They need to do everything they can to pre-preemptively burn him to the ground before it's too late. I have a feeling that Trump has likely already worn out his welcome on his own, at least enough so in terms of winning another general against Biden. So not as much effort needed there. The rest of the field doesn't even matter electorally.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
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He's already shown no respect for the 1st amendment with the whole Disney bit. And he appears to have come out of that a full on winner as he now controls the district and suffered none of the debt/tax related consequences. I don't know how anyone can make an argument that he'd "respect the institutions blah blah" while disagreeing with how he went about that situation.

Agreed. I find it amazing that people can't see the massive writing on the wall in front of them. I can only chalk it up to a serious amount of naivety and obliviousness to the actual reality of things that have been and are happening around us as we speak. I mean the guy is literally telegraphing his intentions to not respect precedent or democratic institutions (punishing Disney for exercising free speech) or educational institutions (fighting history, AP testing, banning books and topics) or discrimination (making it a crime to call someone bigoted or biased about sexuality is on the table, gay teachers can't even have a photo of their spouse). He is attacking all of them.

'oh no, he is going to respect our crucial institutions'

the cognitive dissonance is astounding.

I think a lot of elitist and intellectual Dems are too busy living in their little castles making high six figures or more and oblivious to the shit going down around them.
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,117
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He's already shown no respect for the 1st amendment with the whole Disney bit. And he appears to have come out of that a full on winner as he now controls the district and suffered none of the debt/tax related consequences. I don't know how anyone can make an argument that he'd "respect the institutions blah blah" while disagreeing with how he went about that situation.

They need to do everything they can to pre-preemptively burn him to the ground before it's too late. I have a feeling that Trump has likely already worn out his welcome on his own, at least enough so in terms of winning another general against Biden. So not as much effort needed there. The rest of the field doesn't even matter electorally.
Agreed. I find it amazing that people can't see the massive writing on the wall in front of them. I can only chalk it up to a serious amount of naivety and obliviousness to the actual reality of things that have been and are happening around us as we speak. I mean the guy is literally telegraphing his intentions to not respect precedent or democratic institutions (punishing Disney for exercising free speech) or educational institutions (fighting history, AP testing, banning books and topics) or discrimination (making it a crime to call someone bigoted or biased about sexuality is on the table, gay teachers can't even have a photo of their spouse). He is attacking all of them.

'oh no, he is going to respect our crucial institutions'

the cognitive dissonance is astounding.

I think a lot of elitist and intellectual Dems are too busy living in their little castles making high six figures or more and oblivious to the shit going down around them.
I think you guys are missing the point. He’s not going to “respect the institution”. Everyone here knows that, yes @fskimospy too.

What’s being said is does his stated desire to pass a law effectively outlawing criticism of him actually mean he’s going to get that law passed.

First thing is simply stating he wants it will play well with his base because as you say they are mostly deplorable. It plays the culture war card and doesn’t cost him anything he cares about. Win-Win for Desantis.

But actually implementing it has a shit ton of unintended consequences. It would let left leaning politicians bring the judicial hammer down on rightwing media just as he could on left wing critics.

If that happens rightwing power brokers & media will turn on him for fucking up their business. To prevent that from happening he’d have to pass the law basically stating only conservatives can sue. This wouldn’t be saying the quiet part out loud. This would be screaming fascism from the rooftops.

Then he’s got to defend it in court. Conservatives don’t control every court so he could lose. If he takes to the Supreme Court they would have to get on the roof top and scream fascism with him which is actually unlikely. Or they do but Biden still controls the federal government and the military and hello constitutional crisis.

Oh and Trump will be attacking him every step of the way splitting Desantis’s base.

So which is more likely here?
 
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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
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I think you guys are missing the point. He’s not going to “respect the institution”. Everyone here knows that, yes @fskimospy too.

What’s being said is does his stated desire to pass a law effectively outlawing criticism of him actually mean he’s going to get that law passed.

First thing is simply stating he wants it will play well with his base because as you say they are mostly deplorable. It plays the culture war card and doesn’t cost him anything he cares about. Win-Win for Desantis.

But actually implementing it has a shit ton of unintended consequences. It would let left leaning politicians bring the judicial hammer down on rightwing media just as he could on left wing critics.

If that happens rightwing power brokers & media will turn on him for fucking up their business. To prevent that from happening he’d have to pass the law basically stating only conservatives can sue. This wouldn’t be saying the quiet part out loud. This would be screaming fascism from the rooftops.

Then he’s got to defend it in court. Conservatives don’t control every court so he could lose. If he takes to the Supreme Court they would have to get on the roof top and scream fascism with him which is actually unlikely. Or they do but Biden still controls the federal government and the military and hello constitutional crisis.

Oh and Trump will be attacking him every step of the way splitting Desantis’s base.

So which is more likely here?

But he is getting them passed and implementing them.

1) Disney (although modified, even better version for him than originally discussed)
2) Stop Woke
3) Don't say gay
4) CRT
5) vaccine mandates

They're all passing. He doesn't care about what comes next.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,939
7,459
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Trump hijacked the base of the Repub party through the use of outrageous lies and blatantly false promises all of it aimed at stoking the emotions of his supporters where facts and truths have no bearing, no significance toward his chances of winning elections.

DeSantis has done the same thing in Florida. As with Trump, once having the emotionally driven support of the far right followers within the party, there is no limit to which DeSantis can rely on the lies and fascist propaganda he has been spreading in his effort to out-do Trump in his state. He has the goons of the party backing his play and the more he is criticized from outside Florida the more his Florida supporters rally around him, dragging the party's faithful along with them. He started a fire and all he had to do is watch it spread, throwing gas on it as needed.

The only question left to answer is if he can jump-start that fire in those other states that are still loyal to Trump.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
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I think you guys are missing the point. He’s not going to “respect the institution”. Everyone here knows that, yes @fskimospy too.

What’s being said is does his stated desire to pass a law effectively outlawing criticism of him actually mean he’s going to get that law passed.

First thing is simply stating he wants it will play well with his base because as you say they are mostly deplorable. It plays the culture war card and doesn’t cost him anything he cares about. Win-Win for Desantis.

But actually implementing it has a shit ton of unintended consequences. It would let left leaning politicians bring the judicial hammer down on rightwing media just as he could on left wing critics.

If that happens rightwing power brokers & media will turn on him for fucking up their business. To prevent that from happening he’d have to pass the law basically stating only conservatives can sue. This wouldn’t be saying the quiet part out loud. This would be screaming fascism from the rooftops.

Then he’s got to defend it in court. Conservatives don’t control every court so he could lose. If he takes to the Supreme Court they would have to get on the roof top and scream fascism with him which is actually unlikely. Or they do but Biden still controls the federal government and the military and hello constitutional crisis.

Oh and Trump will be attacking him every step of the way splitting Desantis’s base.

So which is more likely here?

I think it is you who is missing the point.

The SC is already playing Calvinball with many things a lot of intellectuals thought was 'off limits' before, because they don't realize how horrible conservatives are. I'm not saying it's 100% guaranteed this will become law, but DeSantis will certainly try to do it, and it has a fucking shot in today's environment - why have we not learned that yet. I think that is being swept under the rug. Why a lot of people were amazed Roe got overturned, but the writing was so clearly on the wall.

And I guarantee you if DeSantis became president, he would not just give up power in a fair election either. I think that is pretty plain as day as he has shown a ruthless disregard for basic decency in institutions.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
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Trump hijacked the base of the Repub party through the use of outrageous lies and blatantly false promises all of it aimed at stoking the emotions of his supporters where facts and truths have no bearing, no significance toward his chances of winning elections.

DeSantis has done the same thing in Florida. As with Trump, once having the emotionally driven support of the far right followers within the party, there is no limit to which DeSantis can rely on the lies and fascist propaganda he has been spreading in his effort to out-do Trump in his state. He has the goons of the party backing his play and the more he is criticized from outside Florida the more his Florida supporters rally around him, dragging the party's faithful along with them. He started a fire and all he had to do is watch it spread, throwing gas on it as needed.

The only question left to answer is if he can jump-start that fire in those other states that are still loyal to Trump.

But don't worry, DeSantis will clearly know when to stop lighting fires. I mean he is clearly respecting the basic institutions we have already amirite?
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
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I don’t. I was responding with a method for the White House to fight back against all the bullshit from conservatives
Cool.
I think you guys are missing the point. He’s not going to “respect the institution”. Everyone here knows that, yes @fskimospy too.

What’s being said is does his stated desire to pass a law effectively outlawing criticism of him actually mean he’s going to get that law passed.

First thing is simply stating he wants it will play well with his base because as you say they are mostly deplorable. It plays the culture war card and doesn’t cost him anything he cares about. Win-Win for Desantis.

But actually implementing it has a shit ton of unintended consequences. It would let left leaning politicians bring the judicial hammer down on rightwing media just as he could on left wing critics.

If that happens rightwing power brokers & media will turn on him for fucking up their business. To prevent that from happening he’d have to pass the law basically stating only conservatives can sue. This wouldn’t be saying the quiet part out loud. This would be screaming fascism from the rooftops.

Then he’s got to defend it in court. Conservatives don’t control every court so he could lose. If he takes to the Supreme Court they would have to get on the roof top and scream fascism with him which is actually unlikely. Or they do but Biden still controls the federal government and the military and hello constitutional crisis.

Oh and Trump will be attacking him every step of the way splitting Desantis’s base.

So which is more likely here?
Yup. In my opinion the greater success DeSantis in Florida the less chance he will have getting elected nation wide. he is fast gaining a reputation as a worthless asshole.
 

Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,456
12,989
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But don't worry, DeSantis will clearly know when to stop lighting fires. I mean he is clearly respecting the basic institutions we have already amirite?
Settle down, Francis.
I think you're just ranting to rant, but I'm not sure whom at. It was already said a few posts back that that was not the statement that was being made.

We all (here) know that he has no respect for our institutions, and will trample them as much as allowed. Why do you keep putting those words in others mouths? No one else has been claiming that.

Capture.PNG
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
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Exactly. This is performative nonsense. If conservatives ever really got their way on this it would mean the end of conservative media.

I don't know if he's considering the consequences to conservative media. I think he considers only himself and what boosts him politically. He doesn't care if the law is later thrown out. You're right that everything he does is performative. This is one particularly authoritarian, however. He might not be any better than Trump. Could even be worse.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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I don't know if he's considering the consequences to conservative media. I think he considers only himself and what boosts him politically.
I completely agree.

He doesn't care if the law is later thrown out. You're right that everything he does is performative. This is one particularly authoritarian, however. He might not be any better than Trump. Could even be worse.
I think DeSantis is terrible and that he is comfortable wielding government power in really destructive ways, yes. I haven’t seen much indication that means he would attempt a coup if defeated though.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
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I completely agree.


I think DeSantis is terrible and that he is comfortable wielding government power in really destructive ways, yes. I haven’t seen much indication that means he would attempt a coup if defeated though.
No, he'll just preemptively push as many buttons as possible to make sure Republicans never lose elections again.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
30,521
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What would that mean, specifically?
More gerrymandering, perhaps pushed onto blue states by federal mandate, more voter suppression, again mandated at the federal level, bans on mail-in voting, federally mandated voter registration purges, etc. etc. All the same tricks pushed more aggressively at the federal level and rubber stamped by Trump's SCOTUS.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
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More gerrymandering, perhaps pushed onto blue states by federal mandate, more voter suppression, again mandated at the federal level, bans on mail-in voting, federally mandated voter registration purges, etc. etc. All the same tricks pushed more aggressively at the federal level and rubber stamped by Trump's SCOTUS.

DeSantis won't bring a crowd of rednecks to the capitol, he is going to do a bloodless coup -as you say before the election, and if he loses, I know he will do it after the election. All bureaucratically though. And way more organized than Trump. He is a bigger thread to democracy than Trump, and people thinks he will respect our democracy.

I am not sure how anybody could think DeSantis respects any of our institutions anymore except as a way to wield power to get power.