DeSantis now dictating school curriculums from the capital of Florida

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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
We should be clear that DeSantis is doing this for attention. He doesn’t actually care behind that.

What's your point? He will attempt to gain power via anything he has to do - and if that means disrespecting or dismantling our institutions or decency, he will gladly do it. Why are you making excuses for him like 'oh this is all for attention' - except the laws passing are literally really affecting tons of people in Florida.

Who cares why he is doing what and also you really don't know what he thinks. He was a super regressive member of Congress, it's not like he has these moderate roots or anything.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,284
9,113
136
What's your point? He will attempt to gain power via anything he has to do - and if that means disrespecting or dismantling our institutions or decency, he will gladly do it. Why are you making excuses for him like 'oh this is all for attention' - except the laws passing are literally really affecting tons of people in Florida.

Who cares why he is doing what and also you really don't know what he thinks. He was a super regressive member of Congress, it's not like he has these moderate roots or anything.

Yeah, it doesn't matter WHY he's doing it. The point is that he is doing it, and that he's succeeding in doing it. Hell, even his Disney revenge worked out better than he intended. He got more than he wanted in that he now controls who runs the district while Disney is still on the hook for the debt.

I don't care if he's doing it on a dare or as a gag, they're bad policies that are being put in place that are going to end up harming people.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
50,863
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What's your point? He will attempt to gain power via anything he has to do - and if that means disrespecting or dismantling our institutions or decency, he will gladly do it. Why are you making excuses for him like 'oh this is all for attention' - except the laws passing are literally really affecting tons of people in Florida.

Who cares why he is doing what and also you really don't know what he thinks. He was a super regressive member of Congress, it's not like he has these moderate roots or anything.
My point is obvious and I've made it numerous times - you give him exactly the reaction he wants so you're playing into his hands. If you in the New York area want to get outraged by it that makes him even happier because 1) Republican primary voters already don't like you and 2) you have zero ability to change these policies.

He's playing you.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
Yeah, it doesn't matter WHY he's doing it. The point is that he is doing it, and that he's succeeding in doing it. Hell, even his Disney revenge worked out better than he intended. He got more than he wanted in that he now controls who runs the district while Disney is still on the hook for the debt.

I don't care if he's doing it on a dare or as a gag, they're bad policies that are being put in place that are going to end up harming people.
Yes but they will earn him a NY Proud Boy welcome if and when he goes national. I see him as digging his own grave.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
My point is obvious and I've made it numerous times - you give him exactly the reaction he wants so you're playing into his hands. If you in the New York area want to get outraged by it that makes him even happier because 1) Republican primary voters already don't like you and 2) you have zero ability to change these policies.

He's playing you.

So now we can't get outraged against actual laws that are discriminating against people and corporations because he is playing a mind game?

I mean what are you on about. I don't care what his motivation is, he is doing things that are literally extremely unethical that are actually affecting many citizens, and I should be outraged, I could care less that you think this is all performative and he won't really dismantle our core values and institutions, while he literally does it. And as I stated, he was never some moderate GQP, he was always a far right lunatic when he was in Congress. I dunno why you even want to give him any sort of pass of who he is inside, it's like this weird thing you have to believe in.

Oy. This is unreal.

also if I have zero ability to change these policies, I should just say fuck it? Man you would have been great for the progress of humanity when the only thing that has really changed things for the better in the last few hundred years are people fighting for things they were powerless to change, until they made that change.

This is why you will let fascists take over this country because you have no grasp of what is actually going on and what has happened repeatedly throughout history.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
50,863
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So now we can't get outraged against actual laws that are discriminating against people and corporations because he is playing a mind game?

I mean what are you on about. I don't care what his motivation is, he is doing things that are literally extremely unethical that are actually affecting many citizens, and I should be outraged, I could care less that you think this is all performative and he won't really dismantle our core values and institutions, while he literally does it. And as I stated, he was never some moderate GQP, he was always a far right lunatic when he was in Congress. I dunno why you even want to give him any sort of pass of who he is inside, it's like this weird thing you have to believe in.

Oy. This is unreal.
Okay - so keep getting played and keep helping him amass more power so long as it makes you feel good to take actions that do nothing to change a single action he takes.

You mistake me saying 'don't be an idiot' for 'give DeSantis a pass'.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
Okay - so keep getting played and keep helping him amass more power so long as it makes you feel good to take actions that do nothing to change a single action he takes.

You mistake me saying 'don't be an idiot' for 'give DeSantis a pass'.

You are saying don't be outraged or angry at a guy literally oppressing people. I mean what do you think motivates people to vote. You think 80 million people loved Biden that much they voted for him? Hell no, So many of his votes came from folks who were outraged and mad at Trump.

Do you still think Desantis is going to respect our institutions and values of a free country if he gets more power btw? Yes or no.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
50,863
136
You are saying don't be outraged or angry at a guy literally oppressing people. I mean what do you think motivates people to vote. You think 80 million people loved Biden that much they voted for him? Hell no, So many of his votes came from folks who were outraged and mad at Trump.
And guess what, unlike with Trump you can't vote in the election he's running in! (the Republican primary) The more you yell about it the better it is for him in the primary so if you want him to win then by all means keep doing what you're doing. Like I said, he's playing you and he's not even being subtle about it.

In case it isn't obvious to people they should ask themselves why he spends all his time complaining about woke shit and none of it talking about his desire to massively cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. It's because all his other policies are super unpopular but Republican primary voters love culture war! Really want to defeat this would be tyrant? Get people to focus on that shit instead of drag queen story hour.

It is baffling to me how people can not understand his incredibly transparent game.

Do you still think Desantis is going to respect our institutions and values of a free country if he gets more power btw? Yes or no.
I'm not even sure what that question means. Can you operationalize this somehow?

Are you back to the coup thing again? If so as we've discussed your answer is clear and there's no need to talk about it further.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,017
8,545
136
Yes, you are being played with the all outrage all the time about the Republican culture war. They go all in on the culture war shit because IT'S ALL THEY HAVE. DeSantis culture war policies are not popular at all, and not as popular as you think in Florida. In the midterms, Democrats spent three times more than Republicans on television ads touting bipartisanship. By contrast, Republicans went on offense, spending upwards of 10 times more than Democrats on ads with the words “extremist” and “radical.” They need to tackle this tactic head on rather than dismissing it. Call them out and make them explain themselves. Outrage is click bait. Outrage garners headlines. Outrage taps deep into our emotional cores to increase loyalty to our own tribe while escalating animosity of the other side. The so-called culture wars are a symptom of the bigger problem of polarization and tribalism that has taken our country hostage. AND ... not all Republican culture warriors did as well during the midterm elections and a predicted red wave failed to materialize.

When Republicans go after Democrats as too “woke,” what they’re really doing is painting the party as too elite. They claim "wokeness" was cooked up by college professors, then boosted by corporations so they are the elitists. They frame the Democrats’ agenda as “shaped entirely by corporate interests and radical, elite cultural mores.” This is cynical but savvy messaging, and it points to a real problem for Democrats. It paints them as out of touch with workers and people who are struggling to make ends meet. But it's really just the opposite. The GOP culture war attacks are so far removed from the daily concerns of working people that they are more interested in “virtue-signaling” than kitchen table issues that really matter to people.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
50,863
136
Yes, you are being played with the all outrage all the time about the Republican culture war. They go all in on the culture war shit because IT'S ALL THEY HAVE. DeSantis culture war policies are not popular at all, and not as popular as you think in Florida. In the midterms, Democrats spent three times more than Republicans on television ads touting bipartisanship. By contrast, Republicans went on offense, spending upwards of 10 times more than Democrats on ads with the words “extremist” and “radical.” They need to tackle this tactic head on rather than dismissing it. Call them out and make them explain themselves. Outrage is click bait. Outrage garners headlines. Outrage taps deep into our emotional cores to increase loyalty to our own tribe while escalating animosity of the other side. The so-called culture wars are a symptom of the bigger problem of polarization and tribalism that has taken our country hostage. AND ... not all Republican culture warriors did as well during the midterm elections and a predicted red wave failed to materialize.

When Republicans go after Democrats as too “woke,” what they’re really doing is painting the party as too elite. They claim "wokeness" was cooked up by college professors, then boosted by corporations so they are the elitists. They frame the Democrats’ agenda as “shaped entirely by corporate interests and radical, elite cultural mores.” This is cynical but savvy messaging, and it points to a real problem for Democrats. It paints them as out of touch with workers and people who are struggling to make ends meet. The GOP culture war attacks are so far removed from the daily concerns of working people that they are more interested in “virtue-signaling” than kitchen table issues that really matter to people.
Yes, when DeSantis says 'Democrats want your kids to get read stories by drag queens' the correct response is to say 'you voted to cut those kids' health care so they will die'. It is not to get into a spirited back and forth about the merits of drag queen story hour because again, that's exactly what they want.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
And guess what, unlike with Trump you can't vote in the election he's running in! (the Republican primary) The more you yell about it the better it is for him in the primary so if you want him to win then by all means keep doing what you're doing. Like I said, he's playing you and he's not even being subtle about it.

In case it isn't obvious to people they should ask themselves why he spends all his time complaining about woke shit and none of it talking about his desire to massively cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. It's because all his other policies are super unpopular but Republican primary voters love culture war! Really want to defeat this would be tyrant? Get people to focus on that shit instead of drag queen story hour.

It is baffling to me how people can not understand his incredibly transparent game.


I'm not even sure what that question means. Can you operationalize this somehow?

Are you back to the coup thing again? If so as we've discussed your answer is clear and there's no need to talk about it further.

So what are the rules - we can't make judgements on politics outside our local officials we can vote in, and then only for any federal elections? If we can't be concerned with anything not happening outside our state, we should not really show any care for things happening outside of the USA too. So by your rules, when can we express disappointment and anger and critique things like the GQP is doing or what evil politicians are doing? Please can you give us a bullet point list of when we can be upset and say something?

Also, respecting our core institutions does mean democracy itself, but also just other core institutions and values we have, they are also quite important. Do you think DeSantis or another GQP'er like him would respect these things if they acquired more power?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,225
10,877
136
What's your point? He will attempt to gain power via anything he has to do - and if that means disrespecting or dismantling our institutions or decency, he will gladly do it. Why are you making excuses for him like 'oh this is all for attention' - except the laws passing are literally really affecting tons of people in Florida.

Who cares why he is doing what and also you really don't know what he thinks. He was a super regressive member of Congress, it's not like he has these moderate roots or anything.
How is saying he doesn't really give a shit about a policy he promotes, giving Ron a pass.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
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So what are the rules - we can't make judgements on politics outside our local officials we can vote in, and then only for any federal elections? If we can't be concerned with anything not happening outside our state, we should not really show any care for things happening outside of the USA too. So by your rules, when can we express disappointment and anger and critique things like the GQP is doing or what evil politicians are doing? Please can you give us a bullet point list of when we can be upset and say something?

Also, respecting our core institutions does mean democracy itself, but also just other core institutions and values we have, they are also quite important. Do you think DeSantis or another GQP'er like him would respect these things if they acquired more power?
You can do whatever you want, you should just be aware you're being played.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
You can do whatever you want, you should just be aware you're being played.
Got you. So we can't really have upset opinions about anything if they're not hyper local or on the ballot in the federal election in the US. Fascinating perspective.

It's funny you keep thinking we're getting played when all the people being affected by these laws certainly don't feel played, they actually feel real terrible effects from them. But we can't express empathy for them via being upset and saying so, unless we live in Florida.

Can we care when Ron DeSantis declares his candidacy for the presidency? I mean he's already a favorite with very powerful people in the GQP and donors so it's too soon but when can we start?
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
How is saying he doesn't really give a shit about a policy he promotes, giving Ron a pass.
I'm needling him because he has stated that he is convinced Ron DeSantis would respect our core institutions if he got more power. Such as democracy and others. He is convinced this is just Ron playing an act so we don't really have to be too concerned about him doing too much bad if he were to become president, with big things like say democracy and freedom and those kind of things.
 
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Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,456
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I'm needling him because he has stated that he is convinced Ron DeSantis would respect our core institutions if he got more power. Such as democracy and others. He is convinced this is just Ron playing an act so we don't really have to be too concerned about him doing too much bad if he were to become president, with big things like say democracy and freedom and those kind of things.
:rolleyes:

This is the message you have been attributing to him for weeks, but I do not recall him saying this. It's an exaggerated generalization you created and claimed that he said in order to drive your 'argument'.

Why do you persist in doing this?

Can you quote where he said it, without cherry-picking something out of context? Because I couldn't find anything he posted that comes close to those statements you keep claiming in order to vilify him as some bad, ignorant Democrat.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
50,863
136
:rolleyes:

This is the message you have been attributing to him for weeks, but I do not recall him saying this. It's an exaggerated generalization you created and claimed that he said in order to drive your 'argument'.

Why do you persist in doing this?

Can you quote where he said it, without cherry-picking something out of context? Because I couldn't find anything he posted that comes close to those statements you keep claiming in order to vilify him as some bad, ignorant Democrat.
The furthest I’ve said is I don’t think DeSantis would try a coup if defeated.

It’s all deeply silly.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
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I'm needling him because he has stated that he is convinced Ron DeSantis would respect our core institutions if he got more power. Such as democracy and others. He is convinced this is just Ron playing an act so we don't really have to be too concerned about him doing too much bad if he were to become president, with big things like say democracy and freedom and those kind of things.
If you are attempting to needle me you are doing a bad job, haha.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
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:rolleyes:

This is the message you have been attributing to him for weeks, but I do not recall him saying this. It's an exaggerated generalization you created and claimed that he said in order to drive your 'argument'.

Why do you persist in doing this?

Can you quote where he said it, without cherry-picking something out of context? Because I couldn't find anything he posted that comes close to those statements you keep claiming in order to vilify him as some bad, ignorant Democrat.
Besides the fact he thinks Ron would respect democracy I asked him so what other core institutions do you think he will respect and I named some. He refuses to answer. I think we know why.

He keeps reiterating that Ron doesn't believe everything he's saying he's acting, like that's supposed to make any difference whatsoever. Remember the last guy who was president? He was acting plenty of it, he knew a lot of the shit he said was bullshit.

I'm just trying to figure out when we could start worrying about Ron and the policies he is normalizing within his party to garner the most support for his run for the presidency - to where we can actually express it.

Also I wonder how he knows exactly how much Ron DeSantis is pretending because he was always a very regressive far right wing congressman. Where's the evidence he is just acting?
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
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Besides the fact he thinks Ron would respect democracy I asked him so what other core institutions do you think he will respect and I named some. He refuses to answer. I think we know why.

He keeps reiterating that Ron doesn't believe everything he's saying he's acting, like that's supposed to make any difference whatsoever. Remember the last guy who was president? He was acting plenty of it, he knew a lot of the shit he said was bullshit.

I'm just trying to figure out when we could start worrying about Ron and the policies he is normalizing within his party to garner the most support for his run for the presidency - to where we can actually express it.
So you haven’t understood anything I’ve said. I’m saying precisely if you do think this you should stop playing into his hands.

DeSantis’s real agenda is massive cuts to the social safety net combined with tax cuts for the rich people. He can’t advertise that because if he did he would lose so he waves this red flag and you charge at it.

I’m trying to help you. If you feel like what you’re doing will be effective by all means keep doing it. I don’t know why you keep trying to talk shit though - you will never succeed in making me mad and you make yourself look silly and unreasonable.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
So you haven’t understood anything I’ve said. I’m saying precisely if you do think this you should stop playing into his hands.

DeSantis’s real agenda is massive cuts to the social safety net combined with tax cuts for the rich people. He can’t advertise that because if he did he would lose so he waves this red flag and you charge at it.

I’m trying to help you. If you feel like what you’re doing will be effective by all means keep doing it. I don’t know why you keep trying to talk shit though - you will never succeed in making me mad and you make yourself look silly and unreasonable.
The only person that looks silly is someone who doesn't think Ron and other candidates like him are any threat to big core institutions and values.

Of course One of his big goals is to trash our social safety nets that we do have. What is your point? That's just one of many goals. It's also sad that you don't think they will step on any major institutions to get to that goal. And it's funny you don't think that the culture war issues that he is creating these laws don't matter just because he actually has a different bigger goal. They're still affecting people right now in the State of Florida and many other states where these similar types of laws are being passed.

Why does it matter if they're just using these issues to help leverage them into power for other dastardly goals, because these issues are actually drastically affecting real life Americans.

It's amazing you don't want us to be angry and upset about seriously regressive and oppressive laws that someone is willing to implement in order to gain power.

And again why don't you think Ron believes in any of this stuff? Do you know his track record as a congressman? He was extremely extremely far right and regressive. You're talking about him like he doesn't really believe all this stuff he's just acting. Please show us where in his record these types of positions are just acting.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
50,863
136
The only person that looks silly is someone who doesn't think Ron and other candidates like him are any threat to big core institutions and values.

Of course One of his big goals is to trash our social safety nets that we do have. What is your point? That's just one of many goals. It's also sad that you don't think they will step on any major institutions to get to that goal. And it's funny you don't think that the culture war issues that he is creating these laws don't matter just because he actually has a different bigger goal. They're still affecting people right now in the State of Florida and many other states where these similar types of laws are being passed.

Why does it matter if they're just using these issues to help leverage them into power for other dastardly goals, because these issues are actually drastically affecting real life Americans.

It's amazing you don't want us to be angry and upset about seriously regressive and oppressive laws that someone is willing to implement in order to gain power.

And again why don't you think Ron believes in any of this stuff? Do you know his track record as a congressman? He was extremely extremely far right and regressive. You're talking about him like he doesn't really believe all this stuff he's just acting. Please show us where in his record these types of positions are just acting.
I’ve already explained this and I don’t know how to explain it any better. It has nothing to do with what I think he genuinely believes.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
I’ve already explained this and I don’t know how to explain it any better. It has nothing to do with what I think he genuinely believes.
Whatever you think it's clearly nonsense because we should be very concerned about many states, not just Florida, who are implementing these horrific laws, regardless of ultimately they have even bigger goals such as social security and Medicare, which we all know anyway, you're not in the know somehow here telling us a secret..

I find it sad that you don't think it's okay to worry about laws that are right now seriously discriminating against Americans because they're just trying to get us upset. If they were just trying to get us upset they would actually just say things but not do them. But here we see around us they are actually doing them and you are telling us to be calm.

You are literally a poster boy for how the most horrific people ever came into power doing lots of little horrific things on the way that they use to gain power, by being so meek and oblivious to what is actually happening around you
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
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Do you still think Ron or others like him in the GQP if they get power will respect our institutions like democracy, equality, and protecting against discrimination? These are all core institutions and values we have.

So you can make a list of those three and say which you think they will honor if they get power