Derek, I can't believe you're allowing Nvidia to create anti-AMD posts here at AT

[Creig]

This has run it's course and then some. It was not smart for rollo to post without disclosure of his source, but it wasn't shilling. It was a valid topic for discussion. And AMD has already fixed it. Time to move on.

DerekWilson
Forum Administrator


Here is the link for anyone interested in reading through it:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2241129&enterthread=y


Derek, just what the heck are you allowing to go on here at AnandTech? Rollo created that thread specifically in an attempt to infer that AMD was deliberately cheating with their drivers to artificially increase framerates and did it using information provided to him by Nvidia themselves.

First, the attempt to make it appear this was deliberate:

Originally posted by: nRollo
It looks to me like the speed increases might be coming at the expense of accuracy.

He originally states:

Originally posted by: nRollo
I didn't mention the stuttering or show NVIDIA screen shots because I'm not trying to turn this into "Look! NVIDIA renders the game more accuratrely!"

But then immediately goes on to say:

Originally posted by: nRollo
ORLY?

If the 8.10hotfix driver method of rendering (missing rocks, transparent rocks) is correct, why do NVIDIA cards render it the same as ATi when the executable is re-named?

By "accident" NVIDIA's method of rendering is the same as ATi's with the executable renamed or the 8.9 drivers? Uh huh.

Wow, how about that. He did turn it into a ""Look! NVIDIA renders the game more accuratrely!" thread. Promoting Nvidia products while simultaneously downplaying AMD. Déjà vu.

BFG10K then shrewdly deduced the source of this newly discovered bug info and point blank asked Rollo:

Originally posted by: BFG10K
The question is, why now? Is nVidia running damage control because of DX10.1 in Far Cry 2? Or does it have something to do with preparing for the 55 nm GT200 launch?

Rollo did not answer, so BFG asked him a second time:

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Again I'll ask, where is this coming from? Have you been instructed by someone to post this?

At which point Rollo replied:

Originally posted by: nRollo
What does that matter? If my decision to investigate this comes from curiosity, a tip from George W Bush, or the ghost of Winston Churchill is irrelevant.

Ah yes, this must the be the new honest and reformed nRollo you were telling us would emerge from the ashes of the previously banned Rollo. When asked a question with a potentially embarrassing answer, sidestep it and instead throw up a smokescreen. Same old Rollo.

It wasn't until I posted that quote from Kyle Bennett at HardForum showing that Nvidia was one pushing out this information that he finally admits:

Originally posted by: nRollo
I'm not "hiding" anything- NVIDIA told me of this, I knew posting they said it would be questioned.

Which brings me to my second point.

Why are you allowing Nvidia/Rollo to start an anti-AMD smear campaign here at AnandTech? It was bad enough that you let Rollo back and further allowed Nvidia Focus Group members in here, but now you're giving the Nvidia PR department the green light to start bombarding us (through Rollo) with every little AMD bug or error they can come up with.

Rollo himself admitted that Nvidia fed him this information. But in his initial post, he tried to pass it off as coming from himself:

Originally posted by: nRollo
I was testing out Far Cry2 on a Radeon 4850, and found some there are definite differences in the new Cat 8.10s with the Far Cry 2 hotfix.

Nowhere in there did I see a mention of this information coming from Nvidia. He claimed he was testing the card and found the differences, not Nvidia was testing a 4850, found it and passed it along to him. His post over at Rage3D even more strongly asserts that he was the one who found it:

Originally posted by: JethroBodine at Rage3D
I've been playing with a HD4850 a bit and found a "Quack-esque" driver optomization issue with the Cat 10.1 FC2 Hot fix drivers.

When you re-name the executable, performance drops and the card renders more textures/scenery. I had to update from 8.9 due to missing textures.

Here's a link to the difference, pretty huge!

In that thread you can see he meant it to mean that AMD was deliberately inflating their FarCry2 framerates at the expense of rendering accuracy. And he definitely was claiming that he discovered this all by himself.

This is all just an anti-AMD smear campaign in an attempt to discredit AMD. Why? Because Far Cry 2 is a highly anticipated title that utilizes DX10.1 which no current Nvidia card is capable of. And you know that AMD is going to be using this title in advertising as a reason to purchase their cards. ATI has been gaining back a LOT of lost ground in sales with their 48X0 series and Nvidia is willing to do anything they can to stem this, including having Rollo create anti-AMD threads here at AT.


When you let Rollo back in (against my strongest possible objections), you stated the following:

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
The reason we are requiring Rollo to disclose a relationship with NVIDIA that has nothing to do with PR, shilling, or selling products is because of his past. The condition of his return is full disclosure on all the aspects of his relationship with NVIDIA regardless of the fact that those relationships do not inherently mean he will be biased.

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
He is not an NVIDIA representative. He's not paid or given hardware to operate in that capacity. What he does on these boards is on his own time and has nothing to do with NVIDIA.

And yet we find that he IS working for Nvidia PR and IS passing along anti-AMD information directly from them. He admitted it himself:

Originally posted by: nRollo
I'm not "hiding" anything- NVIDIA told me of this, I knew posting they said it would be questioned.

And yet, you seem perfectly happy to allow this behavior:

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
Unlocked.

Don't shoot the messenger.

I'll put this out there -- Rollo, you should know that there will be more than usual backlash even if you post true issues with ATI hardware. It might not be the best idea for you to do that.

But for the rest of you guys, the facts are a lot more important than where they come from. Consider the source when it comes to the implications and meaning of the facts (as these are at least partly perception issues), but when you have evidence of something it doesn't do to attack the messenger.

Context is key. This is a beta hotfix that has not been fully QA'd. NVIDIA also had to release an updated driver for FarCry 2 that doesn't include all the features built into the driver. Both NVIDIA and AMD want us to use beta drives for Far Cry 2. Talking about this issue is useful, but remember that it is just an issue with a beta driver at this point.

keep the discussion on the topic of the driver and the image quality / performance issues and not on who posted the topic. even if it might have been a better idea for someone else to bring this one up.

If I were you and found out that Nvidia was covertly using one of their Focus Group members to begin a viral campaign here at AnandTech after everything that happened the LAST time with AEG, I'd be pissed as hell and would be on the phone with my Nvidia contact telling him to keep their marketers the hell away!

And yes, this was the start of a viral campaign. Did Rollo tell us the information came from Nvidia? No! He tried to pass off the information as coming from himself, just an average computer user who "happened" to come across this error. Isn't that the definition of a viral marketer? Didn't you tell us that this couldn't happen with him again?

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
To fill you guys in, members of the NVIDIA Focus Group evaluate software, hardware, etc. and provide NVIDIA feedback for the purpose of making their products better. This is in no way a viral marketing group. In fact, NVIDIA now requires focus group members identify themselves on forums and they actively discourage members from trying to sell nvidia products or lie in order to promote nvidia. Shilling damages NVIDIA's image, and they in no way support or encourage it. This is not what Rollo is telling us, this is straight from NVIDIA. We would never knowingly allow any viral marketer to come here and post. We will not encourage shilling.

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
I also hope it is clear that Rollo's capacity has changed and that he is not a viral marketer. I hope you guys can see how damaging it would be to NVIDIA to promote such behavior and that their confirmation of the fact that Rollo's posts are his own and they don't care what he says goes to show that there is no inherent bias in his position.

And now here is proof that Nvidia IS promoting such behavior, his posts are NOT all his own and that they DO care what he says here.

Nvidia is just playing you, Derek. They requested that Rollo be let back in and now they're feeding him anti-AMD information for him to post here. If this situation doesn't convince you, nothing will.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Please BAN nRollo.

 

[Pulsar]

Creig - what's the point?

Slam Rollo for clearly lieing. He deserves it. But if you ban him and throw him out, you'll simply get another "focus group" member in here under a different name and you WON'T be able to weed out lies and the marketing BS quite so easily.

As long as people like you and BFG continue to hand out the ass-whoopings whenever he does something like this, then I'd much rather continue with the devil we know rather than the devil we don't.

 

[apoppin]

Fortunately there is Creig here to *balance* Rollo. He is as biased and as one-sided as Rollo is. By reading both of your posts, a savy reader can tell is really going on. i would hate to have either of you not posting here.

Nothing is hidden .. the thread is open, it is transparent and we know what is going on. Rollo always gives his opinion and he really thinks AMD is a 2nd-rate company - in contrast to Nvidia; just as you feel there is something fundamentally wrong with Nvidia.

FACT: AMD botched their beta hotfix and was embarrassed into fixing it again very quickly by the negative publicity they got. it is SO clear that the FC2 hotfix drivers are broken.
FACT: we do not know if AMD "cheated" or not. Personally i do not care about "motivation" but will point out ERRORS in anyone's drivers - without passing judgment

Who cares WHO pointed it out? Just you do.


if Nvidia - or satan the devil - sent these issues to ME directly, i would still post it and give credit where i got the info from
- that is probably what he will do next time .. and what he would have done .. with 20/20 hindsight

so you are complaining - from what i can see - that Rollo posted it .. if ANYONE but a FG member posted it, you would be OK with it?
- am i right?

Basically i believe - from reading Mr Wilson's comments - what Rollo did is "allowed" but unwise
- i agree

 

[Creig]

So now we're allowing PR departments to post every little thing they can find wrong with their competitors product here at AT? Is that what you would like us to turn into? This forum is supposed to be BY enthusiasts and FOR enthusiasts. Not for large corporation PR departments to subvert at their will.

If PR departments are openly allowed to discredit their competitiors here, what's next? Allowing them to promote their own products? Turn the Video forum into nothing but a big corporate sales venue? This is exactly what I was afraid would happen back when Rollo was initially allowed to return and I said as much. Where exactly is this line that can't be crossed?

I don't care if it's Nvidia, AMD, Intel or Bitboys 'oy. No company should be allowed to slip members in here to promote their own product or attempt to disparage their competitors products.

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
To fill you guys in, members of the NVIDIA Focus Group evaluate software, hardware, etc. and provide NVIDIA feedback for the purpose of making their products better. This is in no way a viral marketing group. In fact, NVIDIA now requires focus group members identify themselves on forums and they actively discourage members from trying to sell nvidia products or lie in order to promote nvidia. Shilling damages NVIDIA's image, and they in no way support or encourage it. This is not what Rollo is telling us, this is straight from NVIDIA. We would never knowingly allow any viral marketer to come here and post. We will not encourage shilling.

Did Nvidia come straight out and inform Anand or Derek of this Hotfix bug? No. They slipped the information to Rollo who then attempted to pass it off as his own "discovery". That's viral marketing, folks. Which, according to Derek, is something that isn't tolerated here.

 

[apoppin]

Agreed Creig .. it IS viral marketing .. but we know about it .. so it is transparent viral marketing
- how about the other companies that do the same thing with NO transparency ... like AXD and iXXel ?

they are perhaps a bit smarter and leave no trail

what you are now doing is perhaps getting Nvidia to hide their trail better

 

[OCGuy]

Wow. With all the anti-nV stuff that goes on here, you would complain about something like this?

I wouldnt be surprised if we had some ATi operatives that just arent outed.

Look how mad they get when a flaw is pointed out. Yikes!

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Agreed Creig .. it IS viral marketing .. but we know about it .. so it is transparent viral marketing
- how about the other companies that do the same thing with NO transparency ... like AXD and iXXel ?

they are perhaps a bit smarter and leave no trail

what you are now doing is perhaps getting Nvidia to hide their trail better

The only reason we know about it is because Kyle just happened to post the contents of that email he received from Nvidia. Up until I quoted that email, Rollo was still trying to pass the information off as his own.

Since Rollo seems determined to continue his viral marketing for Nvidia no matter how many second chances he's given, I say we let him do it from forums.nvidia.com and not here. And if I were Derek, I'd be having some pretty strong words with Nvidia for trying to get away with it.

 

[nRollo]

Apoppin-
I do NOT think ATi is a second rate company. I think they're a top shelf company, and if I usually bought video cards, I would never buy one without giving their products equal consideration and deciding if they or NVIDIA offered the price/performance/features I desired.

Creig-
You're making too a big a deal of this. I only posted NVIDIA screens when BFG requested them. I didn't post about the huge texture errors on the 8.9 or the stuttering on any driver at all. I could have flamed ATi for this- all I did was (accurately) point out their hotfix for the drivers had the cards apparently doing less work. I noted they were beta drivers and had a disclaimer, and that this would be fixed. I even noted that my performance testing only showed it a little faster.

As far as NVIDIA goes, if I read some guy post "ATi told me there are problems with NVIDIA drivers", I wouldn't take it very seriously. If the guy posted "I've tried this out, and there are problems with NVIDIA drivers" I'd forward it to NVIDIA. (and try it myself)

EDIT: I'll put it this way:
If ATi told you NVIDIA had a problem with their drivers, would you assume it was true, exclaim, "Those rascals!", and post "ATi says NVIDIA drivers borked!". Or would you want to see it for yourself, and give NVIDIA the benefit of the doubt?

I didn't want to go off half cocked, wanted to investigate it myself rather than post hearsay. Kind of cool having an ATi card again anyway, gave me a big rush o' nostalgia going to Best Buy and shopping for video cards- used to be a monthly ritual with me.

I get a lot of the "inside info" that people like Derek and Kyle get. Some I use, some I don't. This was interesting to me, so I posted it. I'm sure ATi will survive me posting their rushed beta drivers have an issue, and don't mind one of their customers noting they do. The 4850 seems to be a kick ass card, I'm sure ATi will be fine.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: apoppin
Agreed Creig .. it IS viral marketing .. but we know about it .. so it is transparent viral marketing
- how about the other companies that do the same thing with NO transparency ... like AXD and iXXel ?

they are perhaps a bit smarter and leave no trail

what you are now doing is perhaps getting Nvidia to hide their trail better

The only reason we know about it is because Kyle just happened to post the contents of that email he received from Nvidia. Up until I quoted that email, Rollo was still trying to pass the information off as his own.

Since Rollo seems determined to continue his viral marketing for Nvidia no matter how many second chances he's given, I say we let him do it from forums.nvidia.com and not here. And if I were Derek, I'd be having some pretty strong words with Nvidia for trying to get away with it.

You need to look up "viral" Creig.

I think people can pretty much figure out I have loose ties to NVIDIA by the bold line in my sig that says they give me free cards, that I'm in their group, and my name being "nRollo".

If NVIDIA wanted "viral" marketers, I would probably be the worst possible choice on the planet. I'm pretty well known to do anything covert.

 

[DerekWilson]

hi guys,

i get the sentiment here. and i understand why this is an issue. it's mostly a problem of rollo's history here and apoppin nailed it dead on. what rollo did was "allowed" but it was not smart. i disagree with his assessment of the fact that he couldn't say he was working off a tip from nvidia. in articles i can say something like nvidia told us about this and we verified it ... i understand that you don't want people to write off what you are saying, but if you give people a little more information, they'll be more likely to appreciate the post because they will feel like they understand the context better. and they will. nvidia clueing you and me and kyle and others in on this doesn't change the facts of the thing. this is why people have a problem with what you said -- not that you said something.

in my view, and the way i think others should look at it -- is that it's likely you've been informed by nvidia about most of what you post (whether you independently verify it or not) ... there's no need for you to tell me about where you got the info because i'm gonna make an assumption -- which could be wrong or right -- but it really doesn't matter to me as long as the facts are straight.

i know nvidia did not ask rollo to post this (nor did they ask him to research it and post it like he found something on his own).

i got an email about this last week from more than just nvidia -- but i did know about this very shortly after the amd driver was out there. i'm sorry i didn't get something up quickly about it, but it isn't something we make a big deal about because its a prerelease driver with no guarantees about quality. in an article we might mention it and say we hope they fix it, but before its a final driver it's all in flux. nvidia has had similar problems in the past as well, and we've definitely heard about it from amd.

the point is that you need to consider the source. and i don't me rollo. (but you should consider him when he's the source too)

a lot of major review sites get a lot of info about companies from their competitors. it's just how it is. and it makes some people who report on all that a pawn in larger battle that we try to avoid. we do what rollo did -- we independently test things -- but we also consider the real world value of the information. while there is no reason not to mention the issue, there is also no reason to stop the presses to get it out there. presenting it in proper context is something you can know AnandTech try its best to do. but even in that case you need to think for yourself and evaluate the information. but you should damn sure not give that same consideration to anyone associate with any company when talking about the competition.

that's not to say you should close your ears and not listen.

confront them on the merrits ... find the facts and evaluate their value. post and respond to get the other side of the story out (if there is one).

before this thread came up, i pm'd rollo to let him know i was unlocking the thread he started ... but that i also wanted him to remember that his history here has real effects on people's reaction to what he posts. posting something negative about ati hardware, whether factual or not, will be poorly received. he needs to be very careful about that.

and if i didn't make it clear, full disclosure about the source of your information would go a long way to helping avoid situations like this. don't worry about diminishing impact, as that's a narrow perspective. it will only diminish impact on those who already think you've got nothing of value to say or that truth doesn't matter if it comes from certain sources. people who are interested in actually talking about facts will be interested regardless of source, and you'll end up with better discussions of the technology that way.

i appreciate the feedback on this situation.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: apoppin
Agreed Creig .. it IS viral marketing .. but we know about it .. so it is transparent viral marketing
- how about the other companies that do the same thing with NO transparency ... like AXD and iXXel ?

they are perhaps a bit smarter and leave no trail

what you are now doing is perhaps getting Nvidia to hide their trail better

The only reason we know about it is because Kyle just happened to post the contents of that email he received from Nvidia. Up until I quoted that email, Rollo was still trying to pass the information off as his own.

Since Rollo seems determined to continue his viral marketing for Nvidia no matter how many second chances he's given, I say we let him do it from forums.nvidia.com and not here. And if I were Derek, I'd be having some pretty strong words with Nvidia for trying to get away with it.

You need to look up "viral" Creig.

I think people can pretty much figure out I have loose ties to NVIDIA by the bold line in my sig that says they give me free cards, that I'm in their group, and my name being "nRollo".

If NVIDIA wanted "viral" marketers, I would probably be the worst possible choice on the planet. I'm pretty well known to do anything covert.

Just because you are a sucky viral marketer doesn't mean you aren't a viral marketer. We've already pointed out that AMD probably has them they just don't get caught cause they aren't stupid.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: apoppin
Agreed Creig .. it IS viral marketing .. but we know about it .. so it is transparent viral marketing
- how about the other companies that do the same thing with NO transparency ... like AXD and iXXel ?

they are perhaps a bit smarter and leave no trail

what you are now doing is perhaps getting Nvidia to hide their trail better

The only reason we know about it is because Kyle just happened to post the contents of that email he received from Nvidia. Up until I quoted that email, Rollo was still trying to pass the information off as his own.

Since Rollo seems determined to continue his viral marketing for Nvidia no matter how many second chances he's given, I say we let him do it from forums.nvidia.com and not here. And if I were Derek, I'd be having some pretty strong words with Nvidia for trying to get away with it.

You need to look up "viral" Creig.

I think people can pretty much figure out I have loose ties to NVIDIA by the bold line in my sig that says they give me free cards, that I'm in their group, and my name being "nRollo".

If NVIDIA wanted "viral" marketers, I would probably be the worst possible choice on the planet. I'm pretty well known to do anything covert.

Just because you are a sucky viral marketer doesn't mean you aren't a viral marketer. We've already pointed out that AMD probably has them they just don't get caught cause they aren't stupid.

Heh-I'll leave the viral marketing to them if it's all the same to you. My affiliation with NVIDIA is prominently posted in my signature in any tech forum I'm a part of.

BTW- "cause" isn't a word in the context you were using it while implying I'm stupid.

 

[bsobel]

Heh-I'll leave the viral marketing to them if it's all the same to you. My affiliation with NVIDIA is prominently posted in my signature in any tech forum I'm a part of.

After we required it of you. I don't recall you volunteering to place that there.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Heh-I'll leave the viral marketing to them if it's all the same to you. My affiliation with NVIDIA is prominently posted in my signature in any tech forum I'm a part of.

After we required it of you. I don't recall you volunteering to place that there.

While it is true you require me to have the "Get's free video cards", all NVIDIA Focus Group members are required to display their membership in their signature on any tech forum.

We've had 100% disclosure for years.

When I returned here, I suggested to Derek that my avatar be changed to a NVIDIA logo, and my title to "NVIDIA Affiliate" when I learned there was concern having "NVIDIA Focus Group Member" and "NZONE/SLiZone/GeForce3d Moderator" in my sig wouldn't adequately alert people.

 

[apoppin]

While we are at it .. "I am given" .. is kinda awkward structure, isn't it?
-perhaps "i get gfx cards & MBs from Nvidia Corp" would fit better; the free is already implied

and i really don't think they are really "free"
- no one works harder for them .. anywhere

 

[BFG10K]

As a mod I have to back the decisions made by ATF management.

However as a member having a regular member opinion, I agree completely with Creig. The fact that nRollo's information happened to be right in this instance is irrelevant to the entire point of why he was let back in here.

We've been repeatedly told that the "new" AEG (err, focus group) is only here to provide insider information and assistance to people using nVidia products, and that they are not to engage in PR, marketing, or slagging off the competition.

Unfortunately as it stands now the only difference between the "new" nRollo and the "old" Rollo is his signature stating he gets free gifts from nVidia.

Again I completely agree with Creig: the fact that nRollo didn?t disclose his source and made it sound like he just happened to discover this himself (?I was playing Far Cry 2 on my 4850 and I noticed Quake-esque optimizations?) is the very definition of viral marketing. I?m still convinced nVidia told him to post this but he hasn?t admitted that yet. That would explain why he posted the same thing at Rage3D and probably other forums where he hasn?t been banned yet.

After so much has happened in the past and keeps happening, I honestly cannot understand why nRollo is still posting here.

 

[buck]

Is trollo worth all of the trouble he is causing? He has chased people out of video in the past and is continuing to do it again. Tis a shame he couldn't keep his word and leave these forums like he said he would. He deceived us in the past multiple times and the trend continues.
<---Nvidia fan.

 

[olds]

This question was asked and answered. Time to lock it up.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
This question was asked and answered. Time to lock it up.

I like your sig Oldsmoboat- it is a tough decision.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: nRollo
You need to look up "viral" Creig.

I think people can pretty much figure out I have loose ties to NVIDIA by the bold line in my sig that says they give me free cards, that I'm in their group, and my name being "nRollo".

If NVIDIA wanted "viral" marketers, I would probably be the worst possible choice on the planet. I'm pretty well known to do anything covert.

My apologies for getting my terminology mixed up. Perhaps "shill" is a better term.

Shill - A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer. Shilling is illegal in many circumstances and in many jurisdictions because of the frequently fraudulent and damaging character of their actions.

You were "shilling" for Nvidia by attempting to make AMD look like a bad choice for Far Cry 2 because of graphical errors and deliberately making it appear that you, just an enthusiastic customer, had discovered it. Do you like that label better?

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
hi guys,

i get the sentiment here. and i understand why this is an issue. it's mostly a problem of rollo's history here and apoppin nailed it dead on. what rollo did was "allowed" but it was not smart.

No Derek, what he did was viral marketing (or shilling) which you specifically forbade here.

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
We would never knowingly allow any viral marketer to come here and post.

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
if we find anyone shilling they will be banned.

Nvidia provided him information regarding AMD's Hotfix driver and Rollo surreptitiously used that information to make it appear he discovered an AMD Hotfix error all on his own in an attempt to make AMD look like a worse choice for Far Cry 2 compared to Nvidia. He did not come straight out and say his information came from Nvidia but instead tried to pass it off as something he discovered by accident. That's shilling/viral marketing.

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
in my view, and the way i think others should look at it -- is that it's likely you've been informed by nvidia about most of what you post (whether you independently verify it or not) ... there's no need for you to tell me about where you got the info because i'm gonna make an assumption -- which could be wrong or right -- but it really doesn't matter to me as long as the facts are straight.

Whoa! Hold it right there, Derek! Back when you let Rollo back in, you said the following:

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
To fill you guys in, members of the NVIDIA Focus Group evaluate software, hardware, etc. and provide NVIDIA feedback for the purpose of making their products better. This is in no way a viral marketing group.

Please tell me how posting a graphical error discovered by Nvidia regarding an AMD product is helping Nvidia make their products better.

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
The reason we are requiring Rollo to disclose a relationship with NVIDIA that has nothing to do with PR, shilling, or selling products is because of his past.

Please tell me how the posting of this AMD graphical error ISN'T solely Nvidia PR related.

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
i know nvidia did not ask rollo to post this (nor did they ask him to research it and post it like he found something on his own).

Please explain to me why Nvidia would inform a Focus Group member of an AMD video card graphical error if they didn't want him to spread the word about it.



You are giving Rollo and Nvidia WAY too much latitude in these forums, Derek. You already stated that viral marketing or shilling would not be tolerated, yet here is proof that Nvidia/Rollo are engaging in just such practices.

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
What he does on these boards is on his own time and has nothing to do with NVIDIA.

I think you can see now just how wrong you were to make this statement. Nvidia themselves provided Rollo with the information regarding AMD's driver. Rollo even admitted it.

He posted the information in an attempt to damage AMD's reputation and inflate Nvidia's regarding Far Cry 2 performance and he did in such a way as to make it appear that he, just an ordinary forum member, had discovered it and not Nvidia. ie - shilling. The only question that remains now is whether you intend to live up to your word and ban him for shilling/viral marketing.

 

[apoppin]

Creig .. you are calling Derek Wilson out

:Q

you have a particular vendetta against a member who did make an error of judgment and was censured for it. Your entire argument boils down to this [and it has some validity]:

Nvidia provided him information regarding AMD's Hotfix driver and Rollo surreptitiously used that information to make it appear he discovered an AMD Hotfix error all on his own in an attempt to make AMD look like a worse choice for Far Cry 2 compared to Nvidia. He did not come straight out and say his information came from Nvidia but instead tried to pass it off as something he discovered by accident. That's shilling/viral marketing.

i "knew" this; who else goes out and *coincidentally* buys a 4850 and SUDDENLY "discovers" a graphical glitch instantly?
- it is a sin of "omission" .. OBVIOUSLY the tip came from Nvidia

i clearly knew it was "from Nvidia" when i posted it as news on my own site .. but then again it IS news .. and i personally do not care "where" it came from - that is for OT/video forums to debate

i guess if Rollo had done it exactly right, he would have disclosed he got it from Nvidia in the first post. Or if he was truly "viral" he would have had another Nvidia fan post it for him - via proxy.

 

[Creig]

Well, the rules say you can't call out a Moderator. There's nothing in there about calling out Editors. And he DID say that shilling/viral marketing would not be tolerated and that anyone performing such actions would be banned. If my reply to Derek comes off as strong, it's only because of frustration.

My point is that Nvidia PR is now feeding Rollo dirt on AMD products and he is posting them here all the while trying to pass them off as his own. That's shilling/viral marketing/whatever-you-want-to-call-it.

And no, I don't read every single one of Rollo's posts. This one did catch my eye because it was regarding a 4850 and I instantly thought to myself "What in the world is Rollo doing with a 4850?". Once I read the thread, I knew what his agenda was.

Rollo should never have been allowed back here in the first place. And now it appears that Derek is willing to allow Rollo to post Nvidia PR material regarding AMD products. This is just so out-of-bounds that I am completely unable to fathom how he justifies it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Creig
Well, the rules say you can't call out a Moderator. There's nothing in there about calling out Editors. And he DID say that shilling/viral marketing would not be tolerated and that anyone performing such actions would be banned. If my reply to Derek comes off as strong, it's only because of frustration.

My point is that Nvidia PR is now feeding Rollo dirt on AMD products and he is posting them here all the while trying to pass them off as his own. That's shilling/viral marketing/whatever-you-want-to-call-it.

And no, I don't read every single one of Rollo's posts. This one did catch my eye because it was regarding a 4850 and I instantly thought to myself "What in the world is Rollo doing with a 4850?". Once I read the thread, I knew what his agenda was.

Rollo should never have been allowed back here in the first place. And now it appears that Derek is willing to allow Rollo to post Nvidia PR material regarding AMD products. This is just so out-of-bounds that I am completely unable to fathom how he justifies it.

Well the mods defer to Derek for the toughest decisions .. so he would be Uber-mod

Nvidia Marketing and AMD marketing "feed" a lot of people info .. some of it is just "fluff" and some of it turns out to be important
- clearly FG members and many tech sites as well as "key" members of forums get it.

MOST of it gets ignored rightly .. but sometimes, something stands out - like a "fix" for a triple A title that is broken. it interested me - even though i like AMD, run it in my own PC - because i am PLAYING FarCry2. So i investigated it.

Yes, i am quite certain Nvidia would have preferred that Rollo handled this differently - i think he just goofed by OMITTING it came from Nvidia
- i understand the 'why' he left it out; but imo he didn't think it though.

A really "viral" source would have used SOMEONE ELSE to post it. i can name at least 3 or 4 posters who would do it - for the reasons you said - to embarrass AMD

So Rollo was sloppy and he omitted a fact .. bad judgment .. yes

but banable? .. no

We know him and we know his fascination with Nvidia and his critical nature toward AMD .. that is transparent ... what we asked for
- and you are here to counterbalance him .. with many others. i would just hate to have only a "counterbalance" with nothing to counter.

 

[Creig]

He shilled in that Hotfix thread and got caught at it. We'll just have to see what the official AT stance regarding shilling is. To me, hiding the source of your information while disparaging a company's products is just as bad as hiding the source of your information while promoting a company's products.

We all knew Rollo is a member of the Focus Group. But that he's now also found to be working for Nvidia PR? That's a whole new situation and was not a part of Rollo's "Get out of jail free" card when he was allowed to return here.