Departments of Justice and Treasury Release Marijuana Banking Guidance

[TechBoyJK]

http://blog.norml.org/2014/02/14/de...-treasury-release-marijuana-banking-guidance/

Totally makes sense. If they're going to allow states to manage their own marijuana system, it only seems logical to allow these businesses to use the banking system. Otherwise, it creates an all cash business that will be ripe for robberies, etc. The entire point of regulating the commerce of marijuana is to get away from these unnecessary situations.

 

[Thebobo]

You know the cottage industry we have now will change to mega corporations which will ruin in all!

 

[TechBoyJK]

You know the cottage industry we have now will change to mega corporations which will ruin in all!

Nah. the entire culture is a kind of 'underground, home grown' community and it will lend itself to users supporting local operations vs some corporate prepackaged bs.

 

[smackababy]

You know the cottage industry we have now will change to mega corporations which will ruin in all!

There will be the megacorps that are fine for the average consumer (think Starbucks) and all the hipsters will always be on about some obscure friend of a cousin who you will never hear of again that has the best. And those that care about the quality will continue as they do now.

The real winner will be the FritoLay company.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Nah. the entire culture is a kind of 'underground, home grown' community and it will lend itself to users supporting local operations vs some corporate prepackaged bs.

Lol ok. Price and marketing will dictate all, both of which large corps will have an advantage in.

I think there will always be room for grow local, but I see Big Weed as a possibility.

I welcome it big or small btw.

 

[BoberFett]

Nah. the entire culture is a kind of 'underground, home grown' community and it will lend itself to users supporting local operations vs some corporate prepackaged bs.

You realize that legality will remove your "culture" and replace it with capitalism, right?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I think there will always be room for grow local, but I see Big Weed as a possibility.

Big Weed would have the resources to lobby to have it legalized everywhere.

 

[LunarRay]

I'm baffled!

How can Marijuana be a schedule 1 drug and permission given to the relevant banks to use the Federal Reserve System. How can the Supremacy Clause be waived and the US Code be ignored?
The users, the sellers and the banks involved are all violating federal law... It is clearly indicated in the US Code!

It would seem to me that Holder is involved in a Conspiracy.

I'd vote in favor of impeachment unless and until he or someone removes marijuana from schedule 1 to a more rational and legal status.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm baffled!

How can Marijuana be a schedule 1 drug and permission given to the relevant banks to use the Federal Reserve System. How can the Supremacy Clause be waived and the US Code be ignored?
The users, the sellers and the banks involved are all violating federal law... It is clearly indicated in the US Code!

It would seem to me that Holder is involved in a Conspiracy.

I'd vote in favor of impeachment unless and until he or someone removes marijuana from schedule 1 to a more rational and legal status.

In other cases I've ignored cries for impeachment as baseless but this is ridiculous. Aiding another in an illegal activity is conspiracy, and no mistake that Obama says it's illegal. The rationale? The DOJ will be to busy to prosecute. Well if the banks take the money they've committed a felony and any time within the statute of limitations the DOJ gets "unbusy", they can be prosecuted and frankly so should those who participated in the crime.

This is insane.

 

[LunarRay]

In other cases I've ignored cries for impeachment as baseless but this is ridiculous. Aiding another in an illegal activity is conspiracy, and no mistake that Obama says it's illegal. The rationale? The DOJ will be to busy to prosecute. Well if the banks take the money they've committed a felony and any time within the statute of limitations the DOJ gets "unbusy", they can be prosecuted and frankly so should those who participated in the crime.

This is insane.

I'll go out on a limb and further say that any case brought to Federal Court in any State with legalized MJ laws should result in an over turning of that legalizing law.

Now, don't get me wrong... I think MJ should be legal but it should be so by removing MJ from the Schedule 1 status. I can see that it would make it permissible in the States not wishing for that condition but that is up to the State Voter... It would seem... It can be done in a way that does not position MJ as a Right... I think a Rational basis to out law it is present as well a Compelling State Need.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

i dont care if its legal or not, but its funnie how the gov went from putting people in jail to legitimization and legalization once it realized how much it could make

 

[Fern]

In other cases I've ignored cries for impeachment as baseless but this is ridiculous. Aiding another in an illegal activity is conspiracy, and no mistake that Obama says it's illegal. The rationale? The DOJ will be to busy to prosecute. Well if the banks take the money they've committed a felony and any time within the statute of limitations the DOJ gets "unbusy", they can be prosecuted and frankly so should those who participated in the crime.

This is insane.

Yeah.

This seems too risky for banks. We need legislation passed etc.

Fern

 

[Jhhnn]

In other cases I've ignored cries for impeachment as baseless but this is ridiculous. Aiding another in an illegal activity is conspiracy, and no mistake that Obama says it's illegal. The rationale? The DOJ will be to busy to prosecute. Well if the banks take the money they've committed a felony and any time within the statute of limitations the DOJ gets "unbusy", they can be prosecuted and frankly so should those who participated in the crime.

This is insane.

I'll go out on a limb and further say that any case brought to Federal Court in any State with legalized MJ laws should result in an over turning of that legalizing law.

Now, don't get me wrong... I think MJ should be legal but it should be so by removing MJ from the Schedule 1 status. I can see that it would make it permissible in the States not wishing for that condition but that is up to the State Voter... It would seem... It can be done in a way that does not position MJ as a Right... I think a Rational basis to out law it is present as well a Compelling State Need.

Concern trolling. How quaint. Obviously, pot should be legalized, right? But only by methods that won't actually accomplish the task, of course, like changing federal law first. Which won't happen, so prohibition remains in force. Catch 22.

States can't enforce federal MJ law, which is why they have their own. OTOH, prohibition depends on a seamless front, full cooperation by state & federal authorities, something that no longer exists, particularly in Colorado. The part of it that really seals the deal is that legalization is part of the State Constitution & that personal growing is part of it. That can't be changed other than by a vote of the people. The feds could close down every retail operation in Colorado & all they'd accomplish would be the creation of enormous resentment while driving it back underground, depriving the state of tax revenue. Personal growers would become a lot less personal while state authorities become a lot less concerned about it, given the fucking they received from the feds & the fact that the citizenry has stripped them of enforcement powers.

Prohibitionists are having a little trouble catching on to the fact that Colorado's A64 is the marijuana war equivalent of the battle of Stalingrad. That reflects a paradigm shift in public perception that's been building for almost 50 years. Fighting will continue, but the outcome really is not in doubt. Legalization is sound policy, unlike what we've had for 75 years, and we intend to prove that here in Colorado. So far, so good, and it'll likely only improve from here. All we ever needed was the opportunity to prove it, which we now have, courtesy of Obama & Holder.

Libertopian twits might want to take that into account the next time they start raving about King Obama, Dear Leader or any of their usual hyperbole.

Probably not.

 

[Jhhnn]

i dont care if its legal or not, but its funnie how the gov went from putting people in jail to legitimization and legalization once it realized how much it could make

That's not it at all. Activists & voters in CO & WA forced the issue, freely offered tax revenue in return for legalization- insisted upon it, actually. These changes originate from the people, not the power structure. Govt has eschewed that arrangement for decades & still would if not for forces beyond their control.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Concern trolling. How quaint. Obviously, pot should be legalized, right? But only by methods that won't actually accomplish the task, of course, like changing federal law first. Which won't happen, so prohibition remains in force. Catch 22.

States can't enforce federal MJ law, which is why they have their own. OTOH, prohibition depends on a seamless front, full cooperation by state & federal authorities, something that no longer exists, particularly in Colorado. The part of it that really seals the deal is that legalization is part of the State Constitution & that personal growing is part of it. That can't be changed other than by a vote of the people. The feds could close down every retail operation in Colorado & all they'd accomplish would be the creation of enormous resentment while driving it back underground, depriving the state of tax revenue. Personal growers would become a lot less personal while state authorities become a lot less concerned about it, given the fucking they received from the feds & the fact that the citizenry has stripped them of enforcement powers.

Prohibitionists are having a little trouble catching on to the fact that Colorado's A64 is the marijuana war equivalent of the battle of Stalingrad. That reflects a paradigm shift in public perception that's been building for almost 50 years. Fighting will continue, but the outcome really is not in doubt. Legalization is sound policy, unlike what we've had for 75 years, and we intend to prove that here in Colorado. So far, so good, and it'll likely only improve from here. All we ever needed was the opportunity to prove it, which we now have, courtesy of Obama & Holder.

Libertopian twits might want to take that into account the next time they start raving about King Obama, Dear Leader or any of their usual hyperbole.

Probably not.

And the apologist appears, defending outright illegal conspiracy, once again showing no shame.

 

[LunarRay]

Concern trolling. How quaint. Obviously, pot should be legalized, right? But only by methods that won't actually accomplish the task, of course, like changing federal law first. Which won't happen, so prohibition remains in force. Catch 22.

States can't enforce federal MJ law, which is why they have their own. OTOH, prohibition depends on a seamless front, full cooperation by state & federal authorities, something that no longer exists, particularly in Colorado. The part of it that really seals the deal is that legalization is part of the State Constitution & that personal growing is part of it. That can't be changed other than by a vote of the people. The feds could close down every retail operation in Colorado & all they'd accomplish would be the creation of enormous resentment while driving it back underground, depriving the state of tax revenue. Personal growers would become a lot less personal while state authorities become a lot less concerned about it, given the fucking they received from the feds & the fact that the citizenry has stripped them of enforcement powers.

Prohibitionists are having a little trouble catching on to the fact that Colorado's A64 is the marijuana war equivalent of the battle of Stalingrad. That reflects a paradigm shift in public perception that's been building for almost 50 years. Fighting will continue, but the outcome really is not in doubt. Legalization is sound policy, unlike what we've had for 75 years, and we intend to prove that here in Colorado. So far, so good, and it'll likely only improve from here. All we ever needed was the opportunity to prove it, which we now have, courtesy of Obama & Holder.

Libertopian twits might want to take that into account the next time they start raving about King Obama, Dear Leader or any of their usual hyperbole.

Probably not.

I think that is the point. Unless and until MJ has been removed or at least reduced on the CSS it is an illegal drug nationally. You call it a catch 22 affair because I advocate using the only method to make it legal which you say won't occur. I say it must occur! IF enough States legalize MJ use then the case to remove it is easily doable.

My point is that MJ activity IS illegal and to allow banks to process MJ proceeds has always been prosecuted and the money ceased. To back off from that brings an argument of Selective Prosecution and prejudice toward other schemes not to mention the overt statement made by Justice to facilitate an illegal act seems illegal as well, in my opinion.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

My point is that MJ activity IS illegal and to allow banks to process MJ proceeds has always been prosecuted and the money ceased. To back off from that brings an argument of Selective Prosecution and prejudice toward other schemes not to mention the overt statement made by Justice to facilitate an illegal act seems illegal as well, in my opinion.

I'd love to see MJ laws, but besides what you point out the banks ARE breaking the law. That Obama doesn't see fit to prosecute does not remove legal liability whatsoever. "I" won't prosecute does not mean that prosecution cannot occur at some later time. There in no immunity.

 

[Jhhnn]

And the apologist appears, defending outright illegal conspiracy, once again showing no shame.

You do seem to hate it when you're busted.

Conspiracy? Really? Is it connected to the Birther- voter fraud- fast & furious- IRS- OMG Benghazi conspiracy? Did I forget anything?

Conspiracy by whom & to do what? Something they haven't told us? Like what, exactly? Lay it out.

When the people of WA & CO broke ranks in the marijuana war, there was nothing that drug warriors could do about it, particularly in CO where growing one's own is legal. Tens of thousands of people obviously are.

It seems fairly obvious that the DEA doesn't have a prayer of meaningful enforcement w/o local help. The Colorado constitution strips them of that aid in a way that can't be legislated or adjudicated away.

We fucked 'em. Gently but firmly, leaving the power structure with something of value as compensation- tax revenue & regulatory power. Now State govt is at odds with the feds, if the feds turn stupid.

Any half assed savvy politician/ administrator figured that out some while back. Obama had little choice. Unless, of course, you'd care to lay out an alternate federal response to citizens' initiatives in WA & CO.

 

[LunarRay]

I'd love to see MJ laws, but besides what you point out the banks ARE breaking the law. That Obama doesn't see fit to prosecute does not remove legal liability whatsoever. "I" won't prosecute does not mean that prosecution cannot occur at some later time. There in no immunity.

Especially if the GOP capture the White House.... I can just imagine the first order of business at Justice...

 

[Jhhnn]

I think that is the point. Unless and until MJ has been removed or at least reduced on the CSS it is an illegal drug nationally. You call it a catch 22 affair because I advocate using the only method to make it legal which you say won't occur. I say it must occur! IF enough States legalize MJ use then the case to remove it is easily doable.

My point is that MJ activity IS illegal and to allow banks to process MJ proceeds has always been prosecuted and the money ceased. To back off from that brings an argument of Selective Prosecution and prejudice toward other schemes not to mention the overt statement made by Justice to facilitate an illegal act seems illegal as well, in my opinion.

What other schemes, ones that are state sanctioned via citizens' initiatives?

It's an experiment forced by the people of WA & CO, one that the Obama Admin has basically been forced to allow. Which is what they're doing in a good faith sort of way, at least so far. Banking is part of that.

There won't be any going back the way I see it, so all of the obfuscation about the yewstabees won't matter. Even in the extremely unlikely event that such occurs, banks will merely be instructed to cease & desist.

It's remarkable that people would insist that change only occur though channels that are deliberately blocked. OTOH, one has to acknowledge that prohibition of cannabis has been achieved & maintained through lies, deception, subterfuge & violence for over 75 years. If the subterfuge of State citizen initiatives is necessary to overcome that, so be it. Drug warriors have never played by much in the way of rules, anyway, so it seems unbecoming that they now insist everybody else do so in a very precise manner.

In all likelihood, successful legalization in WA & CO will prove fatal to prohibition everywhere, not just in this country but in the world. We'll have shown it to be good policy long before Obama exits the White House, leading to a cascade of State legalizations. Federal law will lag
behind until the new reality is more firmly established.

In that, we will resolve one of the most incredibly stupid & bitter aspects of the culture war, probably the most divisive domestic issue of my lifetime. If it has to be done in a way that brings out a lot of hurf-burf whining about cheaters, it's only because it's the only way we could find from there to here, and beyond.

 

[LunarRay]

You do seem to hate it when you're busted.

Conspiracy? Really? Is it connected to the Birther- voter fraud- fast & furious- IRS- OMG Benghazi conspiracy? Did I forget anything?

Conspiracy by whom & to do what? Something they haven't told us? Like what, exactly? Lay it out.

When the people of WA & CO broke ranks in the marijuana war, there was nothing that drug warriors could do about it, particularly in CO where growing one's own is legal. Tens of thousands of people obviously are.

It seems fairly obvious that the DEA doesn't have a prayer of meaningful enforcement w/o local help. The Colorado constitution strips them of that aid in a way that can't be legislated or adjudicated away.

We fucked 'em. Gently but firmly, leaving the power structure with something of value as compensation- tax revenue & regulatory power. Now State govt is at odds with the feds, if the feds turn stupid.

Any half assed savvy politician/ administrator figured that out some while back. Obama had little choice. Unless, of course, you'd care to lay out an alternate federal response to citizens' initiatives in WA & CO.

Not to argue the point to death especially when I support the use of MJ and voted such in California.... BUT...
The Federal Government can use other means to get States to comply. They can withhold federal dollars otherwise returnable to the States. They can selectively prosecute violators and they can undermine the banking system in States by not permitting them membership in the Federal Reserve System and probably a few other things...

I simply want the situation to be fully legal nationally if the States wish it to be so in their State.


[edit] I don't mean cause the local police to arrest.... they have no law under which to do that... but, they can force zoning compliance orders which render the issue problematic. Stuff like that.

 

[Jhhnn]

Especially if the GOP capture the White House.... I can just imagine the first order of business at Justice...

It'll be too late by then. Seriously. We'll have proven legalization to be sound social policy & a tax revenue generator long before they have the chance to act stupid from a position of authority. Opposition would be ferocious, and damaging.

Besides that, Repubs won't be doing anything to harm bankers, anyway.

 

[LunarRay]

What other schemes, ones that are state sanctioned via citizens' initiatives?

It's an experiment forced by the people of WA & CO, one that the Obama Admin has basically been forced to allow. Which is what they're doing in a good faith sort of way, at least so far. Banking is part of that.

There won't be any going back the way I see it, so all of the obfuscation about the yewstabees won't matter. Even in the extremely unlikely event that such occurs, banks will merely be instructed to cease & desist.

It's remarkable that people would insist that change only occur though channels that are deliberately blocked. OTOH, one has to acknowledge that prohibition of cannabis has been achieved & maintained through lies, deception, subterfuge & violence for over 75 years. If the subterfuge of State citizen initiatives is necessary to overcome that, so be it. Drug warriors have never played by much in the way of rules, anyway, so it seems unbecoming that they now insist everybody else do so in a very precise manner.

In all likelihood, successful legalization in WA & CO will prove fatal to prohibition everywhere, not just in this country but in the world. We'll have shown it to be good policy long before Obama exits the White House, leading to a cascade of State legalizations. Federal law will lag
behind until the new reality is more firmly established.

In that, we will resolve one of the most incredibly stupid & bitter aspects of the culture war, probably the most divisive domestic issue of my lifetime. If it has to be done in a way that brings out a lot of hurf-burf whining about cheaters, it's only because it's the only way we could find from there to here, and beyond.

Yes, the folks in WA and CO have embarked on a crusade to thwart the insane prohibition of MJ. I agree. So did California in '94 for Medical use of MJ but it is still up to the local jurisdictions to zone in the retail outlet. Of course, folks can grow a certain amount themselves for personal use but even that does not provide for the vast consumer need. There is not one retail outlet in my small city nor any adjoining cities. I think the nearest is down in San Diego and they are being closed down daily due to trumped up zoning conflicts... The Conservative folks here simply want there to be NO MJ consumption as they consume their booze.... It is insanity of the highest order...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You do seem to hate it when you're busted.

Conspiracy? Really? Is it connected to the Birther- voter fraud- fast & furious- IRS- OMG Benghazi conspiracy? Did I forget anything?

Yes, you forgot to not speak.

Obama has said that what is happening is against the law in CO. It is also illegal for a bank to knowingly take money from illegally derived sources, and we're reminded by the administration says that it's an illegal activity which he chooses not to prosecute. He makes no claim that this is legal activity. Has that registered yet? No, I'll wager not.
So we have this little thing known as conspiracy. Since you don't know that there are different kinds of conspiracy I'll post a definition.

A criminal conspiracy exists when two or more people agree to commit almost any unlawful act, then take some action toward its completion. The action taken need not itself be a crime, but it must indicate that those involved in the conspiracy knew of the plan and intended to break the law. One person may be charged with and convicted of both conspiracy and the underlying crime based on the same circumstances. - See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/conspiracy.html#sthash.ZtTgVX7o.dpuf

Note that selling MJ is a violation of federal law. Note that accepting money knowingly from illegal sources is a violation of law. Note that aiding an illegal activity is known as conspiracy. That Obama is above the law doesn't matter. That he gives his permission does not change the law. He promises to give guidelines thereby aiding the commission of a crime. That is conspiracy in the way I meant.

Here's your hat, you'll find your ass in it.

 

[Jhhnn]

Not to argue the point to death especially when I support the use of MJ and voted such in California.... BUT...
The Federal Government can use other means to get States to comply. They can withhold federal dollars otherwise returnable to the States. They can selectively prosecute violators and they can undermine the banking system in States by not permitting them membership in the Federal Reserve System and probably a few other things...

I simply want the situation to be fully legal nationally if the States wish it to be so in their State.


[edit] I don't mean cause the local police to arrest.... they have no law under which to do that... but, they can force zoning compliance orders which render the issue problematic. Stuff like that.

They can't change the State Constitution, nor can the legislature, either. That requires a vote of the people of Colorado.

It's not like any of that bullshit could even begin before 2017, anyway. It's not like Congress will be going anywhere near any of this, either. Righties are betrayed by their own States' Rights rhetoric & libertarian minority, and so called "Leftists" have to consider their progressive constituencies. They sense a shift, a sea change going on, something they don't quite understand. It'll be over before they figure it out, the myth of the necessity of the war on marijuana pushed aside by the reality of legalization. They'll follow, try to say they were leading the whole way.

This really is a healing opportunity, a chance to come together, to give each other the respect we all deserve. The value of legalization towards better community relations for law enforcement is incalculable & enormous. Tax revenues will be significant. Unloading the legal system has its own merits, and drug warriors can turn their efforts towards drugs that actually destroy lives & kill people. An estimated half of Mexican cartels' income will now go to honest businessmen.

If we have to go a roundabout way to get there, at least we're getting there.