Department of Veterans Affairs bans the use of God or Jesus during funeral prayers

[OutHouse]

holy fuck! as a vet this has me pissed off. this lady needs to be fired ASAP! what right does she have to ban the words in a funeral prayer or edit them? what right does she have to stomp on the first amendment rights of anybody especially the vet who is being laid to rest who was willing to die for those rights??? fuck her

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/2...ban-on-god-and-jesus/?test=latestnews#content

Veterans in Houston say the Department of Veterans Affairs is consistently censoring their prayers by banning them from saying the words "God" and "Jesus" during funeral services at Houston National Cemetery.

Three organizations -- the Veterans of Foreign Wars, The American Legion and the National Memorial Ladies -- allege that the cemetery's director and other government officials have created "religious hostility" at the cemetery and are violating the First Amendment. According to court documents filed this week in federal court, the cemetery's director, Arleen Ocasio, has banned saying "God" at funerals and requires prayers be submitted in advance for government approval, MyFoxHouston.com reports.

According to court documents, Ocasio banned veterans organizations and volunteer groups from using certain religious words such as "God" or "Jesus," censored the content of prayer and forbade the use of religious messages in burial rituals unless the deceased's family submitted the text for prior approval.

The documents allege that VA prohibited volunteer honor guards from providing optional recitations to families for consideration, and that when burial teams conduct military honors for a veteran's funeral, a government official monitors what is said.
Chapel a 'meeting facility'

Court documents also describe the closure of the cemetery's chapel after Ocasio's appointment as director two years ago.

"The doors remain locked during Houston National Cemetery operating hours, the cross and the Bible have been removed, and the Chapel bells, which tolled at least twice a day, are now inoperative," the complaint reads. "Director Ocasio only unlocks the chapel doors when meetings or training sessions are held at the building. Furthermore, it is no longer called a 'chapel' but a 'meeting facility.' "

Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7630537.html#ixzz1QidJTAQL


Arleen Ocasio

 

[Genx87]

/facepalm

 

[rudder]

We can't have someone even remotely be the slightest bit offended when we are laying a soldier to rest. Forget about the feelings of the family of the one being laid to rest... God forbid anyone gets upset hearing the word Jesus at a funeral.

 

[dfuze]

We can't have someone even remotely be the slightest bit offended when we are laying a soldier to rest. Forget about the feelings of the family of the one being laid to rest... God forbid anyone gets upset hearing the word Jesus at a funeral.

Just want to be sure no one reading it is offended.

 

[gevorg]

Not only you send them to die in worthless wars, but you shit on their funeral too. Damn.

 

[Bateluer]

Tell them to F-off, give homage to any deities you wish during your loved one's funeral.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Do you think they allow Wesboro Baptist Church to attend and give speeches?

These are volunteers working for the VA. The VA is within its rights to demand they hold themselves to some semblance of decorum.
These are not public events and they need not be granted an invitation.

 

[Throckmorton]

I call shenanigans on this story

 

[OutHouse]

Do you think they allow Wesboro Baptist Church to attend and give speeches?

These are volunteers working for the VA. The VA is within its rights to demand they hold themselves to some semblance of decorum.
These are not public events and they need not be granted an invitation.

are you actually defending the VA's policy?

 

[werepossum]

are you actually defending the VA's policy?

G-d is bad, anime ponies are good, m'kay?

In Arleen's defense, the volunteers are still allowed to say "Obama bless you" and "Obama's grace be on you."

 

[HumblePie]

This one I have to side with WTF? I'm not religious at all, but a funeral is not a government function even if it is held on government grounds. It is a private event held for friends and family. Censoring speech during a private event is completely nuts.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

This one I have to side with WTF? I'm not religious at all, but a funeral is not a government function even if it is held on government grounds. It is a private event held for friends and family. Censoring speech during a private event is completely nuts.

50 years ago 90% of what "The Government" does today would be 'completely nuts'.



:'(

 

[Schadenfroh]

Alternative link? I have a hard time believing this...

 

[Texashiker]

The director must have moved from California to Houston

 

[Howard]

By what right can she do this? What is the punishment for disregarding her directive?

 

[Texashiker]

By what right can she do this?

She works for the gubberment, that is all the right she needs.

What is the punishment for disregarding her directive?

FBI goes to your house, kicks your door in at 3am, and kills everyone inside.

Or, they have a Ruby Ridge style stand off looking to shoot anyone that sticks their head out - armed or unarmed, the batf/fbi dont care.

 

[dali71]

Alternative link? I have a hard time believing this...

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/27/judge-blocks-va-from-barring-jesus-christ-from-memorial-day-prayer/?iref=allsearch

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7630537.html

 

[BeauJangles]

I thought the Constitution was written to prevent the establishment of an official religion or the persecution of a specific religion. How does a prayer at a funeral fall under either of those auspices?

 

[spittledip]

This country is going from one extreme to the other pretty quickly. I can't wait to see what happens next. I wonder when this type of stuff will start to be applied to churches.

 

[mchammer187]

This is beyond fucked up and she should she should be fired if this is true.

 

[DominionSeraph]

G-d is bad, anime ponies are good, m'kay?

Why is God bad? He's a rather large supporting character in a major work of fiction. Personally, I'm more of a fan of Q:

...but the character of God is a pretty good characterization of an unbalanced personality.

And yes, My Little Pony is good, but I fail to see the link. My Little Pony is not sci-fi, so why are you contrasting animated anthropomorphized ponies to a literary alien?

This one I have to side with WTF? I'm not religious at all, but a funeral is not a government function even if it is held on government grounds. It is a private event held for friends and family. Censoring speech during a private event is completely nuts.

VA burial benefits are government-supplied, just as is the DoD-supplied honor guard.
If the honor guard started throwing racial epithets, the government would probably take issue with its supplied function being hijacked. Same goes for what the VA supplies.
Nowhere is it saying these are guests of the family, so until shown otherwise, I have to go with the assessment that they are there at the behest of the VA. The VA has associations with these groups, and they will perform services when asked, so the VA does ask of them on occasion. But if they are there at the request of the VA then the VA is responsible for any offense they give.
Religion is divisive, so it is only natural that the VA would ask that these groups leave out mention of such things.

 

[OutHouse]

Why is God bad? He's a rather large supporting character in a major work of fiction. Personally, I'm more of a fan of Q:

...but the character of God is a pretty good characterization of an unbalanced personality.

And yes, My Little Pony is good, but I fail to see the link. My Little Pony is not sci-fi, so why are you contrasting animated anthropomorphized ponies to a literary alien?



VA burial benefits are government-supplied, just as is the DoD-supplied honor guard.
If the honor guard started throwing racial epithets, the government would probably take issue with its supplied function being hijacked. Same goes for what the VA supplies.
Nowhere is it saying these are guests of the family, so until shown otherwise, I have to go with the assessment that they are there at the behest of the VA. The VA has associations with these groups, and they will perform services when asked, so the VA does ask of them on occasion. But if they are there at the request of the VA then the VA is responsible for any offense they give.
Religion is divisive, so it is only natural that the VA would ask that these groups leave out mention of such things.

no its not only natural you twit! the vet earned those benefits, what is said at his or her memorial is none of the governments business. the honor guard only only act as pallbearers, flag folders and plays taps. they do not speak until they present the flag to the family. they are guest because they are invited by the family. also unless you are near a military installation the honor guard is normally the local VFW or american legion post who does it. the clergy is normally from the deceased church not "government supplied"

when people like you start talking bullshit about stuff they have no experience or knowledge of really pisses me off. the vets earned it and YOU and the piece of trash in houston have no right to limit what is said at their funeral period. fuck you.

im getting really sick and tired of fucktwats like you and your ilk who have nothing better to do than to stick your nose into somebody's private affair and trashing our military.

 

[OutHouse]

I thought the Constitution was written to prevent the establishment of an official religion or the persecution of a specific religion. How does a prayer at a funeral fall under either of those auspices?

freedom of speech?

how in the fuck do you even think that a prayer at a funeral goes against the constitution??? are you really that dumb? the dipshit in Houston just trampled all over the rights of the vet and his family by LIMITING their speech. that goes against everything the Constitution is all about.

 

[MagickMan]

Have to agree, this does go against the First Amendment. I almost see a government official not saying anything religious at this type of event, but to not allow private citizens to make comments of a religious nature at a veteran's funeral is beyond absurd.

Our tax dollars pay for chaplains in the armed forces AND pay for church and temple facilities at military bases. If a citizen can't pray or use the words God or Jesus at a memorial service in a veteran's cemetery, how do chaplains get away with doing Sunday/Sabbath services on federal land?

 

[lupi]

'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America