Deneb launch dates

[thilanliyan]

http://www.hkepc.com/2044

Phenom II X4 945 3.0GHz 8MB Deneb AM3 Apr, 2009
Phenom II X4 940 3.0GHz 8MB Deneb AM2+ 8th, Jan
Phenom II X4 925 2.8GHz 8MB Deneb AM3 Feb, 2009
Phenom II X4 920 2.8GHz 8MB Deneb AM2+ 8th, Jan
Phenom II X4 910 2.6GHz 8MB Deneb AM3 Feb, 2009
Phenom II X4 810 2.6GHz 6MB Deneb AM3 Feb, 2009
Phenom II X4 805 2.5GHz 6MB Deneb AM3 Feb, 2009
Phenom II X3 720 2.8GHz 7.5MB Heka AM3 Feb, 2009
Phenom II X3 710 2.6GHz 7.5MB Heka AM3 Feb, 2009
Athlon X4 615 2.7GHz 2MB Propus AM3 Apr, 2009
Athlon X4 605 2.5GHz 2MB Propus AM3 Apr, 2009
Athlon X3 420 2.8GHz 1.5MB Rana AM3 Apr, 2009
Athlon X3 410 2.6GHz 1.5MB Rana AM3 Apr, 2009
Athlon X2 240 2.8GHz 2MB Regor AM3 Jun, 2009
Athlon X2 235 2.7GHz 2Mb Regor AM3 Jun, 2009

Some other site said the Am2+ ones will only have 6mb cache...

 

[Martimus]

I wonder why the X4 945 is being released in April? All the other AM3 Deneb chips are being released in February. I wonder if this means they are releasing it as a FX chip, and need the extra time to give board makers time to produce a new FX setup?

 

[Idontcare]

Those must be "total cache" listings, as in L2$ + L3$. Is that true? So the 6MB cache parts will have 4MB L3$?

3GHz AM3 in Apr...must be an indication as to what is limiting the AM3/DDR3 validation process for the parts to be delayed by a month or more to begin with. Speedpath? April would be right for a new stepping to exit the fab plus validation time before release. Just a guess, I know nothing.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Yes they are total cache.

 

[dennilfloss]

When I upgrade from the system listed in my sig, what would the differences between the AM2+ 940 and AM3 945 and how would these affect cost & gaming performance?

I.e. I will upgrade my CPU for gaming (otherwise my current CPU is good enough) and will a 945 perform much better than a 940. Moreover, that CPU upgrade will last about 2-3 years before the next round as this is the turnover rate my meager finances allow.)

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Yes they are total cache.

Thanks for confirming.

BTW if anyone is interested here is the google translated to english version of the hkepc article.

 

[Philippart]

here's some more info in german, might be easier to understand, probably also easier for google translate

http://www.computerbase.de/new...45-nm-prozessoren_amd/

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Philippart
here's some more info in german, might be easier to understand, probably also easier for google translate

http://www.computerbase.de/new...45-nm-prozessoren_amd/

That's weird. They're listing the AM2+ parts as 125W TDP? Wonder why... I thought all Denebs were supposed to be 95W TDP (or less).

 

[Philippart]

sorry i can't list any sources, but i'm 100% sure that i've read before that the am2+ will be 125w

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Philippart
here's some more info in german, might be easier to understand, probably also easier for google translate

http://www.computerbase.de/new...45-nm-prozessoren_amd/

That's weird. They're listing the AM2+ parts as 125W TDP? Wonder why... I thought all Denebs were supposed to be 95W TDP (or less).

you are thinking of shanghai which the initial release were all 95W...deneb will be 125W.

 

[Cookie Monster]

AM3 deneb will be 95W TDP. AM2+ will be 125W TDP. Im guessing that the AM3 deneb is the C3 revision?

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Philippart
here's some more info in german, might be easier to understand, probably also easier for google translate

http://www.computerbase.de/new...45-nm-prozessoren_amd/

That's weird. They're listing the AM2+ parts as 125W TDP? Wonder why... I thought all Denebs were supposed to be 95W TDP (or less).

you are thinking of shanghai which the initial release were all 95W...deneb will be 125W.

No, I was pretty sure that all the 45nm CPU's were supposed to fit into the 95W TDP, with actual ratings more around 60-70W for the lower end stuff. Can't remember where I saw it, but again, probably I'm wrong.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
No, I was pretty sure that all the 45nm CPU's were supposed to fit into the 95W TDP, with actual ratings more around 60-70W for the lower end stuff. Can't remember where I saw it, but again, probably I'm wrong.

Yeah that won't be true because the Shanghai's already released fit the 95W TDP bracket and the SE's (higher TDP) have not been released yet. So when the SE's are released they are going to have to occupy a TDP bracket above 95W by definition of what an SE is and does.

Everything I have read on AM2+ Deneb (granted it is all equally likely to be BS at this point) is that the PII 940 is a 125W TDP part. If this isn't the case then just about everything out there on the PII 940 is wrong (which wouldn't be all that surprising either).

 

[BLaber]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
When I upgrade from the system listed in my sig, what would the differences between the AM2+ 940 and AM3 945 and how would these affect cost & gaming performance?

I.e. I will upgrade my CPU for gaming (otherwise my current CPU is good enough) and will a 945 perform much better than a 940. Moreover, that CPU upgrade will last about 2-3 years before the next round as this is the turnover rate my meager finances allow.)

I read some where DDR3 will add another 5% in performance gain as compaired to PII on AM2+.If I remember correctly some one posted the link at xtremesystem forum's about this.Also TDP is less so more overclcoking room.

 

[Kuzi]

Originally posted by: BLaber
I read some where DDR3 will add another 5% in performance gain as compaired to PII on AM2+.If I remember correctly some one posted the link at xtremesystem forum's about this.Also TDP is less so more overclcoking room.

Maybe in the best case scenarios the AM3 platform with DDR3 will see a 5% improvement in performance, but for most cases it will probably only be around 2-3%.

Like IDC said, my guess is that these AM3 Denebs will be on a new stepping, especially the Phenom II 945 that will be released in April. I'm not sure if it's possible but I'm thinking it might be a 95W part running at 3GHz.

 

[Philippart]

Originally posted by: BLaber

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
When I upgrade from the system listed in my sig, what would the differences between the AM2+ 940 and AM3 945 and how would these affect cost & gaming performance?

I.e. I will upgrade my CPU for gaming (otherwise my current CPU is good enough) and will a 945 perform much better than a 940. Moreover, that CPU upgrade will last about 2-3 years before the next round as this is the turnover rate my meager finances allow.)

I read some where DDR3 will add another 5% in performance gain as compaired to PII on AM2+.If I remember correctly some one posted the link at xtremesystem forum's about this.Also TDP is less so more overclcoking room.

Yes, I saw that article too, which split the deneb improvements in parts.

To me it will be almost no difference, like DDR to DDR2 on the Athlon 64, although "subjectively" I noticed that windows and all kinds of software got a bit snappier

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Philippart

Originally posted by: BLaber

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
When I upgrade from the system listed in my sig, what would the differences between the AM2+ 940 and AM3 945 and how would these affect cost & gaming performance?

I.e. I will upgrade my CPU for gaming (otherwise my current CPU is good enough) and will a 945 perform much better than a 940. Moreover, that CPU upgrade will last about 2-3 years before the next round as this is the turnover rate my meager finances allow.)

I read some where DDR3 will add another 5% in performance gain as compaired to PII on AM2+.If I remember correctly some one posted the link at xtremesystem forum's about this.Also TDP is less so more overclcoking room.

Yes, I saw that article too, which split the deneb improvements in parts.

To me it will be almost no difference, like DDR to DDR2 on the Athlon 64, although "subjectively" I noticed that windows and all kinds of software got a bit snappier

I have not seen any benches on DDR3 parts for Deneb, but it seems like one could determiner the relative magnitude of the DDR2 -> DDR3 transition by generating some DDR2 bandwidth scaling vs. performance data and then extrapolating the performance results one would get were the AM2+ DDR2 systems scaled in bandwidth to the levels expected for a DDR3 AM3 system.

You can bet the memory guys are praying to all the gods of marketing that there is something other than a 1-2% performance increase between AM2+ and AM3. The last thing they want is the consumer not feeling like their DDR3 purchase was worth the premium over DDR2.

 

[dennilfloss]

And what would be the price difference in memory for that meager 1-2% performance increase? Will AM3 mobos cost the same as AM2 mainboards?

 

[evilbix]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Philippart
here's some more info in german, might be easier to understand, probably also easier for google translate

http://www.computerbase.de/new...45-nm-prozessoren_amd/

That's weird. They're listing the AM2+ parts as 125W TDP? Wonder why... I thought all Denebs were supposed to be 95W TDP (or less).

you are thinking of shanghai which the initial release were all 95W...deneb will be 125W.

No, I was pretty sure that all the 45nm CPU's were supposed to fit into the 95W TDP, with actual ratings more around 60-70W for the lower end stuff. Can't remember where I saw it, but again, probably I'm wrong.

The AM2+ denebs will be 125W because of the IMC. Once they jump over to AM3 the new IMC is supposed to drop it to 95W from my understanding.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Philippart

Originally posted by: BLaber

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
When I upgrade from the system listed in my sig, what would the differences between the AM2+ 940 and AM3 945 and how would these affect cost & gaming performance?

I.e. I will upgrade my CPU for gaming (otherwise my current CPU is good enough) and will a 945 perform much better than a 940. Moreover, that CPU upgrade will last about 2-3 years before the next round as this is the turnover rate my meager finances allow.)

I read some where DDR3 will add another 5% in performance gain as compaired to PII on AM2+.If I remember correctly some one posted the link at xtremesystem forum's about this.Also TDP is less so more overclcoking room.

Yes, I saw that article too, which split the deneb improvements in parts.

To me it will be almost no difference, like DDR to DDR2 on the Athlon 64, although "subjectively" I noticed that windows and all kinds of software got a bit snappier

I think (which is always dangerous) K10 gains were best seen in upping the IMC/NB so I will assume this will also apply to DDR2 ---> DDR3.

Improvements in 'synthetic' benchies, I/O, latencies. bandwidth, etc., weren't 1:1 but IIRC it was pretty impressive - something like a 10% increase in NB MHz would improve latencies and bandwidth 6-7% or so percent.

So the stock spec (not sure these #'s are correct) for the Phenom 940 AM2+ NB will be 1.8 GHz. Phenom 945 AM3 NB will be 2400 MHz stock spec.

IIRC the rule of thumb from DDR ---> DDR2 was (because of reduced timings) equal performance would be gained from '1 step up' in clock speed (let's say DDR 400MHz = DDR2 533MHz). So if that same 'rule of thumb' generally applies DDR2 1066MHz would be roughly equal to DDR3 1333MHz.

And the big leaps in memory performance will come from the boost in IMC/NB speeds.

I hope this made sense - I think I even confused myself

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: evilbix

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Philippart
here's some more info in german, might be easier to understand, probably also easier for google translate

http://www.computerbase.de/new...45-nm-prozessoren_amd/

That's weird. They're listing the AM2+ parts as 125W TDP? Wonder why... I thought all Denebs were supposed to be 95W TDP (or less).

you are thinking of shanghai which the initial release were all 95W...deneb will be 125W.

No, I was pretty sure that all the 45nm CPU's were supposed to fit into the 95W TDP, with actual ratings more around 60-70W for the lower end stuff. Can't remember where I saw it, but again, probably I'm wrong.

The AM2+ denebs will be 125W because of the IMC. Once they jump over to AM3 the new IMC is supposed to drop it to 95W from my understanding.

In that case I dont see these first Denebs being great ocers at all....Be like ocing an older C0 stepping Kentsfield...they will top out on air around 3.5-3.6ghz...will definitely need water to get to 4ghz....

I know...I know...AMD bases TDP on max load versus Intels method so perhaps 3.7-3.8ghz on air....I see yorkfields still being better in this first phase...

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: evilbix

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Philippart
here's some more info in german, might be easier to understand, probably also easier for google translate

http://www.computerbase.de/new...45-nm-prozessoren_amd/

That's weird. They're listing the AM2+ parts as 125W TDP? Wonder why... I thought all Denebs were supposed to be 95W TDP (or less).

you are thinking of shanghai which the initial release were all 95W...deneb will be 125W.

No, I was pretty sure that all the 45nm CPU's were supposed to fit into the 95W TDP, with actual ratings more around 60-70W for the lower end stuff. Can't remember where I saw it, but again, probably I'm wrong.

The AM2+ denebs will be 125W because of the IMC. Once they jump over to AM3 the new IMC is supposed to drop it to 95W from my understanding.

I find it hard to believe that a memory controler alone can be tuned to eliminate 30 watts of power. Let's say they could get 50% power improvement, that would mean the AM2+ controller is consuming 60 watts.

That's pretty unlikely.

 

[evilbix]

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Originally posted by: evilbix

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Philippart
here's some more info in german, might be easier to understand, probably also easier for google translate

http://www.computerbase.de/new...45-nm-prozessoren_amd/

That's weird. They're listing the AM2+ parts as 125W TDP? Wonder why... I thought all Denebs were supposed to be 95W TDP (or less).

you are thinking of shanghai which the initial release were all 95W...deneb will be 125W.

No, I was pretty sure that all the 45nm CPU's were supposed to fit into the 95W TDP, with actual ratings more around 60-70W for the lower end stuff. Can't remember where I saw it, but again, probably I'm wrong.

The AM2+ denebs will be 125W because of the IMC. Once they jump over to AM3 the new IMC is supposed to drop it to 95W from my understanding.

I find it hard to believe that a memory controler alone can be tuned to eliminate 30 watts of power. Let's say they could get 50% power improvement, that would mean the AM2+ controller is consuming 60 watts.

That's pretty unlikely.

When AMD went from 939 to AM2 the X2 went from 110W to 89W, and I don't believe there was a shrink involved in that process. So 30W with a shrink is fairly reasonable.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Originally posted by: evilbix



The AM2+ denebs will be 125W because of the IMC. Once they jump over to AM3 the new IMC is supposed to drop it to 95W from my understanding.

I find it hard to believe that a memory controler alone can be tuned to eliminate 30 watts of power. Let's say they could get 50% power improvement, that would mean the AM2+ controller is consuming 60 watts.

That's pretty unlikely.

Just because the published TDP changes 30W, doesn't mean that the actual power difference is 30W. the PhII 940 could easily be 105W, but since it is higher than the 95W limit for that range of processor, they binned it at the next higher TDP range (125W).

Beyond that, the PhII 945 isn't scheduled until April, so the AM3 component at 3GHz may need a new stepping to get down to 95W.

Edit: Fixed the date. I guess my reading comprehension isn't the greatest.

 

[RaptureMe]

hope the 940/945 are nice and cheap I would really like to get my hands on one of these for a HTPC and maybe some oc'ing..but apr-jun dang might have to get another C2Q I hate waiting seeing on how I thought they were releasing them between now and jan??