Dems blame Pres. Bush for job losses

[Riprorin]

Most of the job loses under Pres. Bush's watch came in the first year of his administration. It's rather silly to blame him for that particularly in light of 9/11, the stock market bubble , and the dot com bust.

The critisism of Pres. Bush's handling of the economy is particularly silly as we are experiencing the biggest economic expanision in 20 years and we've added 1.2 M jobs already this year.

And don't forget, only 1 out of 20 Amercican are jobless.

Seems to me that the Dems better find another drum to beat.

 

[conjur]

Biggest economic expansion in 20 years?


Well....if you consider mainly lower-paying and part-time jobs as an expansion, sure. If you consider corporations making the profit and wages staying low, sure.

 

[Sternfan]

Originally posted by: conjur
Biggest economic expansion in 20 years?


Well....if you consider mainly lower-paying and part-time jobs as an expansion, sure. If you consider corporations making the profit and wages staying low, sure.

That?s just another lie, every report I have seen states salaries are up for just about everyone, sure there is always the horror story about some guy who made $100,000 and now he is flipping burgers but for most of us we are making more. Keep spreading your lies.

 

[alchemize]

I'm making 24% more than I did in 2000. I have, however, seen wages decrease for some of my more "techie" peers. Simply supply and demand. That, and the techies did themselves a disservice by holding corporations hostage over Y2K, and a little payback has been doled out. It's turning around though. You won't find Admins making 75K to surf the internet anymore, but maybe if they decide to work for a living and add value to the company, they can make 60K.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Sternfan

Originally posted by: conjur
Biggest economic expansion in 20 years?


Well....if you consider mainly lower-paying and part-time jobs as an expansion, sure. If you consider corporations making the profit and wages staying low, sure.

That?s just another lie, every report I have seen states salaries are up for just about everyone, sure there is always the horror story about some guy who made $100,000 and now he is flipping burgers but for most of us we are making more. Keep spreading your lies.

Yeah...that $0.37/hr. raise over a year's span is really going to make a big difference!

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t16.htm

Total private........................... $15.27 $15.55 $15.59 $15.64

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Sternfan

Originally posted by: conjur
Biggest economic expansion in 20 years?


Well....if you consider mainly lower-paying and part-time jobs as an expansion, sure. If you consider corporations making the profit and wages staying low, sure.

That?s just another lie, every report I have seen states salaries are up for just about everyone, sure there is always the horror story about some guy who made $100,000 and now he is flipping burgers but for most of us we are making more. Keep spreading your lies.

Yeah...that $0.37/hr. raise over a year's span is really going to make a big difference!

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t16.htm

Total private........................... $15.27 $15.55 $15.59 $15.64

What was the rate of inflation last year?

CkG

 

[conjur]

About 2%

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur
About 2%

And that $.37/hr raise you blew off is what %?

CkG

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: conjur
About 2%

I think that it was a bit less than that but regardless, incomes are going up above the rate of inflation.

That's a bad thing in your view?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: conjur
Biggest economic expansion in 20 years?


Well....if you consider mainly lower-paying and part-time jobs as an expansion, sure. If you consider corporations making the profit and wages staying low, sure.

only wages are rising faster than inflation....
Evil Corperate profit means news projects and new spending..and new hiring....

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: conjur
About 2%

I think that it was a bit less than that but regardless, incomes are going up above the rate of inflation.

That's a bad thing in your view?

Well, 2.4% is above 2% but hardly enough to allow workers to make any headway.

Also, consider this, that 2.4% increase in wages in a year is $0.37/hr. Assuming a full 2080 work year, that's only $770.

Now, let's look at some obvious facts. The price of gas has risen dramatically in the last year. The prices of new cars are going up. The cost of tuitions are rising much faster than inflation. The price of healthcare is rising much faster than inflation. The price of milk has doubled in some areas. Workers are paying higher insurance premiums that eat into their wages, too.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: conjur
About 2%

I think that it was a bit less than that but regardless, incomes are going up above the rate of inflation.

That's a bad thing in your view?

Well, 2.4% is above 2% but hardly enough to allow workers to make any headway.

Also, consider this, that 2.4% increase in wages in a year is $0.37/hr. Assuming a full 2080 work year, that's only $770.

Now, let's look at some obvious facts. The price of gas has risen dramatically in the last year. The prices of new cars are going up. The cost of tuitions are rising much faster than inflation. The price of healthcare is rising much faster than inflation. The price of milk has doubled in some areas. Workers are paying higher insurance premiums that eat into their wages, too.

Yes, but average wages are not falling behind. You get better wages, by getting better jobs. A checker at walmart is going to paid less than someone with any skills at all. It only takes a little education to really boost your income.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: conjur
About 2%

I think that it was a bit less than that but regardless, incomes are going up above the rate of inflation.

That's a bad thing in your view?

Well, 2.4% is above 2% but hardly enough to allow workers to make any headway.

Also, consider this, that 2.4% increase in wages in a year is $0.37/hr. Assuming a full 2080 work year, that's only $770.

Now, let's look at some obvious facts. The price of gas has risen dramatically in the last year. The prices of new cars are going up. The cost of tuitions are rising much faster than inflation. The price of healthcare is rising much faster than inflation. The price of milk has doubled in some areas. Workers are paying higher insurance premiums that eat into their wages, too.

Yes, but average wages are not falling behind

Yeah..$0.37/hr is really going to make a difference.

You get better wages, by getting better jobs. A checker at walmart is going to paid less than someone with any skills at all. It only takes a little education to really boost your income.

True...but that's not happening, is it?

Otherwise, wages would be rising more quickly.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: conjur
About 2%

I think that it was a bit less than that but regardless, incomes are going up above the rate of inflation.

That's a bad thing in your view?

Well, 2.4% is above 2% but hardly enough to allow workers to make any headway.

Also, consider this, that 2.4% increase in wages in a year is $0.37/hr. Assuming a full 2080 work year, that's only $770.

Now, let's look at some obvious facts. The price of gas has risen dramatically in the last year. The prices of new cars are going up. The cost of tuitions are rising much faster than inflation. The price of healthcare is rising much faster than inflation. The price of milk has doubled in some areas. Workers are paying higher insurance premiums that eat into their wages, too.

Yes, but average wages are not falling behind. You get better wages, by getting better jobs. A checker at walmart is going to paid less than someone with any skills at all. It only takes a little education to really boost your income.

True...but that's not happening, is it?

Otherwise, wages would be rising more quickly.

The job market is not static, new workers come in, more talented workers move up, old workers leave.
I used to work minimum wage jobs and got .25/year raises, but now I have highly marketable skills and can get better raises, or I get a better job.

Changing jobs is often the quickest way to boost your salary.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: conjur
About 2%

I think that it was a bit less than that but regardless, incomes are going up above the rate of inflation.

That's a bad thing in your view?

Well, 2.4% is above 2% but hardly enough to allow workers to make any headway.

Also, consider this, that 2.4% increase in wages in a year is $0.37/hr. Assuming a full 2080 work year, that's only $770.

Now, let's look at some obvious facts. The price of gas has risen dramatically in the last year. The prices of new cars are going up. The cost of tuitions are rising much faster than inflation. The price of healthcare is rising much faster than inflation. The price of milk has doubled in some areas. Workers are paying higher insurance premiums that eat into their wages, too.

Yes, but average wages are not falling behind. You get better wages, by getting better jobs. A checker at walmart is going to paid less than someone with any skills at all. It only takes a little education to really boost your income.

True...but that's not happening, is it?

Otherwise, wages would be rising more quickly.

The job market is not static, new workers come in, more talented workers move up, old workers leave.
I used to work minimum wage jobs and got .25/year raises, but now I have highly marketable skills and can get better raises, or I get a better job.

Changing jobs is often the quickest way to boost your salary.

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/eci.echistry.txt

Doesn't seem like we're in the best expansion in 20 years

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: conjur
Biggest economic expansion in 20 years?


Well....if you consider mainly lower-paying and part-time jobs as an expansion, sure. If you consider corporations making the profit and wages staying low, sure.

This is a classic example of pessimism.

Oh all the new jobs are just part time jobs flipping burgers...well my goodness McDonalds, BK and Wendys must be doing darn good.

Would you rather have more job loss? Would you rather have a 10 percent unemployment rate like Europe? Would you like to pay most of your income in taxes so that you could support that 10 percent?

My goodness, this all has to start somewhere...I would rather have a slow and stable recovery than a unsustainable one that creates another recession or worse a depression.

You want American manufacturing jobs? Buy an American made car....buy as many goods that are made in America you can....they may cost more, but sacrifice quantity of matierial goods with some pride in knowing you are supporting your country.

Ours is a nation of supply and demand....if you are going to use your shopping dollar and buy goods from China, guess where you are providing jobs at?

My car was made in Delaware, where was yours?

Take personal action and let change begin with you...tell your friends.

Granted everything isn't made in America...but build the economy buy choosing Made in America.

You know I haven't seen any "buy american" ads on TV in many years.

Oh and back to flipping burgers...as long as the beef is raised in America...theres jobs there too...

Oh and back to flipping burgers...as long as the burger stand isn't raisng their own cattle, then a truck driver needs haul that beef and if thats in America...theres jobs too....

Oh and back to flipping burgers...as long as those burger stands are built in America theres jobs there too...

Oh and back to flipping burgers...as long as the roads that are built to get to the burger stands are built in America theres jobs there too.

Oh and back to flipping burgers...as long as the electricity those burgers stands are using is generated in America theres jobs there too.

Oh and back to flipping burgers...as long as the grease fire is put out by a Fire Department thats in America there jobs there too.

See...you all make the point that the economic expansion is just flipping burgers, but guess what...alot of that doesnt get done without a huge support structure in place.

I can substitute the burger stand with Wal-Mart, KMart, Shopko, etc etc...and the truth is that if the burger stands and the walmarts of this country are doing well...there is a whole support structure that has to be doing well to.

The next time you go to McDonalds and buy that Quarter Pounder with Cheese....believe in the power your purchase truly makes.

 

[GoPackGo]

Oh I forgot to add that as long as you have your heart attack in America from eating too many of those Quarter Pounder with Cheeses....theres jobs there too!!!

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: conjur
About 2%

I think that it was a bit less than that but regardless, incomes are going up above the rate of inflation.

That's a bad thing in your view?

Well, 2.4% is above 2% but hardly enough to allow workers to make any headway.

Also, consider this, that 2.4% increase in wages in a year is $0.37/hr. Assuming a full 2080 work year, that's only $770.

Now, let's look at some obvious facts. The price of gas has risen dramatically in the last year. The prices of new cars are going up. The cost of tuitions are rising much faster than inflation. The price of healthcare is rising much faster than inflation. The price of milk has doubled in some areas. Workers are paying higher insurance premiums that eat into their wages, too.

Yes, but average wages are not falling behind. You get better wages, by getting better jobs. A checker at walmart is going to paid less than someone with any skills at all. It only takes a little education to really boost your income.

True...but that's not happening, is it?

Otherwise, wages would be rising more quickly.

The job market is not static, new workers come in, more talented workers move up, old workers leave.
I used to work minimum wage jobs and got .25/year raises, but now I have highly marketable skills and can get better raises, or I get a better job.

Changing jobs is often the quickest way to boost your salary.

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/eci.echistry.txt

Doesn't seem like we're in the best expansion in 20 years

That's a pretty broad link you posted - care to point out what you think shows it isn't?

CkG

 

[conjur]

Just look at the percentage changes. Manufacturing employment costs show good signs but the other areas don't show us anywhere near "the biggest economic expanision in 20 years"

 

[Jhhnn]

Ahh, Conjur, you're currently the recipient of Bushian logic- any assertion make in support of current economic policy needs no proof or substantiation whasoever- mere assertion is proof enough in support of our beloved prez and ongoing bait and switch economics.

Got any links to your original assertions, Riprorin, or are you just trying to pump sunshine up our collective skirts?

 

[heartsurgeon]

he title of this thread could be made more succinct:

instead of "Dems blame Pres. Bush for job losses"

why not just "Dems blame Pres. Bush"

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Ahh, Conjur, you're currently the recipient of Bushian logic- any assertion make in support of current economic policy needs no proof or substantiation whasoever- mere assertion is proof enough in support of our beloved prez and ongoing bait and switch economics.

Got any links to your original assertions, Riprorin, or are you just trying to pump sunshine up our collective skirts?

?Tax cuts work. If the great American growth experiment tells us nothing else, it is that if you throw everything you have at an economy at an early enough stage, it will eventually respond. It may have taken one of the most aggressive monetary policy decisions in history and billions of dollars in tax reductions, but the go-for-growth strategy has succeeded. America's policymakers have not only steered their country away from deflation, they have delivered the best economic performance the US has seen for 20 years.? (Op-ed by Patience Wheatcroft, The Times (London), 10/31/03)

?America's economic report card was released Thursday and it was nothing short of stunning. The U.S. economy grew 7.2 percent in the third quarter, a pace not seen in nearly 20 years. Equally impressive and, let's hope, a long-awaited harbinger that the job drought is about to end, business investment grew more than 15 percent, double the rate of the previous quarter. When businesses spend that kind of money on equipment, it means they've decided this recovery is for real. They're ready to crank up and start hiring again.? (Editorial, Chicago Tribune, 10/31/03)


?The 7.2% growth rate that the Commerce Department has measured for the American economy in the third quarter of 2003 is stronger than anything ever achieved under President Clinton's boom. It is being attributed by President Bush to tax cuts. ... And it stands to reason. The tax reductions on capital gains and dividends, along with the accelerated reductions in personal income tax rates, were signed by President Bush on May 28, 2003.? (Editorial, The New York Sun, 10/31/03)

"Now it's impossible to deny. The economy is in recovery. And that recovery is robust. I mention this because as recently as a few weeks ago, some of President Bush's most prominent bashers were claiming that we were in "the worst economy since Herbert Hoover." That's a little difficult, even for them, to say with a straight face when we've just finished our best quarter since the fourth year of President Reagan. First, exactly how big is 7.2% growth in economic terms? It is very big. It's about twice as large an increase in national wealth as President Clinton's average annual growth rate, 3.6%, and two-and-a-half times the rate of growth of Mr. Clinton's first 11 quarters, 2.9%.? (Op-ed by Jerry Bowyer, The New York Sun, 10/31/03)

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: conjur
Just look at the percentage changes. Manufacturing employment costs show good signs but the other areas don't show us anywhere near "the biggest economic expanision in 20 years"

Care to point some areas you dont think are expanding fast enough, and compare those to the expansion in early 90s and early 80s?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Ahh, Conjur, you're currently the recipient of Bushian logic- any assertion make in support of current economic policy needs no proof or substantiation whasoever- mere assertion is proof enough in support of our beloved prez and ongoing bait and switch economics.

Got any links to your original assertions, Riprorin, or are you just trying to pump sunshine up our collective skirts?

Current GDP numbers and unemployment claims support his claims.

 

[heartsurgeon]

NPR and the NYT's admit the recovery is in full swing, and that job creation has rebounded nicely. the canard about "good paying jobs" will soon be replaced by "lacking benefits" and finally the librals will start braying about there old favorites..."the jobs don't provide adequate daycare facilities" or "the jobs don't provide same-sex benefits!"


yada yada yada...

they will never be satisfied that things are better, because that admission precludes them getting elected and back into power!!