Dems, are we going to lose again?

[mattpegher]

Now I have nothing against the first black or the first woman president. I am just worried that we may lose the presidency due to a split. I'm not sure Obama is a strong enough candidate to woo the democratic white vote not to mention the swing vote/independents. On the otherhand, Clinton turns a lot of people off, its not that she is a woman, its her personality. I liked Bill, he had charm, intelligence and compassion. I do not doubt Hillary's intelligence, but she seems lacking in the other 2. She just doesn't seem sincere.

Who do we back. I can't take anymore republican underhandedness, holier-than-thou bravado or war mongering/profiteering.

 

[theeedude]

http://www.realclearpolitics.c...resident/national.html

Hillary up over any Republican even with her negatives. At this point people have made up their mind on Hillary, and if she is already up over Rudy and others, she is in very good shape to win, so I am voting for her.

 

[jpeyton]

The mere fact that they're not Republican should be enough to win it.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Now I have nothing against the first black or the first woman president. I am just worried that we may lose the presidency due to a split. I'm not sure Obama is a strong enough candidate to woo the democratic white vote not to mention the swing vote/independents. On the otherhand, Clinton turns a lot of people off, its not that she is a woman, its her personality. I liked Bill, he had charm, intelligence and compassion. I do not doubt Hillary's intelligence, but she seems lacking in the other 2. She just doesn't seem sincere.

Who do we back. I can't take anymore republican underhandedness, holier-than-thou bravado or war mongering/profiteering.

You back the woman you hate because you get a two for one.

Hillary ran the country last time under Bill, this time she would just be on top of Bill.

 

[Moonbeam]

The fact that Obama is black is meaningless to me. I see an American.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The mere fact that they're not Republican should be enough to win it.

If democrats enter the election with that mindset, they are in trouble. Republicans havent disappeared, they are just pissed off at their party. Having Hillary on the dem ticket will probably be enough to re-energize them. You dems seem to be caught off guard every election on just how effective the Republican party machine can be come election time. I'd suggest you dont make the same mistake yet again.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The mere fact that they're not Republican should be enough to win it.

Because that strategy worked so well the last time...

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The mere fact that they're not Republican should be enough to win it.

If democrats enter the election with that mindset, they are in trouble. Republicans havent disappeared, they are just pissed off at their party. Having Hillary on the dem ticket will probably be enough to re-energize them. You dems seem to be caught off guard every election on just how effective the Republican party machine can be come election time. I'd suggest you dont make the same mistake yet again.

In 2004, a majority of American's still thought invading Iraq was a good idea. A majority thought we should stay until the mission is finished. A majority felt that changing President's during an ongoing conflict was a bad idea.

In 2007, every notion that the 2004 electorate had has been turned on its head. I don't see a Republican having a chance unless he's overtly anti-war.

 

[mattpegher]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The fact that Obama is black is meaningless to me. I see an American.

I agree, but will enough white Dems agree with us.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The mere fact that they're not Republican should be enough to win it.

Because that strategy worked so well the last time...

In 2004, we probably turned the first "corner" in Iraq. The electorate still had faith.

In 2007, we've turned more corners than a race at Talladega.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: mattpegher

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The fact that Obama is black is meaningless to me. I see an American.

I agree, but will enough white Dems agree with us.

It's inconceivable to me there would not be.

 

[brandonb]

Originally posted by: mattpegher

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The fact that Obama is black is meaningless to me. I see an American.

I agree, but will enough white Dems agree with us.

Obama doesn't have much experience, touts things which are unrealistic such as universal health care, and seems to be a visionary. Bush is a visionary too, and we know how he worked out. A horrible president. That alone should scare anybody away from Obama.

Will he be elected? Yes... Why? Because he's black and nothing else.

 

[alchemize]

Nothing will motivate the republican base more than Hillary. Contrary to public opinion, there just aren't that many racists left any more, and many of them don't vote. Those that do, don't vote democrat.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The mere fact that they're not Republican should be enough to win it.

Well, if there was ever a time that was true, it's now.

Still, the potential nominees suck. Obama's ONLY point of noteworthiness is his color. I can't think if any other reason to...wait who are we talking about? Yep, he's totally forgettable. Hillary is vehemently detested by Republicans, like viscerally turning them off at the genetic level, and isn't really a bit star for many dems.

The election will lean Dem unless something weird happens in the next year, though. Still, their nominees suck, but then the republican ones are pretty bad, too. Rudy is a buffoon, potentially in fact as bad as Bush.

Nothing will motivate the republican base more than Hillary.

I have thought this before she even was anything more than a rumor, years ago. The word Clinton actually melts the skin off Republicans (I've seen this in person). You can see their knees shake and their body visibly weaken. If she became president, half of the South would weep for a century and the other half would probably spontaneously explode on the spot. She is detested and loathed.

I like her simply because I like Bill. He was more of a president, even while getting serviced in the oval office, than Bush ever could be and he will be able to influence Hillary to a degree.

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Now I have nothing against the first black or the first woman president. I am just worried that we may lose the presidency due to a split. I'm not sure Obama is a strong enough candidate to woo the democratic white vote not to mention the swing vote/independents. On the otherhand, Clinton turns a lot of people off, its not that she is a woman, its her personality. I do not doubt Hillary's intelligence, but she seems lacking in the other 2. She just doesn't seem sincere.

Who do we back. I can't take anymore republican underhandedness, holier-than-thou bravado or war mongering/profiteering.

Rut Roh.

A Democrat has finally figured out that you have to run electable candidates! Run for the hills!

I liked Bill, he had charm, intelligence and compassion.

Monica?

Is that you?

Hillary ran the country last time under Bill, this time she would just be on top of Bill.

Strange seeing Bill's wife on top of Bill.

 

[2Xtreme21]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Now I have nothing against the first black or the first woman president. I am just worried that we may lose the presidency due to a split. I'm not sure Obama is a strong enough candidate to woo the democratic white vote not to mention the swing vote/independents. On the otherhand, Clinton turns a lot of people off, its not that she is a woman, its her personality. I do not doubt Hillary's intelligence, but she seems lacking in the other 2. She just doesn't seem sincere.

Who do we back. I can't take anymore republican underhandedness, holier-than-thou bravado or war mongering/profiteering.

Rut Roh.

A Democrat has finally figured out that you have to run electable candidates! Run for the hills!

I liked Bill, he had charm, intelligence and compassion.

Monica?

Is that you?

Hillary ran the country last time under Bill, this time she would just be on top of Bill.

Strange seeing Bill's wife on top of Bill.

He didn't run the country into the ground like our current great leader.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The mere fact that they're not Republican should be enough to win it.

Well, if there was ever a time that was true, it's now.

Still, the potential nominees suck. Obama's ONLY point of noteworthiness is his color. I can't think if any other reason to...wait who are we talking about? Yep, he's totally forgettable. Hillary is vehemently detested by Republicans, like viscerally turning them off at the genetic level, and isn't really a bit star for many dems.

The election will lean Dem unless something weird happens in the next year, though. Still, their nominees suck, but then the republican ones are pretty bad, too. Rudy is a buffoon, potentially in fact as bad as Bush.

Nothing will motivate the republican base more than Hillary.

I have thought this before she even was anything more than a rumor, years ago. The word Clinton actually melts the skin off Republicans (I've seen this in person). You can see their knees shake and their body visibly weaken. If she became president, half of the South would weep for a century and the other half would probably spontaneously explode on the spot. She is detested and loathed.

I like her simply because I like Bill. He was more of a president, even while getting serviced in the oval office, than Bush ever could be and he will be able to influence Hillary to a degree.

You know, after thinking about it, a pure opportunist, such as Bill Clinton, isnt such a bad thing. I guess if you always have your finger up in the air feeling the political winds, you just do what the people want. Hopefully if Hillary gets in the white house, she'll do just that.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Now I have nothing against the first black or the first woman president. I am just worried that we may lose the presidency due to a split. I'm not sure Obama is a strong enough candidate to woo the democratic white vote not to mention the swing vote/independents. On the otherhand, Clinton turns a lot of people off, its not that she is a woman, its her personality. I do not doubt Hillary's intelligence, but she seems lacking in the other 2. She just doesn't seem sincere.

Who do we back. I can't take anymore republican underhandedness, holier-than-thou bravado or war mongering/profiteering.

Rut Roh.

A Democrat has finally figured out that you have to run electable candidates! Run for the hills!

I liked Bill, he had charm, intelligence and compassion.

Monica?

Is that you?

Hillary ran the country last time under Bill, this time she would just be on top of Bill.

Strange seeing Bill's wife on top of Bill.

More republican ignorance.

 

[Deudalus]

He didn't run the country into the ground like our current great leader.

This is a common fallacy of the left though and this is exactly why you continue to lose The White House.

You think "ooh someone doesn't like our candidates they must be an evangelical christian Bush supporter!" The fact is I'm a social Democrat, economic Republican and I couldn't vote for any of the Democratic candidates.

I supported Clinton on both of his terms and was a Gore supporter in 2000. Since then the Republicans get my vote because the more the Democrats lose the further to the left they move.

The overly vocal "moveon.org minority" will not get you elected and those of us who used to vote Democrat will not vote for anyone who caters to that crowd. I hate the evangelicals and neo-cons but they will get my vote before "moveon.org" will.

The beauty of the whole thing though is that in an attempt to "defeat Bushies" you have ostracized people like me from your party.



Just ask yourself an honest question. Will the average American sooner vote for Giuliani/Thompson or Hillary/Obama/Edwards?

If you answered the latter 3 then you are what's wrong with the Democratic party.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Yes.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The mere fact that they're not Republican should be enough to win it.

Over the last couple years, I would have agreed with you. But the closer we get to elections, the less electable the democratic candidate become.

 

[StageLeft]

Just ask yourself an honest question. Will the average American sooner vote for Giuliani/Thompson or Hillary/Obama/Edwards?

If you answered the latter 3 then you are what's wrong with the Democratic party.

And if you achknowledge it could be the first two, then that's what's wrong with the country.

Agree about the polarization, though. I remember in the 04 elections how, frankly, @*#(ing whiny the democrats were. I almost couldn't stand most of their popular viewpoints.

 

[Lemon law]

I can't believe this entire thread when it seems to totally ignore the fact that there are a large number of extremely volatile issues that will be in the process of coming out half baked during the rest of 07 and well into 08. And given that six months is regarded as an eternity in politics--we have two and eternities to go before election.

But the two big problems out there are Iraq and Presidential powers. And my guess would be, that well before the primary elections finish, some sort of Iraqi withdrawal plan will be forced on GWB&co. And if Iraq goes out of all control---its largely going to be a question of which party catches the blame from the American public--if the public blames the dems, we will get a Republican Pres in 08---and if the Public blames the repubs---we will get a democratic Pres.

The other big issue that could have the same effect are Presidential power, past GWB scandals being uncovered, or various GWB meltdowns that bite ala Katrina. But the latter three can only work for the dems--and their lack can only have the effect of not killing the GOP chances in 08.

Its way too early---and most of our current Presidential candidates will manage to kill themselves off when they contract a chronic case of hoof in mouth.---and bet on the wrong horse and the wrong idea. But Iraq is the huge huge unknown---and if Iraq blows up or even stays the bungled same---its a no brainer--each party will seek to blame the other---but which version of political spin and revisionist history will the American public buy?--- know that answer to that and you know which party will win the Presidency and congress in 08.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The mere fact that they're not Republican should be enough to win it.

Over the last couple years, I would have agreed with you. But the closer we get to elections, the less electable the democratic candidate become.

Yeah, that line of thinking didn't work in 2004 for the dems. I am not and can not ever be surprised any more when considering who the people will actually cast their votes for. Can never count on the "anyone but a republican" way of thinking.

 

[PingSpike]

Never underestimate the democratic party's ability to fuck it up.